Parking ticket - pretty sure illegal!

[racer1]

I received a fine last night for "not having ticket clearly displayed" at local station car park. Now....seeing as my car is clearly dark green (and a pic below to try and help illustrate point!) and the ticket says the car is grey, can someone please confirm this is not enforceable? If the ticket person can't get car colour right when it's over 12 feet in length yet claims the ticket was not clearly displayed don't think this can stand up!

 

Not the best pics [were taken when out "playing" rather than close up on road!] but I think get the point across.

 

 

[Zamzara]

Colour is irrelevant I'm afraid. There is no requirement for it to be correct.

[StormWarrior]

O.K. I'm gonna reply to this, I've tried hard not too, but I'm gonna anyway:D

 

it's over 12 feet in length

is that 'scale' feet?

 

but I think get the point across

The point is ..........???

 

You've got a toy car and think your a racing driver ?

 

Appologies to everyone, I couldn't resist.

[dlb]

what other details are on the ticket???

 

you can probably find some kind of error, which will make the ticket void.

[StormWarrior]

A bit more sensible this time.

 

at local station car park

If this was a Railway station, you may find it was subject to different rules than a 'private' car park. A scan of the ticket would be useful.

And have a look at any signs in the car park.

[racer1]

Colour is irrelevant I'm afraid. There is no requirement for it to be correct.

 

But surely if they can't get the colour correct of the CAR they cannot state whether the ticket was clearly displayed or not?

 

is that 'scale' feet?

 

In length - check Parkers if you're really that bothered.

 

The point is ..........???

 

You've got a toy car and think your a racing driver ? :grin:

 

The point is those are the only pictures I had but they show the car is not grey. What I do in my private life is down to me but if you're really that bothered, I suggest you read Motorsport News so then you can find out what I do. And, incidentally, I wasn't racing in the pictures so get your facts right!!!

[racer1]

Parking ticket says (no scanner):

 

Parking charge notice

Railway byelaws

 

This site is operated in accordance with the Railway Bylaws made under Section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Rail Authority (the "Authority") and confirmed under Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Secretary of State for Transport on 22 June 2005 for regulating the use and working of, and travel on or by means, of railway assets, the maintenance of order on railway assets and the conduct of all persons while on the railway assets (the "byelaws").

 

A parking charge must be paid within 28 days.

Reduced charge £25 (if payment received within 14 days, including day of issue)

Full charge £50 (if payment received after 14 days)

Please see the remittance slip for important information and payment. Do not pay the parking attendant.

 

Vehicle registration number: XXX XXX

Was seen at location: xxxxxxxxxxx station

Make: Nissan

Model: Micra

Colour: Grey

 

First seen at 11:10

Notice issued at 11:27

 

By PA xxxx

On: 16.5.07.

 

Details:

 

[various boxes to tick]

ticked "parked in a pay & display car park without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket"

 

 

NCP - National Car Parks Ltd

 

There's a second page but just with a bit for card details etc.

[racer1]

Having just read through some other threads on here:

 

aside from the issue of colour, the time bit only says "on" not time of issue etc or whatever it needs to say - does this change things too?

 

On the PCN itself there is no address to send the payment to - it's only on the separate payment slip. If I understand correctly, again this makes it unenforceable.

 

Any further thoughts please?

 

Thanks.

[StormWarrior]

Hi Bispers,

Sorry that you found offence in my 1st post, even though I thought I had put in enough smilies to ensure anyone reading it would know it was in fun.

 

Quote:

is that 'scale' feet?

In length - check Parkers if you're really that bothered.

 

 

a smidgen over 12' 2" actually, as you seem to put so much store in it's size. And my data comes from Nissan!

THIS IS HUMOUR !

 

Quote:

The point is ..........???

 

You've got a toy car and think your a racing driver ? :grin:

The point is those are the only pictures I had but they show the car is not grey.

Yep, either of those pictures show that. Didn't really need both, did it?

 

What I do in my private life is down to me but if you're really that bothered, I suggest you read Motorsport News so then you can find out what I do.

I stopped reading motorsport papers, when I stopped racing, before you were born. But I assume if you are making the motorsporting press, you must be enjoying either a degree of success, in which case well done:) , or a degree of disaster, in which case, whoops!

THAT IS NOT HUMOUR !

 

And, incidentally, I wasn't racing in the pictures so get your facts right!!!

If your intent on facts I never said you were racing !

 

Any which way ,lighten up and see the smilies, or do they need to be 12' 2" long.

 

Again, that one is HUMOUR !

[racer1]

StormWarrior - if you're not going to help, which is what I'm asking for, can you please refrain from posting on this thread where I was asking for help?

 

FWIW - I had no problem with what you said at all but you seem to be taking the p1ss now, there's really no need. I used pictures to illustrate my point, if you didn't like that - afraid there's nothing I can do :/ I do know the exact length of my car, and I do know what colour it is - but I'm not presumptious enough to expect that people who I'm asking for advice will have the same knowledge. And yes MN is for success thanks

 

So - if anyone does want to help rather than seemingly be more interested in discussing the length of my car or the details in my pics - please do!

[StormWarrior]

Back to the ticket !

 

The byelaws which the ticket was issued under may have a major bearing on the required format of the ticket.

Unlike tickets issued DIRECTLY under provisions of a statue, bylaws can be worded to encompass a far wider rang of cases and provisions.

 

This has been discussed before, see if this helps.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/52990-ncp-fine-railway-station.html?highlight=railway

 

Good luck.

[dlb]

have you read this forum on Private PCN's

 

Private PCN / Parking Ticket - Wild Bean Cafe BP Gatwick Connect Petrol Station! - FightBack Forums

 

to be honest i don't know how to deal with this PCN, as they are using legislation that gives them the right to issue the PCN.

 

where are you supposed to send your representations, does the ticket say??

 

if you really felt strongly you should take it through court, stating that it doesn't include mandatory details such as PCN's issued under Road Traffic Act 1991, not sure what the outcome will be???

 

you would probably be the first to take it all the way.

 

dlb.

[racer1]

Does in some ways but still not clear on the having wrong colour issue and other bits as previously posted above...

[racer1]

have you read this forum on Private PCN's

 

Private PCN / Parking Ticket - Wild Bean Cafe BP Gatwick Connect Petrol Station! - FightBack Forums

 

to be honest i don't know how to deal with this PCN, as they are using legislation that gives them the right to issue the PCN.

 

where are you supposed to send your representations, does the ticket say??

 

if you really felt strongly you should take it through court, stating that it doesn't include mandatory details such as PCN's issued under Road Traffic Act 1991, not sure what the outcome will be???

 

you would probably be the first to take it all the way.

 

dlb.

 

Hi, DLB,

 

Representations to:

 

Notice Processing

PO Box 4627

Worthing

BN11 9EF

 

The back of the payment part of the remittance slip has the Railway Byelaws info on it.

 

Am just reading through other forum now.

[StormWarrior]

Forget the wrong colour issue, it won't get you any where.

The attendant might simply be colour blind! They will argue that the make, model, and Reg number shows the car was there.

 

Re-reading your first post, I assume you had a ticket, just that they say it wasn't displayed properly?

 

The problem is gonna be proving it.

[racer1]

Yes, exactly SW.

 

The reason for re-iterating the colour issue is as earlier said - if they can't see the colour of a car clearly enough, how can they determine if ticket is correctly displayed? Agree there is the potential of a colour blind attendant but then surely they shouldn't be "allowed" to document a colour when, in some cases [depending on the extent of their colourblindness] it could be wrong?

 

Ticket was in same place as normally is...[clearly on dashboard]. Left it in same place today so will see what happens when return home later.

[racer1]

The only thing to add is - the only issue I've had in the past [and not received tickets for] is a) paying my £4.80 for the day and the ticket machine having little or no ink and b) not relevant this week [!] but the sun fading the ink during the day if it's been very hot.

 

So bit mistified... :-|

[StormWarrior]

Sounds like you regularly park in the same car park?

If so have you got the other tickets?

(last time I cleaned out my 'work' car door I found a ticket a year old )

 

A pile of old tickets, with the ticket in question, would certainly show that your regular payer.

Faced with the ticket, and others, they might accept your point.

It might help.

Sounds like the NCP bod is trying it on!

[racer1]

Yes, I commute so if in office (which is normally 5 days a week) I park there. I have got some tickets somewhere though did have a good car clean recently.

 

There was nothing last night, ticket left as normal, and left ticket the same this morning!

 

I do find it slightly amusing that they try and claim a ticket is not clearly displayed....but don't ticket cars that park on random bits of kerbing making access to and from the car park difficult [and, from what I could see, had no tickets at all!].

[dlb]

To be honest I would try and contest the ticket on the grounds that you park there everyday, supply as many tickets as possible.

Secondly, that the ticket does not conform to the basic standards for such tickets. Quote key cases such as London Borough of Wandsworth v Al’s Bar and Restaurant 2002, case number 2020106430, Mandatory Details on PCN; Validity of Penalty Charge Notice (PCN), which can be found on the Parking Adjudicators website at

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/

the PCN does not contain mandatory details as stipulated in the Road Traffic Act 1991, I know this does not govern your PCN, but I might be worth a try….

Road Traffic Act 1991 - Parking penalties in London

66.—(3) A penalty charge notice must state—

a) the grounds on which the parking attendant believes that a penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

(b) the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

© that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(d) that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(e) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, a notice to owner may be served by the London authority on the person appearing to them to be the owner of the vehicle;

(f) the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent.

Its your best chance, I mean there must be some kind of example of what details a PCN should look like???? When issued by a private company, you can’t just do what you want.

If someone really bothered, I’m sure a judge would look favourably at them arguing that the details are not clear and that the company should follow the example set in the Road Traffic Act 1991. If UK legislation has gone to such detail to specify what details should be contained in a PCN, then surely, there is a case.

maybe threaten legal action in court telling them that you will rely on the above information.....

dlb