Ebay - Seller refusing refund/exchange and keeping money!

[kregrs]

Last week my gf won an auction for a top on Ebay, paid via paypal and the top arrived a few days later. After trying it on and finding it too small, she contacted the seller enquiring about exchange and was told no problem, as long as she paid the postage for the exchange item to be sent. Anyway, she paid them more and sent the item back. Today the seller contacts her and states that the top smells of smoke ( we both smoke) and so is damaged, and therefore no refund or exchange will be given. Now, we disagree with his claims, the top was literally tried on, and then repackaged and placed in cupboard. The seller is now also refusing to send the item back, so she has paid over £17 for nothing. What can we do?

 

The seller claims we have damaged his item! and that he has reported us to Ebay and that consumerdirect has advised him he is within his rights to keep the top and her money!

 

Btw, the seller is a trader on Ebay, with an Ebay shop, and not a private individual.

 

I know we can chase the item through Paypal but all she wants is what she has paid for.

[dx100uk]

start a dispute with ebay/paypal that the item was not the correct size.

significantly differing from advrtised item.

you might find they will refund not the seller.

 

dx100uk

[kregrs]

We have checked our Paypal a/c's, both of us have one, and on each a/c there is no record of one of the payments, despite there being email receipt for it. Also, the seller has opened an item not paid for dispute, despite us being able to prove that the item was paid for on the 4/5/07. We have tried opening an Item not received dispute but apparently not enough time has elapsed. How is this the case that the seller can open a dispute but not us?

[davethorp]

Open a not received dispute with paypal. Their system will let you open one earlier than ebay and ebay just refers you to paypal anyway

[CAGisforME]

Opening an "Item Not Received" dispute, would, in my opinion, be wrong, as an Item WAS received.

 

I have seen incidences like this before on the ebay Community Forums, and, despite being an ex-smoker myself, was VERY amused at the amount of fuss one particular seller was making about an item being returned "reeking of fags", as I found it unlikely to "reek".

 

(Hanging an item outside and spraying it lightely with white vinegar removes the smell - I can assure you)

 

So..... I digress....

 

In this case you have bought the top. Tried it on. Too Small. Seller says pay the postage on a new one to be sent out, which you have done.

 

Your Paypal account should show the Payment for the Top

 

and another for the postage amount for the return item.

 

The seller is, theoretically, within their rights to refuse a refund if the item is not returned in the condition it was sent.

 

Please don't shoot the messenger - I'm trying to see it from both sides.

 

I feel that you need to try and compromise with the seller. By accepting the item, trying it on and then contacting them to say it didn't fit you have ADMITTED to having received it. Therefore cannot morally claim you didn't.

 

However - You HAVE paid for the postage of a second item and therefore the seller must AT LEAST refund this money to you.

[CAGisforME]

Forgot to add my standard advice in these cases.

 

Visit the Community Forums on Ebay and see what the regulars on there think. They are generally very experienced.

 

[racer1]

The other thiing - instead of an "item not received" dispute which I think is wrong there is one "item not as described" (or words to the same effect) which you could open if the size of the top wasn't as specified.

 

However, from experience - I bought a top once that turned out to be see through. It didn't say this in the description, and had been photographed on a black mannequin so again I had no reason to expect it to be. I opened a dispute through paypal but although the seller agreed to a refund, they never did and said "you should've asked" - sorry, but sure it's not just me who doesn't think to say to everything "is it see-through" just because it's photographed cleverly.

[kregrs]

That is not the problem though. The seller now has both the payment AND the top and refuses to return the original top! So an item has been paid for, returned and now my gf has neither a refund/exchange OR the item she originally paid for. If it makes any difference, the item was bought Buy It Now. And as you claim it would be wrong for us to open an Item Not Received dispute, does the same not apply to the seller? The item was paid for yet they are claiming it hasn't been paid for. The part refund they claim to have made does not show up on Paypal, it seems that we are just being treated like absolute Cr*p by the seller and, from what we can gather, this seems to be acceptable. Ebay live help has actually been quite helpful but has been unable to take any action against the seller. As for the sellers claims, should they not have to substaniate their claims as to the smell of smoke?

[CAGisforME]

kregrs

 

The seller should not be refusing to return the original top as she has the money for postage, sent by your gf by paypal to originally be used to send the supposed substitute.

 

If they have started an "Item not paid For" dispute then all you need to do is put your Paypal Transaction Number in and fire that off to them. This proves that you DID pay for it. Whatever you do you MUST respond to the Unpaid Item Dispute or you will be unable to leave feedback at the appropriate time (ie when this is sorted out!)

 

Again - I strongly advise that you post the problem on the Community Forums on ebay itself, as the regulars on there know their onions so to speak.

 

Why did they need to part-refund? Sorry - that's not clear from your posts.

Are they claiming that they refunded you for the return postage that you sent them?

 

As for the sellers claims: Well, you admit you both smoke, so therefore it's fairly likely that (despite what you think) the item smelt of smoke when it was received back. I can smell cigarette smoke a mile off, it doesn't bother me, but it DOES bother some people and many buyers wouldn't want a top that smelt of ciggies. HOW exactly do you expect her to substantiate her claim?

 

I know that you are cross about the monetary loss. I suggest you get expert help from the ebay Community Forums (Q & A is good - or Payments) and see what they say. Their advice is loads better than the standard ebay hogwash emails.

 

Good Luck

[racer1]

Yes - the seller shouldn't have opened a payment not received dispute (unless it bounced which occasionally can happen with paypal as I found once) *and* they're quids up with your girlfriend having made a second lot of postage from the seller to her.

 

I'm not sure how the seller could prove their claims - to be honest if they really wanted they could buy a pack of cigarettes and light one near the top, if they so wanted.

 

Your girlfriend should receive either a refund [inc the extra lot of postage she has paid for for the potential posting from seller to yourselves] or an exchange [obviously to the size you specify].

[kregrs]

thats the point they are not doing either.

[CAGisforME]

Yes, kegrs, you have stated that they have not refunded or returned.

 

Have you checked yours and your gf's paypal account, gone to the Original Transaction and checked that it doesn't have "partially refunded" next to it?

 

Respond to the Unpaid Item Dispute with the Paypal Transaction Number. That's all ebay should need to ensure you don't get a non payment strike.

 

Then, open an "Item not Received" dispute, escalate it and ENSURE that you put the full story in. The fact that ONE top has been received, sent back and not returned or refunded for.

 

Try really hard not to get in to an email slanging match with the seller.

 

Meanwhile, did you ask for advice on the Ebay Community Forum?

 

[kregrs]

This the latest message we have received from the seller -

 

Dear Buyer

 

This is the detailed report of the procedures we have undertaken.

On the 16th of May, we have lodged a formal complaint against you to Consumer Direct and have been advised to go to the police. We have been given a reference number.

We have also reported you to Ebay during this time.

 

On the 17th of May, after receiving further threats from your 'boyfriend', we have reported you to Ebay again. We have been advised to open Unpaid Item Disputes against you.

On the same day, we have banned you from shopping with us.

 

On the 18th of May 2007, the garment was brought to Millgarth Police Station in Leeds, West Yorkshire.

Thereafter, we lodged another formal complaint against you and your actions to West Yorkshire Trading Standards Services (Joint Services).

 

We have been advised that we are not required to refund you because:

- The initial garment does not fit, regardless of it being damaged by cigarrete smoke

 

All our contact details on Ebay are correct and have been used and verified to make these reports.

 

We have refunded you the additional cost you paid for the exchange garment. This amount, £3.65 was sent by Paypal. The paypal transaction number is: OWV62969P58129818

It is not our concern if you cannot trace your own paypal transactions as this amount has been deducted from our account and we have receipt proof of this.

 

And because this item is no longer of use to us, it will be returned to you.

 

We hope this incident will encourage you to accept responsibility for your actions.

 

Customer Services

Chiara Fashion

 

 

Now, at no point did I threaten them in any way. How can trading standards do anything about us, we are not traders. What would be the point of involving the police?

 

And finally, the original request was for an exchange.

[demon_x_slash]

Trading Standards can do nothing. Police would only get involved if there was intimidation/fraud - i.e., a criminal act. This is a dispute between a buyer and a seller, consumer law, not criminal law. I've got a feeling they're having you on about that.

[CAGisforME]

This the latest message we have received from the seller -

 

Dear Buyer

 

This is the detailed report of the procedures we have undertaken.

On the 16th of May, we have lodged a formal complaint against you to Consumer Direct and have been advised to go to the police. We have been given a reference number.

We have also reported you to Ebay during this time.

 

 

Rubbish! They are trying to get you to back down by intimidating you. A formal complaint for what? Paying for an item and then returning it?

 

On the 17th of May, after receiving further threats from your 'boyfriend', we have reported you to Ebay again. We have been advised to open Unpaid Item Disputes against you.

On the same day, we have banned you from shopping with us.

 

Very probably they will have sent a "harrassment by ebay message" report to ebay, but if you haven't received a ticking off, ebay didn't consider it an issue and neither should you.

 

If you paid then, as previously advised, all you need to do is put the Paypal Transaction number on the dispute when prompted to do so.

 

Big deal, so they blocked you from bidding on their items! (Like you would have bought from them again anyway!)

 

On the 18th of May 2007, the garment was brought to Millgarth Police Station in Leeds, West Yorkshire.

Thereafter, we lodged another formal complaint against you and your actions to West Yorkshire Trading Standards Services (Joint Services).

 

I doubt VERY MUCH that the Police would be at all interested. If they DID take it down there they are probably still hearing the laughter ringing in their ears!

 

We have been advised that we are not required to refund you because:

- The initial garment does not fit, regardless of it being damaged by cigarrete smoke

 

COMPLETE rubbish!!

 

They have to either refund you, or, send the item you have paid for back, using the money you sent them for the postage for the replacement! (Then you could re-sell it on ebay to re-coup the dosh if you wanted!)

All our contact details on Ebay are correct and have been used and verified to make these reports.

 

And?

 

We have refunded you the additional cost you paid for the exchange garment. This amount, £3.65 was sent by Paypal. The paypal transaction number is: OWV62969P58129818

It is not our concern if you cannot trace your own paypal transactions as this amount has been deducted from our account and we have receipt proof of this.

 

You can check this, as I told you in a previous post. And it still doesn't mean they don't have to refund for the original item!

 

And because this item is no longer of use to us, it will be returned to you.

 

We hope this incident will encourage you to accept responsibility for your actions.

 

Customer Services

Chiara Fashion

 

Customer Services! Oh my aching sides!

 

 

Now, at no point did I threaten them in any way. How can trading standards do anything about us, we are not traders. What would be the point of involving the police?

 

And finally, the original request was for an exchange.

 

 

Now, as an ebay trader myself, I was TRYING to advise you by seeing both sides of the story. However this "seller" has now got right up my nose.

 

Can I just check? Did the top arrive Recorded Delivery?

 

I'll admit now that I have spent a number of years helping on the Community Forums on ebay and therefore have quite a lot of experience in this field.

 

Any chance you can PM me the seller id? I will take a look, but for the time being I wouldn't worry.

 

I'm afraid you can kiss goodbye to a shiney new top - however you SHOULD be able to get your refund, or a top that you can sell on.

 

Sellers AND Buyers who think they are above the rules and try to intimidate folk are my pet hates.

 

[CAGisforME]

Hi again,

 

I've just checked up on "Chiara" fashions. There are two on ebay in West Yorkshire.

 

Can you PM me which one it is.

 

I have the PERFECT way for you to get some dosh back AND hang them out to dry at the same time, if you are interested!

[CAGisforME]

Scrub that - I've just found the negative feedback that you left them!

 

I'd like to help if I can, but I'd prefer to do this by PM if you don't mind. I think I can get you a refund and some payback at the same time if you are minded.

 

[CAGisforME]

kregrs

 

I have PM'd you with what to do now.

[doompixie]

your plan sounds evil. In a good way. I wanna know whats going on!!

[CAGisforME]

You will have to wait and see!!

 

I have PM'd my "evil plan" to kregrs, but he hasn't responded, so I don't even know if he's read it.

 

Once he's decided what to do I might just reveal all!!

[demon_x_slash]

Watching with avid interest... Visited their page myself. One recent comment seems to imply that their sizing is a bit dodgy overall...

[CAGisforME]

They have two accounts Demon.

 

The OTHER one (not the one that sold this particular top) is a Powerseller (you know - those pillars of the community ) and is only a neg away from losing the PS status.

 

Nothing for sale.

 

Methinks that the other A/c has been opened so that the two can be merged keeping both lots of feedback, but losing the comments left for others from one account and dropping some beig red blemishes a bit further down the scale.

 

Power sellers and ebayers with shops REALLY shouldn't be registered as private sellers, now should they ???

 

I'll either update myself or kegrs can do it, if and when they read my PM.

 

[Lula]

ooo just subbing to see the conclusion of the skuduggery

[kregrs]

CAG, Thanks for the pm, I'm very interested in your plan, already taken 1 part of your advice and acted on it! Thanks again.

[kregrs]

Just one other thing. After reading, on their other a/c about their shop they have run for 4yrs, we tried repeatedly to obtain a phone number from dir enq but they weren't listed, strange for an established retail shop. The number on their Ebay a/c is a mobile, and is always switched off.