I'm very worried now- Birmingham County court- AQ draft order ignored!!

[will_cosworth]

Ok guys, I was successful with my charges reclaim :grin: , I got my cash just before I had to submit my bundle, from D&G Soliciters..... But, My AQ draft order was agreed by the judge and HSBC were told to comply withing the 14 days specified, which they did not want to do so offered me my full amount.

 

Now, I have been helping my girlfriend do the same thing, with HSBC also, but the AQ draft order for directions has been ignored by the Judge, and the case has been allocated to the small claims track. The instructions I have got are as follows :o

 

1. The hearing of the claim will take place at 14:00 on the 19th June 2007 at Birmingham county court Civil Justice centre, The priory Courts, 33 Bull street, Birmingham B4 6DS before District judge O'Regan.

 

2. This case is one of a number listed on the same date. Both parties must be ready for trail on that date. Depending on the number of cases proceeding on that date, the judge will give directions as to the order in which they will be heard, which may involve grouping cases raising similar issues,and/or adjourning some cases to a later date.

 

3. If the claim is settled, the claimant must promptly give notice in writing to the court stating the claim is discontinued.

 

4. Any party may rely as evidence on a statement of case ( if verified by a statement of truth). Evidence of witnesses will be given in writing only, by way of sworn affidavit or witness statement verified by statement of truth.

 

5. Any witness evidence of documents to be relied on by the claimant must be filed at court and served on the defendant not later than 21 days before the hearing. Any witness evidence or documents to be relied on by the defendant must be flied at court and served on the claimant not later than 7 days before the hearing.

 

6. It will not be necessary for any party to file or exhibit a copy of the OFT report ' Calculating fair default charges in credit card contracts' though it may be reffered to in any written evidence.

 

7. Each party must provide its documents and written evidence ( including a copy of any statement of case relied on) in a single bound paginated bundle clearly marked on the front with the case number and names of the parties.

 

8. No cross examination of witnesses will be permitted, except with the permission of the court.

 

9. No expert evidence is permitted ( this does not prevent a suitable witness on behalf of a bank or card provider giving evidence of fact as to the manner in which charges are determined by it) .

 

10. The claimant must, if he has not already done so, include in his bundle of documents a full list of the charges disputed, specifying the date and amount of each and the reason given for it.

 

11. If any party relies on a written submissions or a skeleton arguement, it must be filed at court and served on the other party at least 2 days before the hearing.

 

I am now very worried, as the case of lloyds today is not good news , and I really don't want to screw this up for my girlfriend ..... From the instructions above it looks like they have already decided that the charges are fair, wa sit not a Birmingham court that ruled in Lloyds favour???? I take it I need to get cracking on doing her court bundle now then?? Is the one in the Library ok or does it need updating? HELP!!!!!! :o

[Celicaman]

Hi, i believe most courts are dispensing with the AQ forms now.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/78873-new-after-28-days.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/71343-when-you-have-filed.html

 

From What i understand, it is that some of the judges are so sick of the banks waisting their time & not turning up, that they are dispensing with the AQ's, setting a date & hoping that gives the parties time to sort out the differences, namely the banks paying us our money.

THis can be helped along by sending DG a nudge letter saying that as of (date) you understand that the courts have dispenesed with the AQ form, and as you know they are so busy dealing with claims, that you will accept £XXXX as full settlement and you will be one les they have to worry about.

Read up on latties posts above and im sure it will be clearer, no need to start the court bundles just yet.

My own claim , AQ was dispensed with in april, i have no court date yet & just sent DG a nudge letter. an offer will come before court dates.

 

 

CM

[Castlebest]

From the look of your Judges orders he is trying to force DG solicitors into making an offer before the court date, however those were written before todays Lloyds judgement was published.

 

The big question is how will DG view todays news, they are still on very thin ice, the judgement today allowed for an apeal, this will be in an apeal court where president (case law for other judges to follow) will be set if Lloyds TSB dont settle and stop the apeal even though they won.

 

I think business as usual is the way to go, it would be a very brave solicitor that entered that lions den.

 

pete

[lateralus]

as for the court bundle - look at post one of either of my threads listed in

celicaman's post and in post one there is a list of the four items which make up the court paperwork - and links for help with a couple of them - it's towards the bottom of post 1. just do it as advised - get it ready

but as celicaman also says and pete backs up - i think it's a nudge from the court to get moving with dg - so, to that end - look at both those threads for big nudge letters to dg - refer to the court date and the info to be provided... and looking at dates - i'd get one off straight away - with a breakdown and then another more heavily worded one in a week - as you've only got til about the 30th or so to get it in - and that is their deadline too - won't have time for too much nudging - so get one out today if poss.

[african_igbo]

Hi CAG will there be information regarding the verdict as we all are very worried other judges will follow even though it's note statue.

Has any legal eagle got indea what the likely appeal will go I was under the impression that the charges levied where illegal due to the excess costs they added to the bank charge fee. Not the servicing part I accept that. Can someone shed some light.

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

From the look of your Judges orders he is trying to force DG solicitors into making an offer before the court date, however those were written before todays Lloyds judgement was published.

 

The big question is how will DG view todays news, they are still on very thin ice, the judgement today allowed for an apeal, this will be in an apeal court where president (case law for other judges to follow) will be set if Lloyds TSB dont settle and stop the apeal even though they won.

 

I think business as usual is the way to go, it would be a very brave solicitor that entered that lions den.

 

pete

 

Couldn't agree more pete.

 

Any bank relying on the Lloyds judgement will in my view & having read the judgement in full, be taking a very big risk

[Celicaman]

Been trying to find out what exactly happened with the Lloyds case, anybody shed light or got a link.

 

Whatever it is, its got a lot of peeps worried, probably done by the banks on purpose to try to undermine peoples confidence, they probably not turn up for the appeal

 

CM

[Audreygreeneyes]

I have just printed of the 14 pages of the judgement, CM dont ask me which thread I found it on last night, I cant even find how to access my own thread! ( all help appreciated) ....I could be misreading it but the impression that came across was that all he did was fill out the N1 and that was it, no other evidence was submitted or taken to court.

 

His partners part of the claim was praised , now I am wondering is it A the judge has had enough and this is his way of forcing a precident........ by offering an appeal............B it was because the case was not properly presented?. feel sorry for his co-claiment he coudl have had his moeny by now.....

 

Can someone please tell mehow I find my own thread:( so I can update my progress.........

 

am going to carry on. as all the good advice says this was one judge and his decission.....auburn

[pinkduchess]

auburn - check your PM box

[Celicaman]

Click on your name & then click item ' see all threads started by aubern'

[Audreygreeneyes]

thanks pink and CM. erm if i knew where the pm was i would............lol

[pinkduchess]

she found it!

[Celicaman]

thank gawd for thay lol, i was getting exasperated lol

[Audreygreeneyes]

:confused: boo hoo......feel more like it shoudl be evaporated.......... but thanks guys auburn

[lateralus]

did you want these:

the guy's thread: Kevboy_telford Vs LLoyds

the story of the judge's decision: here

the judgment:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_05_07_bank_charge.pdf

a bbc comment:BBC NEWS | Business | Was the bank victory an accident

bankfodder's response:Lloyds victory in Birmingham - in perspective(79 Viewing) [/url] ( 1 2)

BankFodder

 

and if you want more after all that - try the lloyds thread - there's lots more talk there.

[HSBCrusher]

take a look at this thread, then put the heads back onto the chickens! lol!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/90660-lloyds-victory-view-judgement.html

please could you take a look at this...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/90721-i-need-your-help.html

[will_cosworth]

Hi as regards to the court bundle, does this have to be in 21 days BEFORE the hearing??!!!

[lateralus]

yes, so a full copy to dg and a full copy to the court by wed. the 30th may. so, about time to start on it if you've heard nothing from dg.

i'd send one further letter to dg tomorrow - saying something about giving them one final chance to make an offer to you without having to submit all their defence details to the court.

 

and, unfortunately - you'll have to start the copying.

 

a) your schedule of charges.

b) your statements showing the charges. Alternatively, the list of charges which the bank provided under your S.A.R (subject Access Request) (only send the statements with charges on them.)

c) A Statement of Evidence: (post 55 in the new strategy): New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

d) All the statutes and decided cases on which your claim relies. ie, UTCCR's, UCTA's, SOGA, case law, etc. For this, I'd just submit the whole of the Basic Court Bundle.

 

 

that's it - just follow the links on 3 and 4

one and 2 are easy. it's nearly all just copying (in triplicate).

[will_cosworth]

OUCH!! Thats a lot of paper - so EVERYTHING in triplicate, and I take it the T+C's need to be included now as well?

[lateralus]

yes, i think the basic court bundle has been redone to reflect it - don't leave them to the end - they are trying to come up with a good selection of them - pm crusher to see what he has if you've none - try to get some from around the time you opened your acct.

 

there's some more info somewhere - might be in the court bundle about how it all needs to be laid out - like a cover page listing everything - i'll see if i can find what i mean and put it here for you.

 

but honestly - a strongly worded letter to dg tomorrow with that 21 days - blah, blah in bold upper case and a repeat of what goes in the nudge letter. you might even tell them if you've not heard from them by Tuesday 29 May - you will be adding all the printing, time and other costs into a claim for wasted costs (like they care) just shows you know what you are talking about (even when you don't). bully them into an offer. - but sent recorded delivery tomorrow gets there t hurs and mon is bank holiday - bottom line - start copying! a little later - after reading your post 1 again (and again) i see they don't actually have the same date to respond - theirs is 7 days befor the court date if i'm reading it properly - just make that allowance if you write to them - no good looking like you can't read (me, me, me!!!)

 

also, check out this thread: GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

 

just adding this exchange i had with garyh over the third item of the four:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lateralus

just for me to help peeps with witness statements - which defence is it that hsbc uses, please?

thanks

 

 

service charge. This one is fine for HSBC - http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....tml#post732096

 

and the court bundle does lay it out for you pretty well in post 1.

[Catlover64]

1. The hearing of the claim will take place at 14:00 on the 19th June 2007 at Birmingham county court Civil Justice centre, The priory Courts, 33 Bull street, Birmingham B4 6DS before District judge O'Regan.

 

Took this from Will Cosworth's thread. Is this the same judge that ruled for Lloyds last week?

 

Also with Kevin - did he do the paperwork himself or did he get a 3rd party claims handler to do it for him? Does anyone know?? Only I think I saw an article about him in the Mail on Sunday...

[lateralus]

no, it was judge cooke: Lloyds "Victory" - A View of the Judgement(8 Viewing) [/url] ( 1 2 3 4) and this is the guy's thread - i think he did it all himself:

Kevboy_telford Vs LLoyds (1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

Kevboy_telford

[will_cosworth]

I jut don't want to screw this up as my poor mrs is worried sick about it....

[lateralus]

tell her to try and stop worrying - but i know the type (me, me, me)

no one has gone to court -

this is actually a good thing - as theirs will be due soon and they will probably offer before theirs is due - some judges ask for the defendent#s stuff to be in first - that is great - don't know why yours asked for it the other way around - but he will soon see that you are on the ball when he sees the court bundle all made up.

i found a list to put at the front of it - just don't know how to link it - (i want to find where it was originally) so i'll get that up here for you -

chris (brundle) did his last weekend - so i'm sure there's help all around while you are doing it - but i do think it's time to make a start on it.

 

 

here's a good one - two things - first don't let it freak you out because it looks so complicated - just go through it and see what's there - and two, it's for abbey - so make any adjustments if you take anything from it:: Examples of Witness Statements / Disclosure by List / Draft Directions / Case Summary(1 Viewing)

 

post 3 was the list i was looking for. i know it looks really long - but the majority of that first bit is a list of what you've done so far and their responses (so you are making copies of everything from the first letter right through - don't use anything marked without prejudice)

 

start with the got a court date link i gave you before, then proceed to the 4 items (it's the court bundle that is so long an cumbersome) and just use what you need -

 

another place to see it listed - is in the questions and answers at the bottom of the list of forums - right at the bottom - and there is one near the top called court bundles - post 2-3 is karnevil showing a list of things to include.

everything you need is on this site - just need to pick and choose.

[will_cosworth]

well I am attacking this little lot tommorow, wish me luck!!!!