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Petrol costs RISING and RISNG


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Anyone got any thoughts on the massive rises in petrol costs?

 

Before the budget petrol was hovering around the 90.9 to 91.9 and falling from pervious highs.

BP and SHELL and no dought other big petrol providers have indicated huge profits and stated that the price of oil has lowered in the last few weeks/month, althought there state that there are producing less oil/petrol due to some refinieries closing...

 

In the last Two weeks BP near myself ie Birmimgham have rised there prices not once not twice but FOUR times today it stands at 97.9

 

I know prices rise at times but the odd penny ere another penny there and before you know it, the price will reach over the pound a litre mark.

 

In Oct the Budget increase will be added to the price of the petrol, but how many increases will occur before then, at the currant rate, i can see the price hitting the pound plus mark well before Oct.

 

The dearest price i have found is BP at 97.9 and the cheapest been Tesco and Asda at 93.9 anyone got cheaper or have a dearer station??

 

Few years back, there had demos when petrol started to rise in silly amounts, i recall the big convour going down the M6 in protest at the prices at the pumps, where are these demos now, or is that a thing of the past, are us car/van and wagon drivers just putting up with big fuel providers rising the cost of Petrol whenever there desire.

 

These companies must think we don't notice the pennies there keep adding, there know we need the fuel to get from A to B hence there have us over a barrel so to speak, (excuse the pun lol )

 

Happy motoring all and drive safe, clunk click :)

!2 years Tesco distribution supervisor

7 years Sainsburys Transport Manager

 

4 Years housing officer ( Lettings )

Partner... 23 Years social services depts

 

All advice is given through own opition, also by seeking/searching info on behalf of poster, and own personnel dealings.

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LPG anyone?

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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Here in NI BP's prices are consistently amongst the highest, and have been for some time.

 

More biodiesel outlets are opening, especially in rural areas. My current car can't use it, but I plan to change in the next month or so, and the next one will be able to use biodiesel.

 

I had a V8 Land Rover with LPG before (only put perol in it 3 times in 2 years!). The only problem I can see with LPG is that if it becomes very popular, Broon, the Thief of Downing Street (or whichever puppet he installs as Chancellor), will simply increase the tax.

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Price hikes in petrol prices have sometimes originated from the Americans who have surreptitiously used them as a hidden worldwide tax to defray costs they might be incurring elsewhere (the war in Iraq, for example. or to save the oil companies from financial ruin). The US is able to impose this tax because the world price of oil is denominated in dollars

 

The most famous rise in oil price took place in 1973/4 when the price quadrupled – seemingly overnight. Those of us old enough to remember this event will also remember the distress and difficulties that followed in its wake.

 

I have included below a “snipped” article from The Observer newspaper, dated January 14th 2001 in which Sheik Yamani – the Saudi oil minister during the 1973/4 oil price hike – reveals the Americans hand in manipulating this oil price increase.

 

This bit of old history may still be relevant today. During the 1970’s the US was still engaged in a hugely costly war in Vietnam that impacted adversely on their budget deficits. Today they are engaged in a costly war in Iraq.

 

This is not to argue the case that today’s price hikes are a result of covert US intervention, but merely to point out the slim possibility that there is connection. After all once a mechanism has been put in place and successfully tested, the temptation is to use it again and again…

 

Saudi dove in the oil slick

 

Sheikh Yamani tells Oliver Morgan and Faisal Islam why a production cut would hurt everyone - even Opec

 

Special report: the petrol war

 

Sunday January 14, 2001

The Observer

 

 

Snip…

The sheikh says he does not miss the day-to-day cut and thrust that characterised the Seventies oil crisis. However, it is with a smile that he adds: 'When you deal with oil you have to take so many other things into consideration.'

The suggestion is that politics, rather than economics, is the key. And the fascination of oil diplomacy clearly animates him more than the numbers, which he can rattle effortlessly off the top of his elegant head.

The key political question in his mind now is the same as it was in 1973 - relations between Israel and its Arab neighbours.

'It is very worrying,' he says. 'Barak is cornered. He brought back his Foreign Minister from Paris, met him in the airport and said "Go and talk to the Palestinians." The man is desperate.'

He singles out the period between 20 January, when President Clinton leaves office, and 6 February, the date of Israeli elections, as especially sensitive times, given recent Middle Eastern history.

The implications for oil prices are unquantifiable. But Yamani ventures: 'Perhaps people will panic and think they have to buy oil.'

However, he is at pains to point out that the global political backdrop is now very different.

His voice quickens further when he reminisces about the era of great oil diplomacy in the Seventies and his contemporary, former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

At this point he makes an extraordinary claim: 'I am 100 per cent sure that the Americans were behind the increase in the price of oil. The oil companies were in in real trouble at that time, they had borrowed a lot of money and they needed a high oil price to save them.'

He says he was convinced of this by the attitude of the Shah of Iran, who in one crucial day in 1974 moved from the Saudi view, that a hike would be dangerous to Opec because it would alienate the US, to advocating higher prices.

'King Faisal sent me to the Shah of Iran, who said: "Why are you against the increase in the price of oil? That is what they want? Ask Henry Kissinger - he is the one who wants a higher price".'

Yamani contends that proof of his long-held belief has recently emerged in the minutes of a secret meeting on a Swedish island, where UK and US officials determined to orchestrate a 400 per cent increase in the oil price.

These extraordinary insights come as US/Opec relations once again return to the spotlight: President-elect George W Bush last week warned Opec of the implications of a price hike.

Snip…

The more I read this site, the more congratulations I want to heap on CAG for the invaluable service they are performing. Bravo!

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Interesting conspiracy theory. The reality on the ground is that more than 75% of the price of petrol in the UK is made up of taxes imposed by the UK government. This has more to do with raising as much money as possible from the taxpayer so that the government can waste it.

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Interesting conspiracy theory. The reality on the ground is that more than 75% of the price of petrol in the UK is made up of taxes imposed by the UK government. This has more to do with raising as much money as possible from the taxpayer so that the government can waste it.

 

It makes not a jot of difference. The price of "gas" in the US is considerably less that it is here and always has been. Also, the Chancellor benefits from externally generated price hikes even if funds were/are being covertly siphoned off by the Americans.

 

As to "conspiracy thoery" well, if Sheikh Yamani (back in the 1970's he used to be known by the name "Shake-yer-money) holds that these events happened, then who are we to doubt him. After all he was the Saudi oil minister at the time that the oil price was hiked up 400% and was thus on the inside track of these events.

 

Shoestring

The more I read this site, the more congratulations I want to heap on CAG for the invaluable service they are performing. Bravo!

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Petrol in the US is cheaper than in the UK because it is not taxed to anywhere near the same levels that it is here.

 

Yes, obviously. But that still doesn't impact sudden price fluctuations. The Chancellor imposes his levy each Budget and that's it as far as government driven price rises are concerned. World-wide prices are determined by the spot price of "benchmark" crudes - a system tha was introduced in the 1980's and which act as a barometer of oil prices.

 

This is a complex subject, but suffice it to say that oil prices are influenced by any number of factors -- an outbreak of war in the Persian Gulf vicinity being a major determinant. Contractions in supply is another.

 

During the 1973 oil price hike, the prime minsiter was Edward Heath. He instructed BP to redirect it crude shipments from Europe, Japan and elsewhere in the world to the UK, to alleviate the dreaded 3-day weeks that occured under his premiership. BP told him to "f - off" and continued shipping as they were.

 

So much for the power of the prime minister over the oil cartel.

 

The US dollar remains "backed" by oil. That is why they can - and do - influence the price when and as necessary.

 

Shoestring

The more I read this site, the more congratulations I want to heap on CAG for the invaluable service they are performing. Bravo!

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It is worth pointing out that the US does not have the clout any more as countries are starting to adopt petro-euros.

 

I would also submit that Yamani's conspiracy theory does not stack up; even when all oil was traded in dollars.

 

The price of a barrel of crude oil is $X. This is the price that anybody pays, even if they are not a $ economy. The price is agreed between the supplier (eg. Saudi Arabia) and the importer (eg UK). The US can only affect that price by revaluing the dollar against the importer's currency - most large economies have reserves of other currencies, so any effect would take some time to feed through. To quadruple the price to the consumer, would require a massive movement in the relationship between the two currencies and nothing on this scale happened.

 

Around the '70's the £ was near parity with the dollar for a while but that is as bad as it got and over 30+ years the movement has been the other way in that the £ is worth nearly $2

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patdavies, yes, I understand what you are saying and there is a great deal of debate about crude being denominated in euros rather than dollars. It is of some interest that Saddam announced to the world, circa Novemeber 2000, that he intended to sell Iraqi oil (the UN sanctioned oil for food programme) denominated in Euros.

 

I can't imagine anything more that would rile and inflame the Texan oil community.

 

Fifteen months later, Texan George Bush, who's father is an oilman (Zapata oil), whose Vice President, Dick Cheney is an oilman (Halliburton) ordered the invasion Iraq on the spurious grounds that he wished to disarm that state of weapons of mass destruction - that were known not to exist. Later, the US and Britain described this invasion as "regime change" to ouster Saddam, another description that was/is also untrue.

 

Whether Europe ultimately see oil denominated in euros rather than dollars depends (I think) on whether the euro becomes the global reserve currency, a role the diollar currently serves. The US will die in flames rather than let that happen, but you never know...

 

Shoestring

The more I read this site, the more congratulations I want to heap on CAG for the invaluable service they are performing. Bravo!

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The previous fuel protests effectively blockaded the refineries - since then, legislation has been put in place to make this illegal.

 

Tony Blair's government wet themselves when people used their power as individuals to overturn a wicked rise in fuel costs (the "fuel escalator"). Similar action brought down dictatorships in eastern Europe.

 

They then changed the rules to make such acts arrestable in future - and nobody in parliament stood up for us common people.

 

Could you ever imagine the French government having a hope in hell of getting such legislation authorised? Even the democratic election of a new president caused "minor" rioting from the losers with hundreds of cars being burnt out, and over 200 arrests!

 

We English are too laid back and weak.

On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Read anything I write with the above in mind.

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We English are too laid back and weak.

 

We English have been "well trained" over the centuries.

 

Shoestring

The more I read this site, the more congratulations I want to heap on CAG for the invaluable service they are performing. Bravo!

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Thanks for the intresting thoughts on this issue, :) guess we need our transport to get us from A to B work and pleasure, hence we have to put up with the costs made upon us, intresting read other day, in the sun, a cleaner in the house of commons paid £11k per year gives back over £4k + in taxes in one form or another to the goverment she works for, taxed while we drive, while we eat and while we sleep, back to the fuel issue, noticed again the BP near me raised the fuel by another penny, since me posting the thread, think the fuel most definently going to reach the pound mark before the budget increase is added, shame i could'nt buy a push bike, but think the 48 mile round trip to and from work is even pushing my limits some-what. :)

!2 years Tesco distribution supervisor

7 years Sainsburys Transport Manager

 

4 Years housing officer ( Lettings )

Partner... 23 Years social services depts

 

All advice is given through own opition, also by seeking/searching info on behalf of poster, and own personnel dealings.

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I heard an item on the radio the other day where it was stated that petrol always goes up this time of year because the USA puts a strain on production as all those gas guzzling yank-tanks take to the road on summer holidays.

 

So we pay through the nose to allow them to waddle off in there mobile-houses paying half what we do per litre. Now there's consumerism in action.

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It makes not a jot of difference. The price of "gas" in the US is considerably less that it is here and always has been.

 

Americans complain when it reaches $3 a gallon - a little over £1.50 in proper money. The difference is down to fuel duty. If the US government even considered the level of taxation we have on petrol here,

 

Also, the Chancellor benefits from externally generated price hikes even if funds were/are being covertly siphoned off by the Americans.

 

Not really. Fuel duty is not charged in proportion, but at a rate of pence per litre, regardless of the actual underlying price of the petrol (I believe the duty is somewhere in the range of 60p/l). Granted - VAT is charged, which depends on the price, but it is charged on the total price: you typically pay around 16p/litre in VAT, and around 12p of that is a result of the fuel duty alone.

 

As to "conspiracy thoery" well, if Sheikh Yamani (back in the 1970's he used to be known by the name "Shake-yer-money) holds that these events happened, then who are we to doubt him.

 

At around the same time, the CIA would have had us believing that global terrorism was being co-ordinated by the USSR as a front for spreading communism. Yamani is entitled to his opinions. We are entitled to reject them.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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No disrespect intended Meagan, but I think the focus on fuel duty is far too narrow for a subject that is so manifestly broad (I agree that UK fuel revenue is set at an abominably high rate btw - in case you thought I was championing the Chancellor or the UK tax system).

 

Questions that might be asked are: when oil prices are forced up who is it who benefits from the additional flow of money paid by car users around the world?

 

And what happens to that money? (what happened to it back in the 1970's?)

 

What was the purpose behind the introduction of "petro dollars" to the world and the creation of the Eurobond market centred in London at around this time?

 

Are you aware of the protocol signed between the US and Saudi, circa 1975, that was classified under National Security considerations that governed the negotiated investment of Saudi petro dollars into the US Treasury market - and why this was needed?

 

While you are certainly entitled to disregard what you like to call a "conspiracy theory" regarding Sheikh Yamani's comments, I wonder if you have seen a copy of the secret document that Yamani was talking about in that interview? I have.

 

Also, what wasn't reported in the press at the time (2001) - or since to my knowledge - was a presentation given to Chatham House about this same subject. Further, the person driving the 1973/4 price hike was the Shah of Iran, a US puppet. Do you really think he would've have engineered the other Arab producers into agreeing a price rise if the US didn't want him to do that?

 

I keep reading the comment you made about the CIA and Russian responsibility for the rise of global terrorism and, forgive me for being slow, but I'm not sure what point you're making here?

 

Shoestring

The more I read this site, the more congratulations I want to heap on CAG for the invaluable service they are performing. Bravo!

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Guest ArthurP

I'd say the year on year above inflation raise in Council Tax is more unfair and annoying than petrol price rises.

 

In opposition, pre-1997, this government pledged to overhaul and even rid this scandlous tax yet mine has increased nearly 400% in just six years.

 

How can your council even be allowed to increase a charge on its residents at a level that, more than likely, outstrips any wage increase I will gain for the year? It's a disgrace.

 

At least in this country our fuel may be high but we have very few toll roads unlike the continent. For the time being at least.

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I'd say the year on year above inflation raise in Council Tax is more unfair and annoying than petrol price rises.

 

In opposition, pre-1997, this government pledged to overhaul and even rid this scandlous tax yet mine has increased nearly 400% in just ten years.

 

How can your council even be allowed to increase a charge on its residents at a level that, more than likely, outstrips any wage increase I will gain for the year? It's a disgrace.

 

At least in this country our fuel may be high but we have very few toll roads unlike the continent. For the time being at least.

 

I remember watching a TV programme that said (or at least I think it did) that the revenue collected by your local council was fed into Whitehall and they returned a portion of it to the council to use and kept the rest... something like that anyway. Therefore a hidden government tax.

 

It is a disgrace, I agree. And if the government have their way, all main road arteries will become toll roads, where devices are fitted to cars and read by satellite and you will be charged per mile!

 

So there you have it - ripoff Britain. Robbed by everyone in commerce and also by everyone in government (local and national).

 

Shoestring

The more I read this site, the more congratulations I want to heap on CAG for the invaluable service they are performing. Bravo!

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I remember watching a TV programme that said (or at least I think it did) that the revenue collected by your local council was fed into Whitehall and they returned a portion of it to the council to use and kept the rest... something like that anyway. Therefore a hidden government tax.

 

 

Not quite.

 

Council tax is collected by and retained by local government. However, the level of business rates is set by central government.(uniform business rates)

Central government fund over 50% of council spending from central taxes.

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400% in 10 years is pretty steep in any circumstances, but remember that on top of this in the last 10 years we've had some of the lowest inflation we've ever known!

 

It turns out that the price of petrol in real terms (before duty, VAT and VAT-on-duty, adjusted for inflation), has actually gown down 30% in the last 20 years, while the actual price at the pump has increased above inflation (though only slightly).

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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400% in 10 years is pretty steep in any circumstances, but remember that on top of this in the last 10 years we've had some of the lowest inflation we've ever known!

 

It turns out that the price of petrol in real terms (before duty, VAT and VAT-on-duty, adjusted for inflation), has actually gown down 30% in the last 20 years, while the actual price at the pump has increased above inflation (though only slightly).

 

On the other hand, we almost had a £4.00 gallon just two years ago, which has never been seen before in the UK, as I recall. I believe this followed on the footsteps of the invasion of Iraq.

 

Back in 1973, the cost of a barrel of crude was around $3.00. More recently, the price of a barrel was approaching $80.00.

 

However, the focus of my post was the high spikes rather than the long term trend.

 

Shoestring

 

 

 

Shoestring

The more I read this site, the more congratulations I want to heap on CAG for the invaluable service they are performing. Bravo!

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Guest ArthurP
400% in 10 years is pretty steep in any circumstances, but remember that on top of this in the last 10 years we've had some of the lowest inflation we've ever known!

 

 

My mistake-my Council Tax has increased about 400% in 6 years and not 10!! This is how long I have had a mortgage and here in Wales we have had rebanding.

 

To think this is a Council being allowed to charge this it is an absolute scandal.

 

A petrol price comparison in the same period would make the price of a litre about £2.50.

 

And this tax is not based on ability to pay but about the ever increasing price of your abode!

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My mistake-my Council Tax has increased about 400% in 6 years and not 10!! This is how long I have had a mortgage and here in Wales we have had rebanding.

 

Is that 400% including the result of rebanding?

 

And this tax is not based on ability to pay but about the ever increasing price of your abode!

 

Especially heinous since you are having to face an increased rating because of buy-to-let millionaires, who don't pay a penny of it. I still remain of the opinion that since council tax is based on the notional rental value of the property, in the case of rented properties it should be paid by the landlord and not the tenant.

 

To get back to spikes in the oil price, such changes rarely affect consumers. If a spike gets very, very severe, then it may become necessary for garages to put a few pennies on the price of petrol for a short time, which can be mitigated (though this usually results in more pressure on supply). On the other hand, we have to just put up with the regular penny or two of duty that goes on every year.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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