District Judge Cooke. On a mission?

[podgydad]

I run a regulated Claims Management company and this morning received a General Form of Judgement from Judge Cooke basically suggesting we were committing a criminal offence under section 20, 21, and 22 of the Solicitors Act 1974.

 

We are of course seeking legal advice on this issue.

[curlychic]

OMG

whatever next ??????

[Stornoway]

I run a regulated Claims Management company and this morning received a General Form of Judgement from Judge Cooke basically suggesting we were committing a criminal offence under section 20, 21, and 22 of the Solicitors Act 1974.

 

We are of course seeking legal advice on this issue.

I predict that his recent actions will completely clear his court of bank charges claims within the next few months - would anyone risk using Birmingham from now on ?

[podgydad]

I predict that his recent actions will completely clear his court of bank charges claims within the next few months - would anyone risk using Birmingham from now on ?

 

Of course, if one was being cynical one could suggest that.

[hudu]

Odd.

 

Is someone out to make a name for themselves?

[Destinyofsouls]

If you are preparing court documents and putting your name address on the form for service, unless you are a qualified solicitor, you are committing an offence.

[Mindzai]

I run a regulated Claims Management company and this morning received a General Form of Judgement from Judge Cooke basically suggesting we were committing a criminal offence under section 20, 21, and 22 of the Solicitors Act 1974.

 

We are of course seeking legal advice on this issue.

 

Somebody shake that Judge's hand.

[flower19]

What is happening???!!!

 

I am starting to get confused...why are you commiting a criminal offence?!

[lucid]

Sections 20 - 22 of the Solicitors Act 1974:

 

20.Unqualified person not to act as solicitor

(1) No unqualified person shall –

(a) act as a solicitor, or as such issue any writ or process, or commence, prosecute or defend any action, suit or other proceeding, in his own name or in the name of any other person, in any court of civil or criminal jurisdiction; or

(b) act as a solicitor in any cause or matter, civil or criminal, to be heard or determined before any justice or justices or any commissioners of Her Majesty’s revenue.

(2) Any person who contravenes the provisions of subsection (1) –

(a) shall be guilty of an offence and liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for not more than two years or to a fine or to both; and

(b) shall be guilty of contempt of the court in which the action, suit, cause, matter or proceeding in relation to which he so acts is brought or taken and may be punished accordingly;

© [repealed]

[NOTES

1. Section 27(10) of the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990 provides that section 20 shall not apply in relation to any act done in the exercise of a right of audience, and section 28(6) of that Act provides that section 20 shall not apply in relation to any act done in the exercise of a right to conduct litigation.

2. Section 9(3) of the Administration of Justice Act 1985 provides that, notwithstanding section 24(2) of the Solicitors Act 1974, section 20 shall not apply to a recognised body (i.e. an incorporated practice recognised under section 9 of the 1985 Act).

3. Further amendment of section 20 by Schedule 18 paragraph 11 of the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990 (containing further exemptions from section 20) not yet in force as at 31st March 1999.]

21. Unqualified person not to pretend to be a solicitor

Any unqualified person who wilfully pretends to be, or takes or uses any name, title, addition or description implying that he is, qualified or recognised by law as qualified to act as a solicitor shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding the fourth level on the standard scale.

22. Unqualified person not to prepare certain instruments

(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (2A), any unqualified person who directly or indirectly –

(a) draws or prepares any instrument of transfer or charge for the purposes of the Land Registration Act 1925, or makes any application or lodges any document for registration under that Act at the registry, or

(b) draws or prepares any other instrument relating to real or personal estate, or any legal proceeding,

shall, unless he proves that the act was not done for or in expectation of any fee, gain or reward, be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to –

(a) a barrister or duly certificated notary public;

(aa) a registered trade mark agent drawing or preparing any instrument relating to any design or trade mark;

(ab) a registered patent agent drawing or preparing any instrument relating to any invention, design, technical information or trade mark;

(ac) any accredited person drawing or preparing any instrument –

(i) which creates, or which he believes on reasonable grounds will create, a farm business tenancy (within the meaning of the Agricultural Tenancies Act 1995), or

(ii) which relates to an existing tenancy which is, or which he believes on reasonable grounds to be, such a tenancy;

(b) any public officer drawing or preparing instruments or applications in the course of his duty;

© any person employed merely to engross any instrument, application or proceeding;

and paragraph (b) of that subsection does not apply to a duly certificated solicitor in Scotland.

(2A) Subsection (1) also does not apply to any act done by a person at the direction and under the supervision of another person if –

(a) that other person was at the time his employer, a partner of his employer or a fellow employee; and

(b) the act could have been done by that other person for or in expectation of any fee, gain or reward without committing an offence under this section.

(3) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), "instrument" includes a contract for the sale or other disposition of land (except a contract to grant such a lease as is referred to in section 54(2) of the Law of Property Act 1925 (short leases)), but does not include –

(a) a will or other testamentary instrument;

(b) an agreement not intended to be executed as a deed other than a contract that is included by virtue of the preceding provisions of this subsection;

© a letter or power of attorney; or

(d) a transfer of stock containing no trust or limitation thereof.

(3A) In subsection (2) –

"accredited person" means any person who is –

(a) a Full Member of the Central Association of Agricultural Valuers,

(b) an Associate or Fellow of the Incorporated Society of Valuers and Auctioneers, or

© an Associate or Fellow of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors;

"registered trade mark agent" has the same meaning as in the Trade Marks Act 1994; and

"registered patent agent" has the same meaning as in section 275(1) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.

(4) A local weights and measures authority may institute proceedings for an offence under this section.

Found on The Law Society

 

I think section 20 is probably most relevant and is the reason podgydad has had a letter from the Judge.

 

Lucid

[rory32]

Couldn't agree with Mindzai more.

 

20.Unqualified person not to act as solicitor

(1) No unqualified person shall –

(a) act as a solicitor, or as such issue any writ or process, or commence, prosecute or defend any action, suit or other proceeding, in his own name or in the name of any other person, in any court of civil or criminal jurisdiction; or

(b) act as a solicitor in any cause or matter, civil or criminal, to be heard or determined before any justice or justices or any commissioners of Her Majesty’s revenue.

(2) Any person who contravenes the provisions of subsection (1) –

(a) shall be guilty of an offence and liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for not more than two years or to a fine or to both; and

(b) shall be guilty of contempt of the court in which the action, suit, cause, matter or proceeding in relation to which he so acts is brought or taken and may be punished accordingly;

© [repealed]

21. Unqualified person not to pretend to be a solicitor

Any unqualified person who wilfully pretends to be, or takes or uses any name, title, addition or description implying that he is, qualified or recognised by law as qualified to act as a solicitor shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding the fourth level on the standard scale.

22. Unqualified person not to prepare certain instruments

(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (2A), any unqualified person who directly or indirectly –

(a) draws or prepares any instrument of transfer or charge for the purposes of the Land Registration Act 1925, or makes any application or lodges any document for registration under that Act at the registry, or

(b) draws or prepares any other instrument relating to real or personal estate, or any legal proceeding,

shall, unless he proves that the act was not done for or in expectation of any fee, gain or reward, be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to –

(a) a barrister or duly certificated notary public;

(aa) a registered trade mark agent drawing or preparing any instrument relating to any design or trade mark;

(ab) a registered patent agent drawing or preparing any instrument relating to any invention, design, technical information or trade mark;

(ac) any accredited person drawing or preparing any instrument –

(i) which creates, or which he believes on reasonable grounds will create, a farm business tenancy (within the meaning of the Agricultural Tenancies Act 1995), or

(ii) which relates to an existing tenancy which is, or which he believes on reasonable grounds to be, such a tenancy;

(b) any public officer drawing or preparing instruments or applications in the course of his duty;

© any person employed merely to engross any instrument, application or proceeding;

and paragraph (b) of that subsection does not apply to a duly certificated solicitor in Scotland.

(2A) Subsection (1) also does not apply to any act done by a person at the direction and under the supervision of another person if –

(a) that other person was at the time his employer, a partner of his employer or a fellow employee; and

(b) the act could have been done by that other person for or in expectation of any fee, gain or reward without committing an offence under this section.

(3) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), "instrument" includes a contract for the sale or other disposition of land (except a contract to grant such a lease as is referred to in section 54(2) of the Law of Property Act 1925 (short leases)), but does not include –

(a) a will or other testamentary instrument;

(b) an agreement not intended to be executed as a deed other than a contract that is included by virtue of the preceding provisions of this subsection;

© a letter or power of attorney; or

(d) a transfer of stock containing no trust or limitation thereof.

(3A) In subsection (2) –

"accredited person" means any person who is –

(a) a Full Member of the Central Association of Agricultural Valuers,

(b) an Associate or Fellow of the Incorporated Society of Valuers and Auctioneers, or

© an Associate or Fellow of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors;

"registered trade mark agent" has the same meaning as in the Trade Marks Act 1994; and

"registered patent agent" has the same meaning as in section 275(1) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.

(4) A local weights and measures authority may institute proceedings for an offence under this section.

[rory32]

Lucid you beat me to it!!

[Destinyofsouls]

(a) act as a solicitor, or as such issue any writ or process, or commence, prosecute or defend any action, suit or other proceeding, in his own name or in the name of any other person, in any court of civil or criminal jurisdiction

That doesn't sound right. Am I a bit stoopid?

If, in commencing a county court action in your own name, does this mean you are acting as a solicitor, and therefore , cannot do it?

[podgydad]

(a) act as a solicitor, or as such issue any writ or process, or commence, prosecute or defend any action, suit or other proceeding, in his own name or in the name of any other person, in any court of civil or criminal jurisdiction

That doesn't sound right. Am I a bit stoopid?

If, in commencing a county court action in your own name, does this mean you are acting as a solicitor, and therefore , cannot do it?

 

You can prepare it on behalf of another person, as long as it is not for profit or gain. Of course the solution is just to pass all the paperwork to a solicitor and get them to sign it.

[lucid]

I think it is referring to making money out of other people's claims.

 

LOL Rory - I just noticed.

 

Lucid

[podgydad]

Somebody shake that Judge's hand.

 

You can revel in it all you like Mindzai, however the end result will be less people claiming. Not much to celebrate really is it?

[Mindzai]

You can revel in it all you like Mindzai, however the end result will be less people claiming. Not much to celebrate really is it?

 

No the end result will be less people's money finding it's way to unqualified cowboys instead of actual legal professionals. Anyone who doesn't want to claim themselves can easily employ a solicitor rather than some chancer who doesn't know what he's doing (as so aptly demonstrated by yourself in the first post of this thread ).

[rory32]

Too quote my earlier post

 

"Couldn't agree with Mindzai more."

[empowered]

Too quote my earlier post

 

"Couldn't agree with Mindzai more."

 

Hear Hear! Bl***dy ambulance chasers!

[podgydad]

No the end result will be less people's money finding it's way to unqualified cowboys instead of actual legal professionals. Anyone who doesn't want to claim themselves can easily employ a solicitor rather than some chancer who doesn't know what he's doing (as so aptly demonstrated by yourself in the first post of this thread ).

 

No, solicitors aren't really interested, people will simply not claim. I also take offense at being called a chancer and a cowboy. Please refrain from personal insults, I believe the forum rules state quite clearly that this is not allowed. I rely on my legal counsel to advise me, this issue was never flagged to me. Now that it has, I'm awaiting advice on a solution.

[podgydad]

You know what I knew I'd get this reaction. Not sure why I even bothered posting.

[Robertxc]

Let's just keep this thread nice and friendly folks. Don't start slagging people off, or else!

 

Podgydad didn't need to post this here, and we're grateful that he did.

[Pen]

I thought Regulated Claims Management Company's where highley qualified people who would have the knowledge and expertise to work for clients, it would seem that I was wrong.

pen

[Robertxc]

Not necessarily. The judge may have been talking about this particular company, not claims companies in general.

[paulson1985]

Am I misreading all this?

 

Surley the key words in this regulation are "To Act as a solicitor", if you are not claiming to be a qualified solicitor, or signing paperwork as a solicitor then surley no offence is being commited.

[TideTurner]

Has anybody else had any dealings with Judge Cooke?