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Hi Cristal,

 

A lot of these situations are pursued because a creditor/DCA hopes that you won't defend. If you have received court papers, then it's vital that you respond.... none-compliance of a CCA request is a complete defence in any court claim that it issued against you.

 

Reading through the thread, it seems that their solicitors may not be aware of the legal implications of what they are doing. I have copy/pasted a letter which I sent to solicitors who were threatening me with similar nastiness.... I have not heard a peep since. I now have it in writing from the original credor that all legal action has been stopped.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your Ref :

Your Client :

 

I refer to your letter of xx/xx/2007.

 

Frankly, I am surprised of the need to remind a firm of solicitors about the terms and conditions surrounding my legal request for a Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credsit Act, 1974); received by xxxxxxxxxx on xx/xx/2007, followed by a letter dated xx/xx/2007 and xx/xx/2007 to remind them that the above account was in dispute. I can only assume therefore that they failed to inform you.

 

Should your client now persist with threats of legal action, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by xxxxxxx under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, as well as your client’s non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

:p

 

Make sure that everything is sent by recorded delivery.... and send a copy (cc) to GE Money as well.

 

Hi PriorityOne - Thought you'd be interested to hear that I rec'd a letter today from the solicitors, acknowledging receipt of my letter and advising me to respond to the court claim accordingly. I think they might regret that advice when they read the response as brilliantly authored by Laiste in post 42 on this thread. Meanwhile, I hope all continues to be quiet on 'debt row'! Cx

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Hi Cristal,

 

If you have a number of debts to deal with, my advice is to get definitive proof one way or another, firstly, if the agreement exists and secondly, if it is fatally flawed or not. Of course as you probably know, no agreement=no debt, fatally flawed=no debt. With the CCA requests, make sure the companies in question default and commit an offence b4 you start pushing them to produce it. Had this been last year I wouldn't be giving you this advice, I would be saying leave the matter alone, do nothing and when they come to enforce it, you can say in your def and c/c that they committed a criminal offence 6,9 or 12mnths ago, to paint them in a very bad light. The problem is, the Consumer Credit Act 1974, is changing and as of April 08 (with certain exceptions) which will mean an agreement will not automatically be unenforceable even if it is fatally flawed. So it's really is important where possible to bring these matters to a conclusion asap. If you can force them to take you to Crt now where you know the agreement is unenforceable, so much the better.

 

You might have to in a couple of cases start claims yourself as things are a lot less certain as of next year and you may end up saddled with a debt because of the law change. Always ask for a copy of a properly executed credit agreement, which should contain yours and their signature, yours and their full address, plus the prescribed terms. It also needs a heading identifying it as credit agreement and any applicable cancellation rights.

 

I would also recommend keeping detailed records of all calls you receive from collection depts and DCA's. Dates, times, name of company, name of person, who called if you are unfortunate to answer the phone. Don't go through security Q's with them, tell them to put everything in writing whatever they say. Always try to get the individual's name at the start of the call, b4 things get unpleasant, because they will refuse later or will lie about their identity. If you have a facility on your phone that logs tel numbers, say whilst your at work, jot the numbers down, ring any unfamiliar ones not forgetting 141 before you dial, so you can see which company has been harassing you. It doesn't matter whether you answered the call or not, ringing 5,6,7 or more times a day is harassment for which you would have a claim for damages against them. It's all about building a case.

 

I hope this is helpful!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.:)

 

Hi Laiste -

 

Yes, as ever, this is extremely helpful and informative. Ensuing posts seem to suggest the change in the law may not affect 'agreements' predating the change. Regardless, I think your strategy is a sound one. I admire your ability to think so tactically! And boldly. I would not want to take you on in a poker game! Or a game of chess, for that matter!

 

So far, only one agreement (for a Northern Rock loan) seems to adhere to the CCA 1974 definition. All the others I have are flawed, if not downright wrong. So, most creditors have technically defaulted. I have 'issued' Default Notices to some but are you advising not to do that, but to let the clock tick?

 

You will see quoted in my previous post a letter written by PriorityOne and I am wondering if this is something that could be sent in response to threats of legal action in order to derail any potential court claims/proceedings? Or do you feel that pushing matters to court will provide more satisfying 'closure'?

 

As for telephone harassment.....I regret not noting the endless calls I began receiving late last year. It was, literally, non stop. However, since I sent a sternly worded opening paragraph in my CCA letters, reminding creditors/debt collectors, that it is my right to request that they only contact me via letter, the calls have basically stopped. A friend who is also being hounded keeps a very loud whistle by the phone and I think she is probably responsible for increased deafness in debt collectors.

 

I hope all your various missions are successful (I've been reading your other thread and posts) and that you are having a fabulous Saturday night and not reading this!

 

CX

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Hi Cristal,

 

I think I must be going a bit mad in my old age!:rolleyes: I have a text that deals with the changes as a result of the 2006 Act. However, I have read it wrong somehow! I must have been drinking pink champagne at the time! After reading Ian's posts, I went back to the book and checked, and the Act isn't retrospective. So agreements taken out prior to 2007 won't be affected by the changes-big sigh of relief for many! Sorry for the duff advice, it's not something I usually give!

 

So, ignore my recommendations in the last post. The advice I am going to give you, is that which I have always given to others. To reduce or get rid of debts, you have to start thinking tactically from the outset. CCA requests should be sent to every creditor or the DCA acting on their behalf. Then do nothing. I have seen people on here sending reminder letters and writing immediately after the prescribed time limit is up. It makes me cringe every time I see someone doing this as they are missing a golden opportunity to significantly reduce or rid themselves of the debt! The only time you should actively pursue them for the agreement is if a Court claim has been issued.

 

Okay, so you request the agreement and lets say 8 months pass without the CCA having been furnished. The matter is in dspute and neither the creditor nor DCA's should be contacting you, as they haven't proved whether an agreement exists or not. So you receive endless calls every day and very threatening letters. If whoever is calling can't get any joy, the matter will invariably be passed to other DCA's for more of the same. This goes on for months..... You don't tell any of the DCA's you speak to (if you're unfortunate enough to answer the call) that you have requested the CCA? Why would you? You are building a marvellous case for unlawful harassment under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997 and section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, as well as other legislation, which is very serious indeed. Here's the rub, if it turns out that no agreement exists or it is fatally flawed, so it doesn't exist, then it is big trouble for all concerned. The creditors and their agents (DCA's) have harassed you for months in respect of a debt that doesn't exist. Your personal info has been shared with 3rd parties unlawfully, which is a breach of the DPA 1998, as you can't have given your consent when no agreement exists;)! Information registered with CRA's amounts to defamation of character, as no debt exists!

 

So at the very least you would have a claim for persistent harassment, which is aggravated by the fact that you requested the CCA 8 mnths ago, which they chose to ignore in favour of threatening and aggressive behaviour! How are they going to explain that to a District Judge? Do you think he is going to be impressed with this sort of conduct and the fact that it took 8mnths to respond to a simple request, absolutely not! These issues as well as giving you a claim for damages, which will reduce or extinguish the debt, it is going to cast the Claimants in a very bad light in front of the Judge and they will not be able to offer any satisfactory answer that the Judge will accept, for their conduct. Even when a Crt claim is issued, creditors will give the impression that they hold all the aces and that judgment against you is inevitable, and it's irrelevant how they've behaved, blah, blah, blah! It is a very different matter altogether when they are sat in front of the Judge as he picks over everything unlawful/illegal they've done!:D Whilst all creditors are basically idiots, some of them do have the presence of the mind not to turn up at Court, or attempt to settle at the 11th hour, to avoid having to answer some very awkward questions....you can understand why!

 

Coming back to an earlier point, if you discover there is no agreement or a fatally flawed one, you can go after every single DCA that has harassed you for compensation, as well as the original creditors of course! So you can see why I cringe when I see people pursuing companies relentlessly over agreements, it is totally illogical! Send the CCA requests, sit back, relax, keep all correspondence you receive, make detailed records of all calls, answered or not, keep those cards that promise a home visit, just stack up the evidence! As the saying goes, give them enough rope to hang themselves!

 

I do puzzle over why people panic about calls from these companies. If you don't play their little game they can't mess with your head. Either choose not to answer their calls at all, you're under no obligation to after all, or if that's not practical, tell them you can't discuss anything over the phone, as you have no way of verifying who they are and you're very security orientated. Or, it's a breach of the DPA 1998 for you to disclose information over the phone, to an unidentified 3rd party! Or tell them to take a long walk off a short bridge, whatever takes your fancy! The point is, you can only get stressed or have sleepless nights if you allow these companies into your life and you believe what they say. Most of what they say is gibberish anyway! The only thing that should ever be taken seriously IMO, is a Court claim! Going to Court is the best solution anyway, so why would anyone be worried by threats of Court action, when that's the best way of resolving matters! Particularly, when you have collated a mass of evidence against said creditor and his agents!

 

By completely ignoring the creditor/DCA's, apart from the few that are very litigious and will start legal action 4 minutes after you've missed a pmt, Court action will be commenced so long after they've defaulted on providing the agreement, you will have had plenty of time to gather lots of evidence against them, to put forward a very strong case seeking damages for the littany of unlawful/illegal conduct they have engaged in, which as I've already said, will significantly reduce, or extinguish the debt (if indeed it exists) and may well give you a reasonable sum in compensation!

 

So my advice is definitely not to try and head off legal action, it's probably just threats at this point anyway. It's a pity you're not getting calls, they help build a case as I've said. People will suggest sending desist from harassing me letters, I don't do that for all the reasons I've outlined. Don't get me wrong, I know the endless calls are a pain the backside, but you don't have to answer them, they just have to be logged. This is all about having in mind the bigger picture, but it does also depend on what you're objectives are. If someone doesn't want to make a claim against the creditor, then send the stop harassing me letter, however if you're objective is to reduce or get rid of the liability, I think such a move is counter-productive to your aims.

 

Sorry the post is so long, I just felt it was appropriate to consider the best course of action (IMO) from the time a request for an agreement is sent. I don't play chess, but I do play tactical and very competitive scrabble!;)

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.:)

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Hi PriorityOne - Thought you'd be interested to hear that I rec'd a letter today from the solicitors, acknowledging receipt of my letter and advising me to respond to the court claim accordingly. I think they might regret that advice when they read the response as brilliantly authored by Laiste in post 42 on this thread. Meanwhile, I hope all continues to be quiet on 'debt row'! Cx

 

Good luck with this Cristal.... it's looking good !! :) Tactics are the name of the game... and a game is what it is. Yes, it IS still very quiet on Debt Row, thanks. ;)

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Laiste, if I could just ask a question as you seem to know what you're talking about.

 

You suggest that after requesting your agreement, if they dont send it within the time limit, not to contact them at all? So you stop making payments and they'll be instantly on your back for the money.

Do you just wait for them to sue you?

 

It seems really risky to me that's all, and I just want to understand the game plan exactly.

When they do take you to court, what if they produce the signed agreement and you get a CCJ against you? The only arguement you'd have would be that they didn't produce it under the rules of CCA1974 wouldn't it? Would this actually prevent them from enforcing the debt? Thanks for the info in the above posts, I will click your scales :)

 

Sorry for the hijack :rolleyes:

Abbey - *SETTLED IN FULL!* ;)

-£445 refunded after one phonecall

HERE

 

Lloyds - Reclaiming Charges ***WON!***

-09/05/07 - Prelim delivered

-22/05/07 - LBA sent - no response

-11/07/07 - Filed at court

- 26/07/07 - Full settlement offer!!!! Donation made ;)

HERE

 

Next - Trying to Sue us with no agreement! :lol:

-29/06/07 - Defence filed

-16/08/07 - AQ filed

-19/09/07 - Claim struck out!! :p

HERE and continued HERE

 

PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES IF I'VE HELPED!

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Hi Monopoly,

 

Yes, I advocate not contacting the creditor/DCA at all, after the agreement has been requested. Their telephone and letter activity will increase when you stop making payments and yes I am suggesting to wait until they sue you.

 

Why does it seem really risky? The harassment will start as soon as payments cease, so you start building your case from then. You are assuming that they will produce a properly executed agreement. From the ones I have seen, many are irredeemably flawed. You have jumped a few steps from them producing an agreement and assuming it's flawless, to getting a CCJ!

 

When you consider the potential liability of the creditor/DCA for harassment, breaches of the DPA, defamation, unlawful registering of a Default Notice and that all this is made 10 times worse for them if the agreement is invalid, I don't see where risk comes into it. I do see a risk however, in relentlessly chasing the creditor/DCA having built no case against them, which significantly reduces any claim for damages you might have against them. At the very worst, if the agreement is valid, you'll only have a claim for harassment. But depending on the level of harassment this may significantly reduce or even rid you of the debt. These are matters which will vary from case to case, so it's impossible to give precise predictions as to the outcome. However, I would contend that the more issues you have to raise in respect of their conduct, the greater the opportunity for getting rid of the debt. If their behaviour cancels out your debt-great! If it reduces it, that's great also. In the end it is better that the matter goes to Court, for finality. If you are in some sort of reduced payment arrangement with the creditor/DCA, your credit rating will effectively be shot to pieces forever and a day! At least if the worst did happen and you got a CCJ, you know it will be over in 6yrs! That's why I say you really do have to consider the bigger picture and whether or not you actions are really doing you any favours. Court will bring matters to a conclusion, which really is the best thing. Who wants to live in constant fear of what the creditor might do next? By being proactive, in the sense of building your case, and preparing yourself and your case for Court, you have nothing to fear! Court action is threatened to get debtors to do what the creditor/DCA wants, it is a very effective leverage tool. My view however is that a change of attitude is required, away from feeling powerless, beholden and cowed by the prospect of Court. Fighting back isn't daunting, acceding to the demands of creditors and DCA's, now that's scary!

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.:)

 

P.S. Many thanks for the click.:)

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Sorry to but in on this thread, but can I have a question for Laiste/anyone?!

 

Have there yet been any cases of a debt going to court, and getting it thrown out because no CCA can be produced?

 

I'd love to think that it will all work out ok, but it would be devastating if I let all of my debts go to court and I lost, rather than paying them a token amount of x amount per month.

 

Thanks as always for everyone's advice :)

 

HouseOfCards

Time to take action :)

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Hi Monopoly,

 

Yes, I advocate not contacting the creditor/DCA at all, after the agreement has been requested. Their telephone and letter activity will increase when you stop making payments and yes I am suggesting to wait until they sue you.

 

Why does it seem really risky? - The whole court process seems scary to me. I feel it's risky because you can never be sure how it will turn out, and it seems too good to be true that the whole enforcability can rest on just one document. I think to myself, I borrowed the money now I have to pay it back. I know a lot of it is at really high rates, which I think are unfair, but I must have agreed at the time. Also, the fact that the debt can we wiped out or significantly reduced just because of a technicality, doesn't seem fair to be honest.The harassment will start as soon as payments cease, so you start building your case from then. You are assuming that they will produce a properly executed agreement. From the ones I have seen, many are irredeemably flawed. You have jumped a few steps from them producing an agreement and assuming it's flawless, to getting a CCJ!-Lol. I always assume the worst outcome possible, that way I can't be disappointed.

 

When you consider the potential liability of the creditor/DCA for harassment, breaches of the Data Protection Act, defamation, unlawful registering of a Default Notice and that all this is made 10 times worse for them if the agreement is invalid, I don't see where risk comes into it.- These banks and credit lenders don't seem to hold the law in very high regard though, and it can be very scary when they are dictating to you what can and han't happen when you don't know all the ins and outs of the law. I do see a risk however, in relentlessly chasing the creditor/DCA having built no case against them, which significantly reduces any claim for damages you might have against them.-I don't think I'd have the time to chase them! I more worried about them taking me to court really. At the very worst, if the agreement is valid, you'll only have a claim for harassment. But depending on the level of harassment this may significantly reduce or even rid you of the debt. These are matters which will vary from case to case, so it's impossible to give precise predictions as to the outcome. However, I would contend that the more issues you have to raise in respect of their conduct, the greater the opportunity for getting rid of the debt. If their behaviour cancels out your debt-great! If it reduces it, that's great also. In the end it is better that the matter goes to Court, for finality. If you are in some sort of reduced payment arrangement with the creditor/DCA, your credit rating will effectively be shot to pieces forever and a day! At least if the worst did happen and you got a CCJ, you know it will be over in 6yrs! That's why I say you really do have to consider the bigger picture and whether or not you actions are really doing you any favours. Court will bring matters to a conclusion, which really is the best thing. Who wants to live in constant fear of what the creditor might do next?- NOT ME! But I do... By being proactive, in the sense of building your case, and preparing yourself and your case for Court, you have nothing to fear! Court action is threatened to get debtors to do what the creditor/DCA wants, it is a very effective leverage tool. My view however is that a change of attitude is required, away from feeling powerless, beholden and cowed by the prospect of Court. Fighting back isn't daunting, acceding to the demands of creditors and DCA's, now that's scary!

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.:)

 

P.S. Many thanks for the click.:)

 

I know what you say makes total sense but it is still a very daunting process to have 6 lenders try to sue me. I will send off the CCA requests tomorrow. And I think I'll start my own thread on it too!

 

There are a few points here that disagree though...http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/83035-guidelines-requests-original-agreement-4.html#post861299 This goes to the post not the entire thread!

 

Sorry again Cristal for the hijack! :)

Many thanks for your thoughts Laiste. ;)

Abbey - *SETTLED IN FULL!* ;)

-£445 refunded after one phonecall

HERE

 

Lloyds - Reclaiming Charges ***WON!***

-09/05/07 - Prelim delivered

-22/05/07 - LBA sent - no response

-11/07/07 - Filed at court

- 26/07/07 - Full settlement offer!!!! Donation made ;)

HERE

 

Next - Trying to Sue us with no agreement! :lol:

-29/06/07 - Defence filed

-16/08/07 - AQ filed

-19/09/07 - Claim struck out!! :p

HERE and continued HERE

 

PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES IF I'VE HELPED!

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Hi Cristal,

 

I think I must be going a bit mad in my old age!:rolleyes: I have a text that deals with the changes as a result of the 2006 Act. However, I have read it wrong somehow! I must have been drinking pink champagne at the time! After reading Ian's posts, I went back to the book and checked, and the Act isn't retrospective. So agreements taken out prior to 2007 won't be affected by the changes-big sigh of relief for many! Sorry for the duff advice, it's not something I usually give!

 

So, ignore my recommendations in the last post. The advice I am going to give you, is that which I have always given to others. To reduce or get rid of debts, you have to start thinking tactically from the outset. CCA requests should be sent to every creditor or the DCA acting on their behalf. Then do nothing. I have seen people on here sending reminder letters and writing immediately after the prescribed time limit is up. It makes me cringe every time I see someone doing this as they are missing a golden opportunity to significantly reduce or rid themselves of the debt! The only time you should actively pursue them for the agreement is if a Court claim has been issued.

 

Okay, so you request the agreement and lets say 8 months pass without the CCA having been furnished. The matter is in dspute and neither the creditor nor DCA's should be contacting you, as they haven't proved whether an agreement exists or not. So you receive endless calls every day and very threatening letters. If whoever is calling can't get any joy, the matter will invariably be passed to other DCA's for more of the same. This goes on for months..... You don't tell any of the DCA's you speak to (if you're unfortunate enough to answer the call) that you have requested the CCA? Why would you? You are building a marvellous case for unlawful harassment under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997 and section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, as well as other legislation, which is very serious indeed. Here's the rub, if it turns out that no agreement exists or it is fatally flawed, so it doesn't exist, then it is big trouble for all concerned. The creditors and their agents (DCA's) have harassed you for months in respect of a debt that doesn't exist. Your personal info has been shared with 3rd parties unlawfully, which is a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, as you can't have given your consent when no agreement exists;)! Information registered with CRA's amounts to defamation of character, as no debt exists!

 

So at the very least you would have a claim for persistent harassment, which is aggravated by the fact that you requested the CCA 8 mnths ago, which they chose to ignore in favour of threatening and aggressive behaviour! How are they going to explain that to a District Judge? Do you think he is going to be impressed with this sort of conduct and the fact that it took 8mnths to respond to a simple request, absolutely not! These issues as well as giving you a claim for damages, which will reduce or extinguish the debt, it is going to cast the Claimants in a very bad light in front of the Judge and they will not be able to offer any satisfactory answer that the Judge will accept, for their conduct. Even when a Crt claim is issued, creditors will give the impression that they hold all the aces and that judgment against you is inevitable, and it's irrelevant how they've behaved, blah, blah, blah! It is a very different matter altogether when they are sat in front of the Judge as he picks over everything unlawful/illegal they've done!:D Whilst all creditors are basically idiots, some of them do have the presence of the mind not to turn up at Court, or attempt to settle at the 11th hour, to avoid having to answer some very awkward questions....you can understand why!

 

Coming back to an earlier point, if you discover there is no agreement or a fatally flawed one, you can go after every single DCA that has harassed you for compensation, as well as the original creditors of course! So you can see why I cringe when I see people pursuing companies relentlessly over agreements, it is totally illogical! Send the CCA requests, sit back, relax, keep all correspondence you receive, make detailed records of all calls, answered or not, keep those cards that promise a home visit, just stack up the evidence! As the saying goes, give them enough rope to hang themselves!

 

I do puzzle over why people panic about calls from these companies. If you don't play their little game they can't mess with your head. Either choose not to answer their calls at all, you're under no obligation to after all, or if that's not practical, tell them you can't discuss anything over the phone, as you have no way of verifying who they are and you're very security orientated. Or, it's a breach of the DPA 1998 for you to disclose information over the phone, to an unidentified 3rd party! Or tell them to take a long walk off a short bridge, whatever takes your fancy! The point is, you can only get stressed or have sleepless nights if you allow these companies into your life and you believe what they say. Most of what they say is gibberish anyway! The only thing that should ever be taken seriously IMO, is a Court claim! Going to Court is the best solution anyway, so why would anyone be worried by threats of Court action, when that's the best way of resolving matters! Particularly, when you have collated a mass of evidence against said creditor and his agents!

 

By completely ignoring the creditor/DCA's, apart from the few that are very litigious and will start legal action 4 minutes after you've missed a pmt, Court action will be commenced so long after they've defaulted on providing the agreement, you will have had plenty of time to gather lots of evidence against them, to put forward a very strong case seeking damages for the littany of unlawful/illegal conduct they have engaged in, which as I've already said, will significantly reduce, or extinguish the debt (if indeed it exists) and may well give you a reasonable sum in compensation!

 

So my advice is definitely not to try and head off legal action, it's probably just threats at this point anyway. It's a pity you're not getting calls, they help build a case as I've said. People will suggest sending desist from harassing me letters, I don't do that for all the reasons I've outlined. Don't get me wrong, I know the endless calls are a pain the backside, but you don't have to answer them, they just have to be logged. This is all about having in mind the bigger picture, but it does also depend on what you're objectives are. If someone doesn't want to make a claim against the creditor, then send the stop harassing me letter, however if you're objective is to reduce or get rid of the liability, I think such a move is counter-productive to your aims.

 

Sorry the post is so long, I just felt it was appropriate to consider the best course of action (IMO) from the time a request for an agreement is sent. I don't play chess, but I do play tactical and very competitive scrabble!;)

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.:)

 

Hi Laiste -

 

I too am a Scrabble addict....my affection for two letter high scoring words on the triples is limitless.....

 

Thank you so much for this post and your later post. Your strategy is comprehensive. And v. gutsy!

 

It's a little late for me to employ it 100% and I have to admit that, though I do have a high tolerance for pain, even I couldn't stand the 40 to 50 calls I was getting everyday. I've also already done what you as vise not to, i.e., sent reminders and default notices. When Creditors and DCAs respond to an SAR, aren't they bound by law to provide you with details of times, dates and contents of calls?

 

As another poster asked today, is there evidence of other cases where the court found in favour of the defendant when the Creditor was unable to produce a solid agreement? If I follow your tactics, I will be staring down the barrel of possibly a dozen court claims. It would be helpful to know if there have been precedents.

 

As ever, I defer to your elegant use of your legal expertise!

 

Best,

Cx

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Hi Cristal, HoC and Monopoly,

 

Let me start by saying that if you know what you're looking for in an agreement and if that document lacks the prescribed terms it is entirely unenforceable. Look at sections 60 and 61 of the CCA 1974 and the Agreement Regulations 1983. A Court simply cannot enforce an agreement against you if it lacks these vital elements. If a real fear of going to Court exists, I don't think anything I have said or will say, or the legislation and Regs I point you inthe direction of, are going to make a difference. You do have to be prepared to see this through, and part of that process is reading around the applicable Acts and get yourselves clued up!

 

Monopoly, you have mentioned issues of fairness and honesty. If you believe you owe the money and should pay it, that is a decision based on morality and not the law. I'm afraid I only deal with the legality of credit agreements and the conduct of the creditors and their agents, I don't view debts from a moral perspective, only a legal one! Banks and credit card companies may not hold the law in very high regard, but it's not about what they think is important! It is a District Judge that they will have to answer to, who is responsible for upholding the law, regardless of how creditors/DCA's feel about it and what they threaten!

 

I'm not saying that receiving lots of calls is anything other than a pain in the a***, but you have to ask yourself what you want at the end of day. Some options will give you an easy life now, but if getting rid of/reducing debts is your objective, you have to do what is necessary to bring that about. Yes, creditors/DCA's are obliged to furnish you with details of calls if you request it under a SAR, whether they do provide full details is another matter entirely, which is why you MUST keep your own records.

 

Not all of your creditors will start legal action at the same time, it will be staggered, and once you become familiar with the process, it gets easier and easier! Not all cases will go to trial either. Those that know they don't stand an earthly will look to settle with you. Only a small percentage of cases ever reach the inside of a Courtroom!

 

I realise that not everyone will be up for what I'm advocating, but if you think about it, you don't know that your creditors at some point won't take you to Court! Much better to arm yourself for that eventuality. Consider also, that if the country goes into an economic downturn at some point, you can expect more aggressive methods of collection, including charging orders etc....these are just things to consider! Ultimately, everyone has to do what they are comfortable with!

 

I'm the champion scrabbler in our house Cristal, although I get very little time to play...too busy!:rolleyes:

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.:)

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It wont let me do it again. It tell me to spread some around other people first! I agree entirely though. I wish I had the confidence in the courts and the fact that creditors won't really want to take me there that Laiste has. Maybe I will after I actually win some money back...

Abbey - *SETTLED IN FULL!* ;)

-£445 refunded after one phonecall

HERE

 

Lloyds - Reclaiming Charges ***WON!***

-09/05/07 - Prelim delivered

-22/05/07 - LBA sent - no response

-11/07/07 - Filed at court

- 26/07/07 - Full settlement offer!!!! Donation made ;)

HERE

 

Next - Trying to Sue us with no agreement! :lol:

-29/06/07 - Defence filed

-16/08/07 - AQ filed

-19/09/07 - Claim struck out!! :p

HERE and continued HERE

 

PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES IF I'VE HELPED!

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I really don't expect reputation clicks every five minutes! I appreciate Nitrous Oxides lovely comments, but I don't want anyone to feel obligated!

 

Monopoly, this isn't really about having "faith" as such. Faith connotes having a belief in something other than the law as it stands. A Judge has to uphold the law, so providing you have prepared your arguments and established with the help of people on here that the agreements you have are unenforceable, you have nothing to worry about! What's the expression, "feel the fear and do it anyway". A bit corny perhaps, but as I've already said, you have no way of knowing what you're creditors will do, they might sell on your debts to 3rd parties eager to go to Court, they might also decide that it is time to go to Court to seek judgment. The way things stand now, you are subject to the whims and fancies of organisations not known for their kindness, particularly towards people in debt!

 

All I am suggesting is putting a plan into action that gives you the best possible chance of dealing with your debts that benefits YOU! If you let your fears paralyse you and make decisions based on emotion rather than logic, I can guarantee you will live to regret it. There was a time when nobody would have dreamed of challenging the banks and c/c's over penalty charges, these were organisations beyond scrutiny. I am advocating taking things that step further and looking closely at your agreements to see if there is a legally enforceable contract. If you want to get into the issue of, well I've had and spent the money, therefore I'm obliged to pay it back. Consider this, when you applied for a credit card say, you were making an offer of your business to the Company, which they could accept or reject. They had a fundamental legal duty to provide you with the correct documentation to create a legally binding agreement. If they haven't done that, I ask you, who is really at fault? Before you spent the money, they sent you an agreement to sign or not, as is the case for a number of people. So which came first, their unlawful behaviour regarding the agreement or the money you spent? The old "two wrongs, don't make a right" doesn't hold up here, before anyone suggests

it!:rolleyes: The fact is, the law DEMANDS that creditors have the exact paperwork when entering into contracts with customers? Why? Well customers are in a very vulnerable position, the majority don't know the law and they have to be protected, that is the primary purpose of the CCA 1974. Also, when you sign an agreement, you have not negotiated that contract, you are signing up to the terms and conditions drafted by the Company. That's a lot of power they possess and have over you, so they have to get things RIGHT, full stop! Hold them to account, don't feel powerless and beholden, they want you to feel that way! These companies are money making machines and the bottom line for them is making/saving money, even if they have to destroy your life in the process. Think about the kindness and understanding they've shown

you,:x and you will soon find your strength to fight back!:D

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.:)

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Thanks again Laiste. You're definitly a confidence booster! :)

I've drafted up 6 letters now (total cost of £12.24 to send lol). I'll just have to wait and see what comes back....

Abbey - *SETTLED IN FULL!* ;)

-£445 refunded after one phonecall

HERE

 

Lloyds - Reclaiming Charges ***WON!***

-09/05/07 - Prelim delivered

-22/05/07 - LBA sent - no response

-11/07/07 - Filed at court

- 26/07/07 - Full settlement offer!!!! Donation made ;)

HERE

 

Next - Trying to Sue us with no agreement! :lol:

-29/06/07 - Defence filed

-16/08/07 - AQ filed

-19/09/07 - Claim struck out!! :p

HERE and continued HERE

 

PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES IF I'VE HELPED!

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Share on other sites

I really don't expect reputation clicks every five minutes! I appreciate Nitrous Oxides lovely comments, but I don't want anyone to feel obligated!

 

Monopoly, this isn't really about having "faith" as such. Faith connotes having a belief in something other than the law as it stands. A Judge has to uphold the law, so providing you have prepared your arguments and established with the help of people on here that the agreements you have are unenforceable, you have nothing to worry about! What's the expression, "feel the fear and do it anyway". A bit corny perhaps, but as I've already said, you have no way of knowing what you're creditors will do, they might sell on your debts to 3rd parties eager to go to Court, they might also decide that it is time to go to Court to seek judgment. The way things stand now, you are subject to the whims and fancies of organisations not known for their kindness, particularly towards people in debt!

 

All I am suggesting is putting a plan into action that gives you the best possible chance of dealing with your debts that benefits YOU! If you let your fears paralyse you and make decisions based on emotion rather than logic, I can guarantee you will live to regret it. There was a time when nobody would have dreamed of challenging the banks and c/c's over penalty charges, these were organisations beyond scrutiny. I am advocating taking things that step further and looking closely at your agreements to see if there is a legally enforceable contract. If you want to get into the issue of, well I've had and spent the money, therefore I'm obliged to pay it back. Consider this, when you applied for a credit card say, you were making an offer of your business to the Company, which they could accept or reject. They had a fundamental legal duty to provide you with the correct documentation to create a legally binding agreement. If they haven't done that, I ask you, who is really at fault? Before you spent the money, they sent you an agreement to sign or not, as is the case for a number of people. So which came first, their unlawful behaviour regarding the agreement or the money you spent? The old "two wrongs, don't make a right" doesn't hold up here, before anyone suggests

it!:rolleyes: The fact is, the law DEMANDS that creditors have the exact paperwork when entering into contracts with customers? Why? Well customers are in a very vulnerable position, the majority don't know the law and they have to be protected, that is the primary purpose of the CCA 1974. Also, when you sign an agreement, you have not negotiated that contract, you are signing up to the terms and conditions drafted by the Company. That's a lot of power they possess and have over you, so they have to get things RIGHT, full stop! Hold them to account, don't feel powerless and beholden, they want you to feel that way! These companies are money making machines and the bottom line for them is making/saving money, even if they have to destroy your life in the process. Think about the kindness and understanding they've shown

you,:x and you will soon find your strength to fight back!:D

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.:)

 

L! You are an inspiration....I think I might start a thread asking for the ultimate results to CCA requests. It could be very insightful. what do you think?

 

Incidentally, I, too , am in Scrabble withdrawal....no one likes my little two letter words and I would never dream of playing without the official Scrabble dictionary by my side...so am short of opponents!

Cx

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi There all. I`ve just put in my defence to the Court r.e.- lack of response to a CCA Request/ Lack of a Deed Of Assignment/ Lack of a Statutory Default Notice. I had 2 hrs. to send it off as I was on holiday and found out when I got back that the Defence had not been received even though `someone` had signed for it!

 

Have a look at my thread- and Laiste I would appreciate your input- and yes I`ve just tipped your scales!!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/89660-help-old-debtor-ccj.html

Any feeling that I`ve helped you today- then add to my reputation and click those scales!

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  • 4 weeks later...
L! You are an inspiration....I think I might start a thread asking for the ultimate results to CCA requests. It could be very insightful. what do you think?

 

Incidentally, I, too , am in Scrabble withdrawal....no one likes my little two letter words and I would never dream of playing without the official Scrabble dictionary by my side...so am short of opponents!

Cx

 

Hi Laiste -

 

well, I rec'd a Transfer of Proceedings today to a court nearer me. CL Finance is diggiing ther heels in....I may need help with this questionnaire. Might you be available?

 

i am also being threatened with bankruptcy re a loan by 1st Credit....the agreement looks ok, except it's missing the cancellation clause. I understand that the required terms on a loan agreement are different from a credit card agreement. Do you kow anything abou this?

 

Hope you're well.....CX

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  • 3 years later...

Cant respond yet DD the layout has gone beserk must be Webby fine tuning;)

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Dont know how I ended up here layout gone crazy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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