Jump to content


Child Tax Credits - P11D extra income ?


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5237 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi folks,

I have been banging my head against a brick wall, and although having been a member here it has never occured to me to post this question here

So here we go

 

I am claiming child tax credits as a working parent jointly with my OH

for two kids.

I have recently had my 10th anniversary at work which means I am being given private medical care through BUPA for me and my family (that's something everybody gets after 10 years service no matter what their status or income)

Now I thought nothing more of it and have never used this benefit or anything yet.

Anyway, when I got my tax credit renewal pack I noticed that under additional income details they want to know about benefits the employer gives in addition to the salary. They list what they would take into consideration for tax credit benefits and where to find it on the P11D (cash payments, if your employer pays your rent, cash tokens of any kinds and some more samples) Medical insurance is not listed and the location on the P11D is also not listed in their handbook / guidance notes.

So I phoned their helpline and they just said, yes, I have to declare it as it has a cash value and that I have to put down. (£700.-) I said it is not an extra income as I do not have anymore money at the end of the month as you would with the listed benefits of cash tokens, rent payments etc

He just brushed me off and said I had to declare it anyway

Is it correct they can reduce my benefits for something that does not give me extra money at the end of the day ?

If I don't fall ill I wouldn't even be using it

Does anybody know on this one ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi folks,

I have been banging my head against a brick wall, and although having been a member here it has never occured to me to post this question here

So here we go

 

I am claiming child tax credits as a working parent jointly with my OH

for two kids.

I have recently had my 10th anniversary at work which means I am being given private medical care through BUPA for me and my family (that's something everybody gets after 10 years service no matter what their status or income)

Now I thought nothing more of it and have never used this benefit or anything yet.

Anyway, when I got my tax credit renewal pack I noticed that under additional income details they want to know about benefits the employer gives in addition to the salary. They list what they would take into consideration for tax credit benefits and where to find it on the P11D (cash payments, if your employer pays your rent, cash tokens of any kinds and some more samples) Medical insurance is not listed and the location on the P11D is also not listed in their handbook / guidance notes.

So I phoned their helpline and they just said, yes, I have to declare it as it has a cash value and that I have to put down. (£700.-) I said it is not an extra income as I do not have anymore money at the end of the month as you would with the listed benefits of cash tokens, rent payments etc

He just brushed me off and said I had to declare it anyway

Is it correct they can reduce my benefits for something that does not give me extra money at the end of the day ?

If I don't fall ill I wouldn't even be using it

Does anybody know on this one ?

 

Yes, In exactly the same way as you would pay income tax on it. It is a benefit in kind. It does have a cash value (as per the P11D) and you do benefit in that you have private medical insurance for free.

 

The falling ill bit is misleading. What you have is the insurance - you don't wait for the insured event to happen before purchasing any other type of insurance, why think that medical is different?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think it is different in that I do not have any more money at the end of the day or the end of the year which is what child tax credit is supposed to help you with

I have exactly the same amount to live on at the end of the month whether I appear on a list of BUPA members in my company's register or not

If your employer however pays your rent, gives you extra cash or cash tokens of any kind you have that money extra (although you have to pay some tax on it) - I don't have anything extra in my bank account because of it

And in their handbook it states that only certain benefits in kind are taken into consideration for tax credit purposes, for example... (and then they list all sort of cash benefits like rent payments or cash tokens, fuel payments, childcare vouchers) They do not list medical insurance or any insurance of any type as it is not a cash benefit in my understanding, although of course it has some monetary value, this monetary value does not reflect as part of my income at any time

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have answered your query and that is the facts of the matter. The purpose of the Form P11D is for your employers to inform HMRC of all other benefits and apply a cash value to benefits-in-kind. You may not have any extra money in the bank, but you do have the benefit of medical insurance - a benefit that would cost you the amount on your P11D if you paid for it directly yourself. You could say that you do have extra money in the bank because it hasn't been reduced by the amount of the premiums if you had to pay it for yourself.

 

You may not like the answer, but that's the way it is - sorry.

 

Your only other option is to approach your employer and inform them that you do not want this benefit -they are under no obligation to provide anything else (including the cash) in its place though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see why my benefits should be reduced if my income has not increased ?

All the other benefits in kind listed in their guidance notes actually increase your income, this one does not, hence my question.

 

I would never pay for medical insurance myself as I couldn't afford it, it is something that is applied automatically by the company to everybody with 10+ years of service, nothing that has been asked for by me or anybody else with equally long service

 

It would appear that this is by no means a benefit then, because if you are already on a low income you then get taxed to death on it as well and have your benefits cut ? Somehow I can't eat the medical insurance and neither can the kids. It appears ridiculous hence my question.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I get Private health Insurance and also claim Tax Credits for two children.

 

I was told categorically by both Welfare Rights and subsequently the Tax Credits Bods that I DO NOT have to declare this as it is NOT income.

 

The Company (actually a Bank) that i work for give me this benefit and I cannot "opt out" I can simply chose not to use it. Therefore I agree with you Phantom. This is a nonsense.

 

I would suggest you ring the Tax Credit people, but not the usual number. Try this one: 028 9093 9771 - it's a Belfast number and a department called "Customer Compliance". I've found them human, approachable and VERY knowledgeable as it's their job to investigate claims at random. If you really require confirmation of this.

 

But, as it's not on the list. The location of it on the P11D is not listed and I have been told by both the "helpline" and the Compliance people that it is NOT declarable, tells me that I won't be declaring it this year, any more than I have declared it for the past 3 years.

 

I hope this helps.

 

:)

2007 Issues ALL RESOLVED

2008 Issues ALL RESOLVED

£4,200 in charges claimed back succesfully from a total of 5 Creditors

2009 Issues ALL RESOLVED

NEXT Directory - No Agreement, No Further Action **WON**

2010 Issues

Court Claim from Black Horse - AOS 22.11.10, CPR 23.11.10

Assisting Daughter with Employment Tribunal for Wrongful Dismissal/Discrimination

 

:) My Head is officially out of the Sand :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also meant to say.

 

I am sure in your dealings with the telephone "operatives" at HMRC Tax Credits that you have come across being told one thing by one operative and another by another.

 

I'll have a small side bet that if you rang again and asked them what items on a P11D are declarable, they would read from the list (on which Private Health Care does NOT appear) and almost certainly tell you something different, especially if you questioned them.

 

I THINK, although I could be wrong, that often when you mention any type of benefit on the phone to these people they seem to automatically assume it should be included in your Tax Credit Form.

 

I was once told that I had to declare my Disability Living Allowance (over £300 per month) Subsequently I discovered that this was nonsense. Strangely no-one at the Tax Credits office had noticed and informed me that I shouldn't declare it!! (although the lump sum when I pointed out their mistake and they had to repay what I had been "docked" was very welcome;) I think, especially at this time of year (renewal time) there is a lot of mis-information being given out by inexperienced telephone operatives who don't know all the rules.

 

Saying "That is the fact of the matter" does NOT, in my opinion, make someones belief or statement correct, it simply implies that the person is sure of themselves.

 

As am I. However I would advise that you check this out more thoroughly. I on the other hand, I personally have renewed my claim as per usual and have NOT declared my Health Insurance as it is NOT on the list of benefits in the "Notes".

 

:)

2007 Issues ALL RESOLVED

2008 Issues ALL RESOLVED

£4,200 in charges claimed back succesfully from a total of 5 Creditors

2009 Issues ALL RESOLVED

NEXT Directory - No Agreement, No Further Action **WON**

2010 Issues

Court Claim from Black Horse - AOS 22.11.10, CPR 23.11.10

Assisting Daughter with Employment Tribunal for Wrongful Dismissal/Discrimination

 

:) My Head is officially out of the Sand :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest weegirl

I think you're right about this as the reason employers give private health insurance is that it they get their bit out of it too. If you do get sick, they can insist you use and and get back to work sooner, hence the reason a lot of people can't opt out. Similar with free gym membership, encouraging healthy employees. If employers really cared for their staff's feelings they would buy them a holiday every year or give them a free case of booze every month.

Link to post
Share on other sites

EXACTLY weegirl. ;)

2007 Issues ALL RESOLVED

2008 Issues ALL RESOLVED

£4,200 in charges claimed back succesfully from a total of 5 Creditors

2009 Issues ALL RESOLVED

NEXT Directory - No Agreement, No Further Action **WON**

2010 Issues

Court Claim from Black Horse - AOS 22.11.10, CPR 23.11.10

Assisting Daughter with Employment Tribunal for Wrongful Dismissal/Discrimination

 

:) My Head is officially out of the Sand :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...