Mr. TB One -vs- Natwest ***WON***

[MisterTBone]

Now, that I've won against Lloyds, Natwest is next on my list!

 

I wrote to them two weeks ago, and I received a letter stating that they were looking into the matter.

 

As the 14 days had elapsed, I started a claim against them.

 

Claim no: 7QZ72541

Date: May 15 2007

Amount, including interest and filing fees: £2,374.64

Let's see if we can do it again!

 

Mr. TB One

[fendyweather]

All the best Mr. T bone, your all the wiser and more confident for having done it once already. Fendy xxx

[MisterTBone]

Thanks for your words of support.

 

Consider the news with Lloyds yesterday, I think I got off lucky there.

 

This was published yesterday, the day I filed against NatWest... DOH!

 

 

 

Lloyds TSB has become the first bank to win a court case after being sued by a customer for imposing supposedly unfair overdraft penalty charges.

 

District Judge Cooke, at Birmingham County Court, dismissed a claim for £2,545 from Kevin Berwick.

Mr Berwick argued Lloyds TSB's charges for having an unauthorised overdraft were illegal contractual penalties.

But Judge Cooke decided the bank's charges were in fact legitimate fees for servicing an overdrawn account.

As such, the judge said they were legal.

"Having held that the charges complained of are not charges for breach of contract but part of the price of the services provided by the bank... he has not satisfied me that he has any ground in law for recovering from the bank the amount of any charges which he has paid to it," he said.

Lloyds TSB said it was pleased with the ruling.

"It appears to acknowledge our position in respect of current account service charges," said a spokeswoman.

"The court has agreed with us that these are charges for a service and not default or penalty fees as has been argued by others," she added.

 

Blow to claimants?

As this judgement has come from a district judge, it is not binding on any other court, in the way that a High Court judgement might be.

However, as the first judgement of any kind in this sort of case, it could be a blow to the hundreds of thousands of people who are still trying to claim that they have been overcharged by their banks for running unauthorised overdrafts.

So far, many claimants have been successful because their banks have settled their cases before the issue came before a judge, precisely in order to avoid an adverse legal decision.

Now, the first decision in which a judge has given an opinion on the law has gone in a bank's favour.

Marc Gander, of the Consumer Action Group, a leading bank charges campaign, said he was very disappointed.

"We feel the judge has not considered the fact that disguising penalties as a fee for a service is a very common device for circumventing established law.

"The judge appears not to have looked behind the words on the contractual document," he said.

 

Possible appeal

Although Mr Berwick turned up at the original hearing in Birmingham to argue his case and was questioned by the judge, Lloyds TSB chose not to attend and relied simply on a written defence which it had submitted in advance.

Neither did the bank have any lawyers present in court when the judgement was handed down.

Mr Berwick said he was annoyed by the outcome of his claim.

"I was expecting to win as I made a good job of arguing my case," he said.

He is now considering an appeal after the judge gave him leave to do so.

 

 

[MisterTBone]

I received my notice of issue this week.

 

NatWest have until June 4th 2007 to reply.

 

Let's see what they do next!

 

Mister TB One

[steven4064]

Mister TB

 

Don't worry too much about the Lloyds case. Lloyds only didn't lose because the judge was not provided with a copy of the banks's terms and conditions with the court bundle (and of course Lloyds did not supply them) and therefore it could not be proved that a breach of contract had occurred. If the bank's terms and conditions had been available in court, Mr Berwick would not have lost, and hence the leave to appeal.

 

For more details (and a much more lucid explanation) see http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/90660-lloyds-victory-view-judgement.html

 

Steven

 

 

[MisterTBone]

Natwest had until June 4th 2007 to acknowledge the claim.

 

And, not surprisingly, they filed on the VERY LAST DAY...

 

Typical.

 

I'll be sending a letter to them stating that they shouldn't waste the courts time, and cc the judge who was in the press for chastising Natwest for doing so in the past.

 

Wish me luck!

 

MR. TB One

[steven4064]

Good luck

 

(I'm not sure it will do any good, but if it makes you feel better......)

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

[MisterTBone]

Natwest have filed a DEFENSE!

 

Should I be worried?

 

Mr. TB One

[steven4064]

NatWest have filed a DEFENSE!

 

Should I be worried?

 

Mr. TB One

No. They (almost) always do. And it's usually a load of rubbish. Let us know what they say, but I expect they will be 'embarrassed' at your pathetic claim and won't know what you mean and all sorts of other stuff which you should TOTALLY IGNORE.

 

When you get it, send them a copy of your scehdule with a brief covering letter (claim number, account details, for your information, yours sincerely) and don't do anything else until you hear from the court.

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

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[notwatson]

Greetings Mr TB One

 

I recognise your name from the Lloyds TSB forum.

 

I read your thread there with avid interest once you got to the Bailiff stage - I won against Lloyds TSB by default and issued a warrant of execution - they paid on the exact same day (about 3 hours too late !!) The Fees section at MCOL kindly refunded my Warrant fee (£55) - now there's a company who knows how to treat "customers"

 

Anyhow, I just thought I should touch base and show moral support as a fellow "I've beaten Lloyds - now on to NatWest" person.

 

Very best of luck !

 

Onwards,

 

Jon

[MisterTBone]

I WON! (Again!)

 

Here's their letter:

 

19-Jun-2007

 

Dear Mr. TB One,

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence. I am sorry that you have concerns regarding the charges that have been applied to your account.

 

We explain all of our terms & conditions including our fees and charges at account opening and they form the basis of your agreement with us. Full details are available at any time on our website and in our branches, and updates are sent out regularly to our customers. For your convenience, I am enclosing our current terms and conditions (including fees and charges) that apply to your account.

 

NatWest has for a number of years provided many every day banking services to customers free of charge when accounts are in credit or within a previously agreed overdraft limit. These services include access to our branch network, cheques, Direct Debits, Standing Orders, UK debit card transactions and UK ATM withdrawals. It is also important to us that our customers have every opportunity to arrange suitable borrowing facilities with us should they require extra funds whether through our branches, online or via our UK based call centres.

 

Whilst many of our services are provided without a corresponding charge, we do make charges when customers, by their actions, request an increase to or the creation of an overdraft in excess of their previously agreed limit. By reviewing such requests we provide an additional service to customers, in many instances allowing items to be paid either by creating or increasing an overdraft. These charges can be avoided entirely by arranging suitable borrowing facilities in advance.

 

For these reasons, we do not agree with the basis of your complaint. We believe that the charges we levy are for providing services and that they are not penalties or charges for default. Furthermore we believe that these charges are fair, reasonable and transparent.

 

However, having reviewed your case and as a gesture of goodwill and without admission of liability or error, in this instance we are prepared to offer the amount of £1,768.00 paid direct to your account.

 

To accept this offer in full and final settlement of your complaint please let me know by completing the attached form and returning it to us in the reply paid envelope provided. If you would like to discuss this offer please contact the number quoted above.

 

Any charges that properly accrue in the future will be applied to your account in line with our published tariff and in accordance with your agreement with the bank. Should you be unwilling to accept any such charges, then we may need to consider if we are prepared to continue to provide you with your existing banking facilities. Instead we may offer you a simple account that does not offer borrowing facilities or other services that can result in charges.

 

I trust that this will resolve your complaint, however for the sake of completeness 1 am enclosing a leaflet explaining the options available to you should you wish to take matters further.

 

Financial Services Authority guidelines state that we can regard your complaint as closed if we do not hear from you within eight weeks of this letter. If you do need to take your complaint forward,please let me know within this time.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours sincerely,

Customer Relations

 

I took the offer, as I am really busy to have to deal with the interest due, etc., and it basically covered what they charged me and my court fees.

 

So: If you are hesitating... GO DO IT!

 

Mr. TB One

[steven4064]

Mr TB One

 

CONGRATULATIONS! (AGAIN)

 

Steven

 

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[hedgey06]

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

Another one bites the dust! Well done, and best wishes.

Hedgey x

[MisterTBone]

Thank you for your words of support!

 

Mr. TB One (I pity the fool do don't get their charges back!)

[fizzibelle]

Congratulations! We have just been successful too!

 

After 6 months Nat West finally agreed to settle in full with us yesterday (although the cheque has not arrived yet)! We had gone through all the steps and rejected the initial offer made to us, finally getting the court allocation letter from Oxford C C. We then sent a "nudge" letter to Cobbetts and followed up with a phone call. The original solicitor was "away" and so I dealt with a very professional AND pleasant Australian woman. Her attitude was much better than her colleagues and she agreed to discuss it directly with NW. The following day she called US back and said N W had agreed to settle the full amount and to expect a cheque in the next couple of days!

 

Assuming that it does arrive we are very happy with the resolution!

 

Best of luck to everyone else and thanks also for all the great information we have gleened from these forums!

 

Alliance & Leicester should have received our court bundle yesterday - court date Aug 14th.....

 

HANG IN THERE!

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[steven4064]

Hi fizzibelle, a (belated) welcome to the Nat West forum and

 

CONGRATULATIONS!

 

on your win

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site