Power 2 contact Ltd

[mr.ton]

This whole area is complex, have a read of this....

 

If you think that bailiffs may call at your house, be aware that you do not have to let them in.

However, if you leave any doors or windows open they have the right to enter through them.

Once they have gained entry they may also force entry to any other parts of the premises.

However, if you do refuse to let them in then they will be sure to return at some other time and the problem will not go away. In the long term you need to seek help from one of the agencies listed below.

What can I do if I receive a notice to say a bailiff is coming to my house?

If you have received notification to say a bailiff is going to call at your house, you may be able to negotiate with them or the lender (creditor).

You may also be able to make an application to the court to suspend the bailiff's action. Your local CAB or an advice agency will be able to advise you on how this can be done.

If you cannot suspend the bailiff's action, it may not be too late to make an offer to the bailiff to repay the debt over a period of time.

If you cannot afford to make the bailiff an offer, your local CAB may be able to help by negotiating with the bailiff on your behalf.

When you seek advice make sure you have all the necessary papers left by the bailiff.

If you know a bailiff is going to call, try to have a witness there and make sure you note down everything the bailiff says or any of the powers they claim to have.

Read on for a fuller and deeper insight on bailiffs.

A visit from a bailiff can be a frightening and stressful experience. This page explains what a bailiff can and cannot do when they call at your home.

How do I deal with a bailiff at my door?

The bailiff can call at your house at any reasonable time to seize goods, but you do not have to let them in.

The bailiff cannot enter your house by force, but they can legally enter your property through open windows or unlocked doors, so make sure all your doors and windows are locked or closed!

Once the bailiff has been inside your house by entering peacefully, they can call again at a later date and enter your house without your permission, forcefully, to remove your goods.

When seizing goods the bailiff must leave the premises safe.

When in your house the bailiff has the right of access to all rooms and can force their way into other parts of the property.

Which goods can a bailiff take?

There are some exceptions to what the bailiff can take from your home:-

A bailiff acting on a County Court Judgment cannot seize clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment or other goods necessary to meet basic domestic needs.

Generally, no bailiff can seize tools, books, vehicles or other equipment necessary for personal use in employment or business. However, a bailiff acting for Poll Tax, Council Tax, VAT and Tax may be able to do so.

No bailiff can seize goods belonging to anyone other than the person named on the distress warrant.

A bailiff cannot seize goods subject to a hire purchase or rental agreement (goods on credit sale can be seized because they belong to the person).

Goods you own jointly with someone else can be taken.

The bailiff may take the goods away immediately, but what will usually happen is that the bailiff and the debtor will come to an agreement known as a "walking possession agreement".

This means that the debtor has agreed to pay the bailiff a maximum of 45pence plus VAT per day for the continued use of the goods.

This is not permanent and will only give the debtor a few days to try and re-negotiate with the court. If a bailiff has gained entry and the debtor does not want the goods to be removed immediately, this agreement has to be signed.

Goods seized by the bailiff must be put into auction to be sold, the bailiff is under a legal obligation to obtain the best price possible. As the goods are second-hand, the value of the goods are only a fraction of what their new value was. A bailiff will often identify many more goods than you might expect.

Your rights

You cannot be sent to prision for not co-operating with a bailiff. You do not have to let them into your house. You should seek advice as soon as possible.

A bailiff must not threaten you illegally, force entry to your home or use offensive language. If you are concerned about a bailiff's behaviour, you can complain either to the creditor or to the court that sent them.

Types of bailiff

A bailiff is someone who is instructed:-

by a creditor to enforce a money debt or a fine

by a landlord to carry out an eviction

by a creditor to repossess goods under hire purchase or a conditional sale agreement

to enforce an injunction

A bailiff has legal authority to carry out these actions. A bailiff can enter your home and take away possessions which, when sold off, will go towards repaying the money owed.

There are three different kinds of bailiffs: County Court bailiffs, Sheriff's Officers and private bailiffs.

County Court bailiffs are directly employed by the County Court and must follow guidelines laid down by the Lord Chancellor's Department.

Sheriff's Officers are contracted by the High Court and work in geographical county areas. They work out of the local Sheriff's Office under the control of an Under- Sheriff who is usually responsible for that area. If a creditor has a CCJ of more than £600 they can transfer the judgement up to the High Court for enforcement.

Private bailiffs are self-employed, employed by a private firm, or employed as bailiffs by another organisation (e.g Local Authority, Inland Revenue).

Certificated bailiffs are granted a certificate following an application to a County Court. Certification is only necessary to empower a bailiff to levy distress for rent arrears and council tax arrears and to enforce road traffic debts, although some local authorities will insist on this for all bailiff work.

To be granted a certificate a bailiff must:-

1) Satisfy the court that s/he is a 'fit and proper person' to hold a certificate and possesses sufficiant knowledge of the law of distress; and

2) Lodge in court a bond or deposit for £10,000 or have an insurance indemnity for this amount. A new security must be provided if the old security runs out or is reduced.

[diddydicky]

Exactly Diddy, that is what we are saying. Court appointed/instructed/guaranteed, whatever we wish to refer to it as, is basically fine and acceptable in a civilised society. A bailiff acting without that control, i.e. on their own volition, cannot, intrinsically, be trusted as it is open to vigilantism and abuse beyond what civilised society should allow and hence why I think if a bailiff operates on that side, they qualify as being treated as **** whether or not they truly are. If you want to be professional in your job, be a professional.

 

A self appointed copper not working for the police force would not be acceptable, nor should a self appointed bailiff acting under arbitrary requests from dodgy (even if legally sound and publicly owned) companies.

 

As for you getting the sack, I would never be comforted in knowing someone found themselves out of work, but it sounds like you may well have been more decent than many others. So you actually where court appointed then in reality, Diddy?

 

ALL private bailiffs are licensed individually by the court (and re licensed every two years) apart from trainees who must be accompanied by a certified bailiff

 

if he is not licensed by the court he is a debt collector not a bailiff- and has no powers whatsoever apart from persuasion

[diddydicky]

Private bailiffs are self-employed, employed by a private firm, or employed as bailiffs by another organisation (e.g Local Authority, Inland Revenue).

 

and have to enter into a bond with the court and be licensed by the court

[fleeced_by_rbos]

I think this is all a matter of semantics relating to the word "bailiff" and the process of being "court appointed". Let's simplify it by saying a person appointed by a court after a case being heard can legally enter your premises regardless of how you feel, whereas someone attempting to enter your property without the court agreeing to it is trespassing if you prefer them not to do so.

 

Protecting ones own property and person (you could argue you felt threatened) is grounds for defending ones self. I don't mean kicking the holy s**** out of them (as much as you may want to!) but defending yourself from being violated in terms of your home being ransacked by another person, your person being forced to face that, etc etc.

 

So it all comes down to if a court says so then you have to put up with it as you should have complied with whatever the court demanded. If no court has been involved or agreed to any person seizing your goods then you can defend yourself. As Mr Ton says, it is a bit tricky as if you leave a window open, etc, then that is a different ball game. But say I came home to find someone ransacking my home and no court case had been heard, then I am justified in thinking it is a buglar and I can defend my property and assume I may also be in danger by doing so - would that not be the case?

 

Of course, there is that caveat of if they managed to gain entrance in the first place and left the place safely then it gets a bit tricky. In my opinion that law needs tightening as no one should be allowed to enter your property even if you don't leave the place secured - it is trespassing, full stop.

 

I maintain that, ideally, only under court order, should anyone have the power to even attempt to come to your door and collect anything. That is the civilised way. Contracts are drawn up between lenders and debtors and to enforce them, the law should be used, no other means. An MD of a company cannot just get a bloke from down the pub to burst into the offices of another company just because their deal went south, if there are legal grounds for recovery or compensation under the contract terms, then court is the answer. Courts are better equipped to judge the situation than a bloke who gets paid to put the frighteners on people who just couldn't make ends meet and found themselves up the creek.

 

Diddy, I think we are talking about the same thing really, but just a few wires crossed. Incidentally, I wouldn't go for the locksmith - the scenario I was considering was a thug sticking his boot in my door attempting to gain access by attempting to stop me from stopping him. He would be very much out and away from the door quicker than he could comprehend what happened, followed by some advisory words from me, followed by a slammed door. Any attempt by him to continue his behaviour would be met by increasing persuation along the same lines, and if he was silly enough to continue after I get bored, the police would be called to remove the intruder citing that I do not wish to harm him but it is getting more difficult. As an ex-bobby, how do you think that would come off? I have no interest in violence, only defense against what I perceive as bullies.

[diddydicky]

i think that you have to put yourself in the position of the other person,

 

let's imagine you are a self employed builder.electrician/plumber, whatever, you do a weeks work on a guys house and he pays you 1200 by cheque the guys cheque bounces, you are finding it hard as that money was your weeks money for the mortgage, food,kids school outing and general business expense and parts that you used, -

 

you go to his house to see him which is furnished with the plasma and all the other trappings, and he is clearly flush,but he is full of excuses/promises to pay but after several weeks.months it is clear he aint gonna pay.

 

you take you case through the courts, itself a tedious and time consuming process when you have as business to run and get a court judgement for the 3000 and your expenses chasing the money, he is self employed so no attachment of earnings,

 

the guy knows the ropes and basically laughs in the courts face, your only and last hope is the bailiff but he threatens what he will do to the bailiff in the way you suggest, if they come near his house

 

the bailiff is a wimp and faced with your threats s leaves you alone, send the warrant back and says he cannot get the money

 

how would YOU feel, if the boot was on the other foot

 

I rather fancy that you would berate the legal system and the bailiffs for letting you down, after all its a civil debt- you cant get the guy into prison and the bailiff was the last resort,

 

worse still- he tells all his mates- run up bills , refuse to pay them- threaten the bailiff and in the end hey presto free money/goods!!

 

people often think that no one gets hurt if they dont pay a debt but often they do

 

weaken or remove the bailiff system- but what to put it its place

 

if that was you, would you really be happy with 5 pound a month for the next 20 years?.

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Yes I agree with you about a small business, but that is where the law needs changing to make it easier to use the small claims process to enforce repayment or goods to be seized. I still do not agree with random thugs, recently been down the gym, looking menacing, frightening the vulnerable. In any case, the likes of Power2Contact don't even use thuggery, but unlawful trickery on behalf of large corporations who cannot be bothered to help the vulnerable - they understand ever increasing profit, nothing else.

 

So our argument is sort of skidding all over the place ;-)

 

I agree with many of your principles as above, but I still think the law should deal with all of these issues and if it doesn't at present as you say, then it needs changing. All bailiffs should be strictly controlled by the legal system in order to operate, and big enough to be a deterrent penalties should exist for anyone not licensed and obeying the rules of their license.

 

As for your numerous payment plans, that should have been seen as a good thing, again in a civilised world, but I guess it wasn't profitable enough for your bosses.

[vint1954]

Power 2 Contact are a company used by creditors to apply additional pressure on people to pay what the creditor thinks is due. Their tactics may be suspect, but you have to deal with these in the proper manner. You can exclude them from visiting your property, despite what they say to the contrary. You must realise however that they are not going to give up their business, just because you say so. If they break the rules, then you must follow through legally. Issue your notices then call the police if they refuse to go. I will have a wager that if you tell them politely that the account is in dispute and to go, they will. If you are aggressive with them from the start, they will dig their heals in. Confrontation is not always the best way.

 

Attacking someone, not in self defence, is against the law as it should be. This not only includes women, children, little old ladies and the vulnerable but the whole population, including those who are carrying out their jobs whether or not in a legal manner. If you go on the offensive, then you risk the full wrath of the law, as you should. You may use reasonable force, but I would doubt anyone would see it reasonable to use any form of violence, where someone has not threatened, or used violence against you. The people to handle this are the Police.

 

Baliffs have a legal and important part to play in society, as already demonstrated by DD. If that does not fit with individuals views then no one will be able to alter that view, nomatter how coherent the argument.

 

I have only ever dealt with a baliff once so far in my life. He was court appointed and was trying to collect on a debt run up by my business partner, before I was involved in the business. My business partner fled and could not be found. As the stock in the business was partly from partnership times, he had the legal right to issue a walking possesion order. He understood the situation, offered advice and did not issue the order. He called quite a few times, first as a baliff and later as a very good customer. Treat people as you would wish to be treated. You never know, you may make a bob or two. I did.

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Hi Vint

 

I agree. My arguments are against those unscrupulous ones I have seen on a few documentaries. Anyone pushing themselves into my home is breaking and entering and will be forced out. I have never said that I would attack them or go on the offensive. Again, this is all a matter of semantics. If I said I would kick the holy c*** out of them that is very different to saying I would defend myself and property which can range from preventing them from entering to pushing them, to smashing their foot with a sledge hammer should it enter the door. I would personally use minimal and reasonable force to prevent them from entering when they are not permitted.

 

All of that said, I have never had to deal with one and hope I never have to. I have only had minimal dealings with P2C when they sent a card through the post making it look like they had called around to see me - it was on behalf of my bank trying to collect arrears on a loan which I tried to get that bank to take out of my account, but who were so incompetent that they didn't bother taking it, but still used P2C to put on frigtheners, which didn't work. I sent them both letters telling them they had violated debt collection guidelines and that they should get their act together and take payments when I ask them to. End of my dealings with P2C.

 

So again, may I say, that I have no aggresive tendencies, I merely would use a level of force applicable to the level of force being used by the other person.

 

I agree about treating people as they treat you, but of course not everyone who goes around to collect from others is a decent person, I've had friends who have had nasty intimidating (so called) bailiffs, sent by (so called) reputable companies. They don't all act within the law, they don't all have the law on their side, they don't all deserve to be treated fairly, and not all people being chased by them have really done anything to deserve that kind of intimidation.

 

Right, now I think I have hijacked this thread discussing use of defense far too much (here here I hear you shout!)! We all have our opinions, understandings, and beliefs in what is right. Mine are centred on the fact that I despise those people who pick on people less able to defend themselves whether that be by physical force or by being a huge company with armies of people to hound the common man. It is a form of bullying that blights our society and should be replaced with good rule of law, good intentions from decent people, and a willingness for people to come to proper agreements to pay what they owe when they really do owe it.

 

On that utopian note, I must get back to work!

 

FBR

[bazaar]

wow, sorry did I start all of that???

No offence meant to you personally diddy, although I feel it touched a nerve.

This thread is about the company who think they have power, IE power to contact. Many on here have had experience of their unproffessional behaviour, and empty threats. Thats why they are here at this site and not the Bailliffs and DCA action group.com now I know how that meerkat feels Simples . ( Only joking, honest guv)

[mr.ton]

Bailiffs do have a role to play in society Vint, i agree - but only those authorised by the courts.

Bailffs not authorised by the courts have no role to play in society whatsoever.

[vint1954]

Bailiffs do have a role to play in society Vint, i agree - but only those authorised by the courts.

Bailffs not authorised by the courts have no role to play in society whatsoever.

Yes, that was my point mr ton.

 

There is still the law to turn to if they do not follow proceedure. I just think that the first response, should someone call, should be a polite go away and tell them why!

 

It is also true however, that the thought of someone calling worries the life out of some, so they may not be able to speak to them on the doorstep.

[bazaar]

maybe a quick squirt of water from the letter box:D its not violent, itll put a smile on your face and imagine the embarrassment of a dodgy bailiff looking like hes wet himself:lol:

[Yorky2008]

Bucket of dirty water from cleaning the bathroom out of the upstairs window? They have read your harressment letter not to call on you so how would you know they were standing outside....

[theotherside]

I received a letter from P2C today. It wasnt a card, it was a sealed perforated letter telling me their visiting hours.

 

Do they actually visit?

[Revenant]

Here's the link to another thread re P2C and shows just how bad some operatives can be

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/224560-power-2-contact.html

[diddydicky]

I received a letter from P2C today. It wasnt a card, it was a sealed perforated letter telling me their visiting hours.

 

Do they actually visit?

 

yes sometimes- get the kettle on!!

[Reader]

I too received a perforated letter telling me that they will call some time.

 

ReaderT

[ar_123]

I received a letter from P2C today. It wasnt a card, it was a sealed perforated letter telling me their visiting hours.

 

Do they actually visit?

 

You might want to take a listen to this phone recording a made when I phoned the monkeys:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/217021-power2contact-have-no-intention.html

[vint1954]

I received a letter from P2C today. It wasnt a card, it was a sealed perforated letter telling me their visiting hours.

 

Do they actually visit?

Yes, they came to see me twice, but I was out on both occations.

 

I sent them the do not darken my doorstep, twice. Also reported them to TS. They have not been back since.

[vint1954]

Here's the link to another thread re P2C and shows just how bad some operatives can be

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/224560-power-2-contact.html

I think you will find that they use independent collectors.

[RoadToRecovery]

Yes, they came to see me twice, but I was out on both occations.

 

I sent them the do not darken my doorstep, twice. Also reported them to TS. They have not been back since.

 

 

Just missed a visit from one of their guys yesterday, really cheesed as my wife was away with the children and it would have been an ideal opportunity to deal with them. She is getting poorly over the continued threats of doorstep visits over an alleged debt to barclaycard

 

The letter you mention, is it the standard revoking of the licence letter, vint?

 

tia

[vint1954]

Not realy, but try this one.

Power to Contact

Westmere Court

Westmere Drive

Crewe Business Park

CW1 6ZG

xxxxc 2009.

Dear xxxx,

I have today missed a visit from one of your agents. You will be aware of the strict regulations surrounding home visits to discuss debt, as laid out very clearly by the OFT. The first principle being that an appointment must be made with me, prior to any visit. No such appointment was made and will not be made in the future.

I had previously revoked the original creditors, or associated companies and agents, right to visit my home. You must advise your agent immediately, that if he tries to call again, I will contact the Police without delay. For your further reference, the notice issued to the original creditor, is repeated below. I have lodged a complaint with Trading Standards and will advise you of the Crime Number that I will obtain from the Police, should you agent try to visit my home again.

This account is in serious dispute with xxxxxx, the details of which are none of your concern. You must however read the later paragraphs concerning data protection.

TAKE URGENT NOTE:

I DO NOT WISH TO RECEIVE ANY REPRESENTATIVE OF YOUR ORGANISATION, OR INDEED AN AGENT OR REPRESENTATIVE EMPLOYED BY ANY ORGANISATION THAT YOU ISSUE INSTRUCTIONS TO.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.)

THEREFORE TAKE NOTE THAT I REVOKE LICENSE UNDER COMMON LAW FOR YOU, OR YOUR REPRESENTATIVES TO VISIT ME AT MY PROPERTY AND IF YOU DO SO, THEN YOU WILL BE LIABLE FOR DAMAGES FOR A TORT OF TRESSPASS AND ACTION WILL BE TAKEN, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO , POLICE ATTENDANCE.

 

I also caution you here that should you ignore my request on this point, the actions of your representative(s) will happily be recorded either by CCTV or by telephone recording equipment – whichever is applicable. Accordingly I reserve the right to use any evidence of you or your representatives’ ignoring this request in connection with any actions that I choose to pursue, including media exposure.

 

Should it be your intention to disregard my wishes, and break your obligations, please be advised that the following rules also apply, as laid down by the OFT in respect of debt collection, and that you, as a holder of a consumer credit license, are obliged to follow:

The areas of the OFT guidance which applies to you in this instance are:

Debt collection visits

2.12 Examples of unfair practices are:

 

a. not making the purpose of any proposed visit clear, for example, merely stating that collectors or field agents will call is not sufficient

f. visiting or threatening to visit debtors without prior agreement when the debt is deadlocked or disputed

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any third parties and credit reference agencies.

Please confirm that you have complied with my request under section 10 of the Data Protection Act.

If Power 2 Contact process or continue to process my information, then you will be complicit in the current breaches under the Data protection act. I am sure that Power 2 Contact will be aware of the penalties and fines involved.

I do believe this makes my position clear and unambiguous.

 

Yours faithfully

[RoadToRecovery]

Brilliant

 

Many thanks vint. I would be truly lost without CAG.

[diddydicky]

if they wont take no for an answer and you see them at the door, phone the police 999 and tell them there is a disturbance and give the address,

 

then go out and start a row with the guy and start prodding and pushing

 

 

when the police arrive you will BOTH be cautioned about your conduct as it is likely to cause a breach of the peace,

 

HOWEVER having explained to the police that the company he is from will not take no for an answer the visitor WILL be taken aside and warned not to attend the premises again and that if he does he will be arrested in order to prevent a breach of the peace

[RoadToRecovery]

There is a lot of unpleasant stuff posted on various forums about this power2contact outfit. Sounds like they have some really tough guy agents who are real macho men when visiting lone women and women with children around.

 

Why are such firms allowed to continue trading?