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    • One other point to note, the more I read, the more I study, the more proficient I feel I am becoming in this area. Make no mistake DBCL if you are reading this, when I win in court, if I have the grounds to make any claims against you, such as breach of GDPR, I shall be doing so.
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    • the Town and Country [advertisments ] Regulations 2007 are not easy to understand. Most Council planing officials don't so it's good that you found one who knows. Although he may not have been right if the rogues have not been "controlling" in the car park for that long. The time only starts when the ANPR signs go up, not how long the area has been used as a car park.   Sadly I have checked Highview out and they have been there since at least 2014 . I have looked at the BPA Code of Practice version 8 which covers 2023 and that states Re Consideration and Grace Periods 13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. It then goes on to explain a bit more further down 13.5 You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is. 13.6 Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________So you have  now only overstayed 5 minutes maximum since BPA quote a minimum of 10 minutes. And it may be that the Riverside does have a longer period perhaps because of the size of the car park? So it becomes even more incumbent on you to remember where the extra 5 minutes could be.  Were you travelling as a family with children or a disabled person where getting them in and out of the car would take longer. Was there difficulty finding a space, or having to queue to get out of the car park . Or anything else that could account for another 5 minutes  without having to claim the difference between the ANPR times and the actual times.
    • Regarding a driver, that HAS paid for parking but input an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number.   This is an easy mistake to make, especially if a driver has access to more than one vehicle. First of all, upon receiving an NTK/PCN it is important to check that the Notice fully complies with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 before deciding how to respond of course. The general advice is NOT to appeal to the Private Parking Company as, for example, you may identify yourself as driver and in certain circumstances that could harm your defence at a later stage. However, after following a recent thread on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that, in the case of inputting an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number, which is covered by “de minimis” it may actually HARM your defence at a later stage if you have not appealed to the PPC at the first appeal stage and explained that you DID pay for parking and CAN provide proof of parking, it was just that an incorrect VRN was input in error. Now, we all know that the BPA Code of Practice are guidelines from one bunch of charlatans for another bunch of charlatans to follow, but my thoughts are that there could be problems in court if a judge decides that a motorist has not followed these guidelines and has not made an appeal at the first appeal stage, therefore attempting to resolve the situation before it reaches court. From BPA Code of Practice: Section 17:  Keying Errors B) Major Keying Errors Examples of a major keying error could include: • Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration • Motorist entered something completely unrelated to their registration • Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one character being entered incorrectly) • Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM, for example the first three digits In these instances we would expect that such errors are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage, especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park (eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant). It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances, the operator will have incurred charges including but not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to recover some of these costs by making a modest charge to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day period from when the keying error was identified before reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal. Now, we know that the "modest charge" is unenforceable in law, however, it would be up to the individual if they wanted to pay and make the problem go away or in fact if they wanted to contest the issue in court. If the motorist DOES appeal to the PPC explaining the error and the PPC rejects the appeal and the appeal fails, the motorist can use that in his favour at court.   Defence: "I entered the wrong VRN by mistake Judge, I explained this and I also submitted proof of payment for the relevant parking period in my appeal but the PPC wouldn't accept that"   If the motorist DOES NOT appeal to the PPC in the first instance the judge may well use that as a reason to dismiss the case in the claimant's favour because they may decide that they had the opportunity to resolve the matter at a much earlier stage in the proceedings. It is my humble opinion that a motorist, having paid and having proof of payment but entering the wrong VRN, should make an appeal at the first appeal stage in order to prevent problems at a later stage. In this instance, I think there is nothing to be gained by concealing the identity of the driver, especially if at a later stage, perhaps in court, it is said: “I (the driver) entered the wrong VRN.” Whether you agree or not, it is up to the individual to decide …. but worth thinking about. Any feedback, especially if you can prove to the contrary, gratefully received.
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Robinson Way have me in a panic - help please!


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Hello All!

 

Robinson Way phoned me Thursday at 8:15am out of the blue saying I owed them £252.01 and wanted it paid within 7 days or else blah blah! I've never heard of them before. However, in April 2004 Express Debt Collecting Service sent me a letter saying same, I phoned them and said I didn't owe them money, man said he'd dig into it and get back - never did!

 

On Friday at 6:20pm, the phone rang, I answered and an automated message told me I had received a call from Robinson Way and left a number to contact them. I didn't!

 

Today, I got a letter from Express Debt Collecting Service (them again??!!) saying I owed Robinson Way the same amount of money. I also got another phone call from Robinson Way, but now letting all my calls go onto answering machine so they don't register as a 'contact made'. I feel this is unfair when it's an automated message, therefore no discussion!

 

Problem is, what do I do now? I'm frightened to answer my phone, and when the door goes my heart misses a beat!

 

I did ask the female who called early on Thursday morning to send me paperwork about all this but she said no! Also said she had spent enough time discussing this with me, 7 mins she said!!

 

Help please, what can I do? I have the money to pay them off and get them off my back - but why should I?

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Right first off take a nice deep breath and calm down.

 

You are perfectly correct in NOT answering the phone to them, after all it's your phone and YOU choose who you talk to.

 

They WONT send anyone round to collect this debt a they have to have your permission to do so.

 

So we can help better could we olease have somemore information about this "debt" they are chasing.

Is it for a loan, bank account, credit card, or anything else.

This is important information that is need to help you proceed correctly.

 

Fill us in, we don't bite, often ;)

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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First of all don't pay them anything. They need to prove that you owe them the money, you also want to stop them phoning you.

I would send them a CCA request which will cost you £1. They legally have to provide this to prove that the debt is yours. Example shown below:

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxx

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

With reference to the above account, I request that you send me a true copy of this credit agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request.

 

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

 

1. True copy of original credit agreement

2. Statement of account

3. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from (the original creditor) and Robinson Way.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment.

I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I would also send them a letter regarding harassment http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html

That should hopefully shut them up for a while.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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GUS = Great Universal

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Hi Rory32!

 

I was reading a lot of posts earlier today and I came accross this letter and see that most people just fire that off to them.

 

I'll do that straight away.

 

I'll have a read at the harrassment link as well, many thanks!

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No problem.....there are also quite a few good threads as well on dealing with harassment if it comes to that.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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rory32 is spot on with the CCA request.

Make sure you send it recorded delivery then you know when the clock starts.

With a CCA there is a very important time line to follow. They have 12 WORKING days once they have received it to supply the required documents after this time they cannot enforce the agreement until such time as they comply.

After a furthe CALENDAR MONTH they have commited a criminal offence which can earn them a £2,500 fine and/or 3 months in prison.

 

Just remember you have found CAG and we'll help in any way we can.

 

BUT at the end of the day if they do prove that this debt is valid you WILL have to pay them.

This is not a way to avoid paying legit debts.

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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Thanks again!

 

Well the debt is certainly not mine! I told them that in April 2004 and never heard another thing about it until now. I assumed because I heard nothing else that they had realised there was some mistake.

 

Anyway, I'll send the letter off to them and see what happens next.

 

It's awful that these people can make you feel so uncomfortable in your own home. I live alone which I suppose makes it even worse.

 

This is an amazing site, not that I understand most of it! I came across it because I googled Robinson Way to find out who and what they were!

 

Thanks again guys, I'll let you know how things progress.

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