MFPA vs MBNA

[mfpa]

Do you have a CCJ for this account?

 

No CCJ, no charging order!

 

They are threatening to "pursue a county court action ... and after obtaining a CCJ ... ask the court to issue a charging order".

 

The alleged debt is nearly £6k. They have not replied yet to my CCA request in three and a half months.

 

[kennyparkroad]

thats your defence, the fact they have not complied with the CCA - so even if they did get a CCJ you could get it set aside.

[Jeff2000]

 

They are threatening to "pursue a county court action ... and after obtaining a CCJ ... ask the court to issue a charging order".

 

The alleged debt is nearly £6k. They have not replied yet to my CCA request in three and a half months.

 

 

 

Hi,

 

 

This is probably just bull***t! They are trying to intimidate you! Like Kenny says: No CCA = No CCJ = No charging order!

 

So, if they do start proceedings against you, then you must defend! You will get lots of help from the people on this site if needs be.

 

In the meantime, they are trying to enforce the agreement whilst in default of your CCA request. Therefore it is time to report them to Trading Standards, OFT etc. Include copies of all letters etc with your complaint!

 

You could also send a letter to MBNA, pointing out their misgivings!

 

Something along the lines of:

 

 

I refer to my letters dated xxxxxxxx 2007 which was delivered via recorded delivery to your offices on xxxxxxxxx 2007, and my follow up letter dated xxxxxxxxx 2007.

 

In my letter of I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, fully executed credit agreement for the above numbered xxxxxxxx account under section 77(1) and section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act. In addition a statement of my account should have been sent along with any other document mentioned in the credit agreement.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, Your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on xxxxxxxx 2007 and xxxxxxxx 2007 respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore as at xxxxxxx 2007 this account became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities.

 

 

Good luck, Jeff.

 

 

 

 

[mfpa]

Today I get two letters from MBNA saying:-

October 05,2007

 

Dear Mr ******

 

Account:**** **** **** ****

 

Your outstanding balance due under the above account has been sold to Link Financial-Lin.

 

Link Financial-Lin's address is:

 

PO BOX 30095

 

LONDON

SE1 7WU

 

Tel: 0800 0644499

 

All enquiries regarding this account, including accurate balance information, together with future payments, should be made directly to this company.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Matthew McGrath

Head of customer assistance

 

 

The account numbers given on the letters are 16-digit numbers that match no more than 7 digits of any of my 3 MBNA credit cards.

 

MBNA have only replied to one of the three CCA requests they received in May (see post 4 of this thread) and one of these letters has the right first few digits for that account number.

 

 

[Jeff2000]

Today I get two letters from MBNA saying:-

October 05,2007

 

Dear Mr ******

 

Account:**** **** **** ****

 

Your outstanding balance due under the above account has been sold to Link Financial-Lin.

 

Link Financial-Lin's address is:

 

PO BOX 30095

 

LONDON

SE1 7WU

 

Tel: 0800 0644499

 

All enquiries regarding this account, including accurate balance information, together with future payments, should be made directly to this company.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Matthew McGrath

Head of customer assistance

 

 

The account numbers given on the letters are 16-digit numbers that match no more than 7 digits of any of my 3 MBNA credit cards.

 

MBNA have only replied to one of the three CCA requests they received in May (see post 4 of this thread) and one of these letters has the right first few digits for that account number.

 

 

 

 

Hello mfpa,

 

 

Do you have all of your statements for your accounts yet?

 

 

Jeff.

[mfpa]

 

Do you have all of your statements for your accounts yet?

 

 

No. Having received no reply at all to two of my CCA requests and unsatisfactory reply to the third, I got sidetracked into other things and did not get round to sending SAR. I had better make use of the £10 postal order I have had for five months.

[mfpa]

How's this for b***s***?

 

This relates to a VISA card dating back to mid 1980s, before Girobank was sold to Alliance and Leicester, let alone MBNA acquiring the card business.

 

 

[Jeff2000]

How's this for b***s***?

 

This relates to a VISA card dating back to mid 1980s, before Girobank was sold to Alliance and Leicester, let alone MBNA acquiring the card business.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

 

What a load of rubbish!

 

That's just a generic copy of the T's and C's, if you ask me!

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

[mfpa]

Two letters from Link Financial today, referencing MBNA account numbers that are actually correct.

 

 

One of those accounts they have not replied to my CCA request delivered in May. The other one they sent the "agreement" and recent T&Cs in post 12 of this thread.

 

Obviously, it is not in order for MBNA to pass information about these disputed accounts to third parties, let alone to sell the debt.

[pt2537]

so Link have purchased the debt from MBNA,

 

they will probably try the old "weve purchased the debt but non of the responsibilities under s136 Law of Property Act 1925" which is complete Ball Hooks

 

They need to be informed this account is in dispute and that MBNA have failed to comply with your CCA request therefore the Account is currently unenforcable under the Consumer Credit Act as laid out in s78(6)

 

should they be suicidial and try to take this to court you have a complete defence under S127 CCA 1974

 

Basically they are up ***** Creek without a paddle;)

 

Looks like link have wasted their money:D

 

Regards

paul

[mfpa]

They need to be informed this account is in dispute and that MBNA have failed to comply with your CCA request therefore the Account is currently unenforcable under the Consumer Credit Act as laid out in s78(6)

 

should they be suicidial and try to take this to court you have a complete defence under S127 CCA 1974

 

Thanks. I hope that's the case for account where they sent the "agreement" and recent T&Cs in post 12 of this thread as well as for the one where they have not bothered at all.

 

I have not got around to writing to Link yet as my Dad died of a kidney problem a month ago after just 5 days in hospital, preceeded by a week at home on antibiotiocs for a urinary tract infection. Dad was the main carer for my Mum, who has Alzheimer's disease and has now moved into a nursing home as she needs 24-hour care. The day after moving in, she fell down and broke a hip whilst on a visit to a garden centre. The surgery has been successful and she is recovering but keeps forgetting she has recently had a hip operation, so she tries to walk without any support and falls over. Yesterday, Mum was discharged from hospital and is back at her nursing home - at least she now has carpeted floors if she falls. Also yesterday, we finished clearing out Mum and Dad's house and handed back the keys.

 

I received a letter today from Equidebt, who claim to now own my third MBNA account, the one where the reply to my CCA non-compliance letter was the rubbish in post 32 of this thread, so now I have three letters to write to DCAs about MBNA madness. (2 to Link and 1 to Equidebt.)

 

[kennyparkroad]

keep your chin up, things will come right in the end.

 

kpr

[Jeff2000]

keep your chin up, things will come right in the end.

 

kpr

 

 

Absolutely! Stick to your guns on this. You know you are right!!!

 

 

Very best wishes, Jeff.

[redsue]

Hi MFPA

 

Hope you mum is on the mend. How are things going?

Have you managed to send anything to Link and Equidebt yet?

I'm in a similar situation - with and A&L/MBNA card signed for in 93 - missing T&Cs and loads of prescribed terms.

best wishes Redsue

[mfpa]

Hi MFPA

 

Hope you mum is on the mend.

 

Thanks. She's settled in fairly well but still sometimes asks when dad is coming back or if she can go home. Walking reasonably with her zimmer frame but still very slow and often drags the foot of her good leg if not reminded to move it forward. She was on good form today but tired.

 

How are things going?

Have you managed to send anything to Link and Equidebt yet?

I'm in a similar situation - with and A&L/MBNA card signed for in 93 - missing T&Cs and loads of prescribed terms.

best wishes Redsue

I sent them

21st November 2007

Your reference: ******

Dear Sir/Madam

In reply to your recent correspondence, I refer you to my letter dated **** May 2007 which was delivered by Recorded Delivery to MBNA’s offices on **** May 2007.

 

That letter was a formal request under Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to reference ****************..

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, your client commits an offence. These time limits expired on **** June 2007 and **** July 2007 respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware Section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1):-

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore as at 12th July 2007 this account became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities.

 

It is my belief that your continued pursuance of this matter also constitutes an offence under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, as well as offences under various sections of the Data Protection Act 1998.

Any default notices or adverse comments recorded on my credit reference file must be immediately removed. Note this is to be a complete deletion and not merely an amendment.

 

Failure to respond positively to this letter within fourteen days of receipt will result in litigation or/and other enforcement action being considered without further notice.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

I do not recall any replies from Link.

 

Equidebt confirmed receipt of my letter, "the contents of which have been noted. This matter has been referred to our vendor for further instructions. If in the meantime you need to contact us..."

As Link and Equidebt seem to be ignoring me at the moment I am not bothering them either.

 

Bank of Scotland issued a county court claim against me 3 weeks ago, after "Blair, Oliver and Scott" passed my case back when I pointed out they were in default of my CCA request. That thread is here.

[mfpa]

I do not recall any replies from Link.

 

Link broke their silence by phoning me at work twice yesterday. They made no attempt to verify who I was before trying to talk about "one of your MBNA accounts that has been assigned to us".

[steven4064]

I think that breaks several of the OFT guidelines on debt collection, not to mention the DPA

[mfpa]

Link broke their silence

Link have apparantly come out of hibernation. Yesterday I received FOUR letters from them, all dated and franked 24th April. Two identical pairs of letters, one for each of the two credit card accounts they "purchased" from MBNA last October (at which time all my MBNA accounts were in dispute).

 

They have also sent the original application forms (but no T&Cs) for both agreements. One of these was previously sent by MBNA last July (that time they sent a recent set of T&Cs) and I posted it earlier in this thread. The other was not sent before.

 

I can see no mention of the payment protection insurance I was paying.

 

The only previous letter I've received from Link was this one last October.

 

I'm posting scans of one copy of the letters and both application forms. I should appreciate any thoughts on what Link are planning to do, on whether these application forms could be enforced as credit agreements, and any other relevant observations. What (if anything) should I do now? Maybe write and inform them that no notice has been served?

 

____Letter 1________Letter 2

 

________Application Form A

_______Application Form B

[steven4064]

I would guess they are planning to take you to court for payment. As you know, the agreements are enforceable

[mfpa]

I would guess they are planning to take you to court for payment.

Well I guess I can do nothing about that. Perhaps I should start token £1 monthly payments? If I had any money available I would pay my mortgage arrears before offering anything to Link - I borrowed nothing from Link. At the moment I would struggle to offer even 1% of what they're after.

As you know, the agreements are enforceable

Yes, I never really bought the argument that an application form wasn't an agreement. One side of the form says it's an agreement, the other side says it's an application. I don't know if that's a contradiction or not.

 

Does not being produced until eleven months after my CCA request make any difference at all for "application form b"? If the document supplied satisfies my CCA request, is the agreement now enforceable again?

 

What about lack of T&Cs? Should I be requesting them under a CPR pre-action protocol, or something?

 

If those things in the top left corner are supposed to be their signature, on on "application form A" it is dated 6 days after mine but on "application form B" it is dated over 9 months before mine. Does this mean anything?

 

And what about the letters they claim to have sent that are "a legal requirement under the Law of Property Act 1925"?

[steven4064]

There is a difference between being properly executed and being enforceable. An agreement is enforceable under s127(3) if it has your signature and the prescribed terms even if it doesn't otherwise comply (with anything).

 

Yes, ask for the T&Cs and specify the ones applicable at the time the loan was taken out.

 

The law of propert bit is to do with the assignment of the debt to link

[mfpa]

There is a difference between being properly executed and being enforceable. An agreement is enforceable under s127(3) if it has your signature and the prescribed terms even if it doesn't otherwise comply (with anything).

So the application form that dates their signature long before mine is not properly executed but it is enforceable, correct? Does the delay in supplying CCA mean they have to go to court to enforce, or have I misunderstood that?

 

Yes, ask for the T&Cs and specify the ones applicable at the time the loan was taken out.

Am I right that they have not complied with the CCA request till they supply these? Can anybody recommend a template letter to use/adapt for this?

 

The law of property bit is to do with the assignment of the debt to link

OK but I have no idea what recent letter they are talking about that was a requirement of that Act and asked me to contact them. Do they normally send a letter like that, as I've not had any and they claim to have sent two.

[steven4064]

in principle tey would have to go to court to enforce the agreement. However, isn't this accademic if they are planning to take you to court anyway?

 

The amendments to the CCA mean they can send most recent T&Cs and be deemed to have complied even if tey are not the T&Cs that are relevant to your agreement.

 

I don't know what letter they are talking about either

[mfpa]

in principle they would have to go to court to enforce the agreement. However, isn't this accademic if they are planning to take you to court anyway?

 

You have a point there!

 

The amendments to the CCA mean they can send most recent T&Cs and be deemed to have complied even if they are not the T&Cs that are relevant to your agreement.

 

That's a fairly nonsensical amendment. How does any set of T&Cs other than those you agreed to prove anything to the court?

[mfpa]

I have sent this reply to Link:-

My Address

5th May 2008

Link Financial Ltd

PO Box 30095

London

SE1 7WU

 

Link Reference Number: ******

I have received a letter dated 24th April 2008 from your "Ms [edit]", accompanied by a copy of a credit card application form. The letter tells me the documents I requested from Link Financial are enclosed.

 

I can only assume you are referring to my request of 21st May 2007 that MBNA supply a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to reference ****************, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I would point out that the document supplied does not discharge the creditor's obligations under the CCA as it refers to terms and conditions that are not present in that document and have not been supplied. As a consequence, the alleged agreement remains unenforceable at law as detailed in my letter of 21st November 2007.

 

Additionally, I am in receipt of a letter from your "Mrs [edit]", also dated 24th April 2008. This states I have recently received a letter from yourselves that was a legal notice under Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. I would point out that, prior to your letters dated 24th April 2008, I had received no recent letters from Link Financial. Your only previous letter, which was dated 24th October 2007, made no claims to being any form of legal notice.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

MFPA