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Alphageek

AlphaGeeK Vs Amex ***WON***

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Thanks for the advice Pandora.


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Hi Shakespear, I have not sent it yet. Please post your comments.

 

Alphageek - sorry just read the above. I don't think CPR 18 and CPR 31.14 apply to the small claims track. However You can use them before the case has been allocated to track by the judge.

 

The District Judge can order the other party to clarify their case by providing further information. The case can hardly be fair if you are taken by surprise.

 

CPR 27 deals with Small Claims track. CPR 27.2(3) states that "The court of its own initiative may order a party to provide further information if it considers it appropriate to do so."

 

see link below :-

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part27.htm#id3585832

Edited by shakespeare62

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I have not updated this thread for a while as I wanted to keep Amex/Brachers guessing as to my next move just in case they were watching this thread.

 

So, here is what has happened since:

 

I instructed a firm of Solicitors to attempt to settle out of Court with Brachers. The offer was that both parties should discontinue their claims, Amex clean up my credit file and we'd call it even.

 

After well over 21 days of them (Amex) doing precisely nothing, I withdrew the offer and took my solicitor off the case.

 

I did this to prevent them trying to go for a strike out hearing prior to the appointed Court date. I hoped I had timed it well to make sure the date on which I withdrew the offer was too close to the hearing date for them to attempt a strike out.

 

Whether this ploy was needed or not, I just don't know but it seemed the correct thing to do at the time and they would have been on tricky ground asking a Judge to grant a strike out while an offer to settle was on the table.

 

I also bowled a googly at them by asking if they would confirm whether or not Amex securitize debts or not because it they did then either Amex would have no right of action or they would need to be joined in the action by their SPV. This got them in quite a flap and I received a letter from them asking me to explain myself (more or less) - the only reply they got was the withdrawal of offer to settle letter I discussed above.

 

The deadline for filing Court Bundle came and went without as much as an empty envelope from Amex/Brachers. I'd like to think they were still flapping over my "securitized?" question. I was, however, by this time getting the distinct impression that Brachers are just a bunch of numpties akin to all the other DCAs in that they really didn't have the first idea what was supposed to happen next.

 

** Don't take this to mean they will be the same with you **

 

On Wednesday (2 days before Court), Brachers called me and asked if I would agree to an adjournment as they had found some terms and conditions that should have been filed with the Court claim and they wondered if I'd like time to contemplate them. I'll leave it to your imagination what my reply was.

 

They told me they would still seek an adjournment and tell the Judge I had refused. I invited to them to do so and drew up a document that contained my grounds for opposing an adjournment to help me remember all the times I had asked for the evidence they were now trying to introduce and all the deadlines they had missed.

 

Today at 11:30 was the time the Court had allocated for the hearing. I arrived at Court in good time and reported to the security chap. He asked if I was represented, to which I answered that I was not. He told me the Bank's representative was here already and he would show me through to the waiting area. He also said to me "It's one of the few things the government hasn't made compulsory yet!", I asked "What's that then?", he said "Talking to the other side!" I'm sure he was trying to tell me something.

 

Anyway, in to the waiting area we went and he said to the solicitor Amex/Brachers had sent that I was Mr Alphageek. He looked up and said "Oh, I'll be with you in a minute." in the tone of voice as though he was a headmaster waiting to tell a naughty schoolboy off for running in the corridor.

 

I realised he was the person two in front of me reporting to the security chap as I had arrived. I overheard him telling the security chap that he'll only be here 10 minutes today and was hoping that he could be bumped up the running order because of it. "That isn't going to happen." I think was the reply.

 

So, I didn't like the cut of his jib and decided to not hand him my grounds for opposing an adjournment ahead of being called before the Judge. I sat down and decided to read my defence and counterclaim one last time.

I could see he was reading his brief from Amex/Brachers. After about 10 minutes he approached me and asked if I was aware of what they were going to be asking the Judge for this morning. I told him I did. He then asked if I had received in the post (this morning) a letter from Brachers with the new evidence in. I told him I had not (it's still not here even after I returned home - more rubbish from Brachers?).

 

He said he had a copy for me. I politely refused and told him I was not sure he should be serving documents on me this close to the hearing and I would prefer to wait and ask the Judge if it was to be allowed.

 

He had a face like a slapped bottom at this point and he told me he would tell the Judge I had refused to accept it. I was planning on telling the Judge anyway, so I thought this would save me the trouble. As he turned to go back to where he was sat he eyed by bundle that was still open as I was still reading through it, oh how he longed for a peek inside. He sat down and started reading an very thick text book.

 

About 11:40 the usher was trying to organise who should go before the Judge next. He asked Amex/Brachers if he still thought he'd be done in 10 mins (he said "yes") and asked me if I thought I'd be done in 10 minutes. To which I said no.

 

We were called forward at about 11:45 and went in to a pleasant office, the Judge was already seated at his desk and bid me good morning and asked me to take a seat. I'd say he was in his early 60s and looked like the kind of person you'd expect to be a Judge. He was very calm and assured and, I thought, made me feel welcome.

 

I could see the Judge had the claim, defence, counterclaim and my Court bundle already in front of him on the desk. I opened my brief case and positioned my own copies of those documents on the desk. Amex/Brachers had about 10 sheets of A4 with him.

 

The Judge opened the proceedings with a simple "Yes, Mr Amex/Brachers"

 

Amex/Brachers started talking about asking for an Adjournment. I got the impression the Judge already knew he was going to ask this, but I didn't consider this to be anything sinister. Perhaps he'd asked the Clerk to put a copy of the documents he did have with him in front of the Judge before we went in.

 

Anyway, he was telling the Judge that he was instructed that Brachers wished to serve these T&Cs they had "found" and, true to his word, he told the Judge I had refused to accept them.

 

The Judge didn't bat an eyelid at this save for a almost imperceptible glance my way. I took this to mean that I had done the right thing to refuse to accept the documents.

 

The Judge asked for a copy of what he was trying to introduce and as Amex/Brachers slid a copy to the Judge, he also slid one my way (he was determined wasn't he!) - the Judge had a quick glance at it and put it back on the table.

 

Amex/Brachers then continued, unprompted, that he was seeking the adjournment so they could file their bundle and this new evidence so they would not be disadvantaged at trial. I am sure I laughed out loud at this remark.

 

He said he "was instructed" that this was a valid Credit Agreement and that the T&Cs "would have been on the back." - I resisted laughing out loud again and just shook my head at him.

 

The Judge asked me if I had seen this document before. I told him I had seen the first page (an application form) and directed him to it in my bundle. He had a quick look and asked me to confirm I had only seen the front page before. I confirmed.

 

He then turned to me and said "So, Mr Alphageek?" - I took this to mean it was my turn to speak. I picked up my 'Grounds for Opposing an adjournment ' document, said I had prepared my objection and would the Judge like a copy. He said yes and I gave him a sheet and also gave one to Amex/Brachers.

 

I started with my first bullet point; that being that it was almost two years ago that I had first asked for the document they were now seeking to introduce. I pointed out the numerous attempts I had made to try and get a copy of it from Amex, explained it was Newman DCA who had given me a copy of that particular application form, told him that I thought Brachers should have filed this evidence when they issued the claim, had given Brachers an opportunity to supply it when I made my CPR request and reminded him they could have filed it with their Court bundle if they hadn't missed that deadline as well.

 

I then picked up the 3 pages. I told the Judge that the application form was unreadable (it was, mostly just a load of squiggles) he glanced and seemed to agree. Then (one page in my left hand and two pages in my right hand) asked how it was possible for 2 pages of T&Cs to be on the back of a one page application form.

 

Then I shut up!

 

The judge looked at Amex/Brachers and awaited an answer. I can't quite remember what he said, but it was something like "your Honour, I am simply instructed.... blah blah blah" and that the Claimant should not be disadvantaged due to the failings of its solicitors.

 

I really could not help myself and laughed again at this stupid remark.

 

The Judge then decided it was time to make a ruling on the adjournment.

 

He summed up the chronology to date, noted I had filed all of my paperwork on time and noted Amex/Brachers had not filed a Bundle. He said his order (to file 14 days before hearing) was perfectly reasonable (to which I nodded my head in the affirmative) and he did not expect it to be too onerous for an experienced litigator to comply with.

 

"For that reason, the application to adjourn is refused and therefore, the hearing must proceed" were his words as best I can remember.

 

A deep sigh from Amex/Brachers as the Judge turned once again to the new evidence, "Is this all you've got?" asked the Judge.

 

Amex/Brachers then played their joker... some statements "proving I had had the money" and not repaid it. 'Dear oh, dear, is this the best you can do?' I thought.

 

He then babbled on some more about not letting Amex be disadvantaged due to the actions or inactions of their solicitors and finished off with the statements being proof and I should not be allowed to get away with having had the money and not repaying.

 

I reminded the Judge that I had made several requests for information and copy agreements to both Amex and its solicitors so to suggest this situation was entirely of Brachers making was fanciful.

 

I think that was it.

 

The Judge turned to me. It was my go again.

 

The first thing I said was that I am not now, nor have I ever denied that I had operated the account. It is my contention that the charges levied against the account and the amount they say is outstanding more or less cancelled each other out, therefore I deny I am indebted to the Claimant.

 

I suggested the agreement was not compliant with the 1974 Act and Regulations. Then moved on to the lack of a Default Notice.

 

Amex/Brachers piped up and told the Judge he had a copy of a Default Notice from Dec 2004 and gave it to the Judge. He had a quick scan of it and asked if I had ever seen it. I told him I hadn't.

 

He examined the DN more closely and asked "How long does this last for, forever I presume?" (I thought the Judge was losing it at this point), Amex/Brachers said "14 days your Honour", Judge said, looking intently at the document "Ah, yes 14 days to remedy the breach."

 

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but in 2004 didn't they only give you 7 days to remedy a breach on a DN?

 

I directed the Judge to the tab in my bundle that contained my credit report and showed the Judge that the Default had in fact been registered some 8 months later and the month before the default was issued the account status showed as "OK."

 

I think the tricky old Judge had spotted that the DN was made up and threw it on the desk and said something like this to Amex/Brachers "Well that won't help you, you can only claim the arrears of some £300 odd pounds and it seems the breach was remedied."

 

Then the Judge said "I have heard this case..." and went on to give Judgement. I didn't realise what he was doing at the time as we had, at this point, not discussed my Counterclaim.

 

He set out the facts as he saw them, commenting on the length of time the case had been ongoing, mentioned Amex/Brachers failures to meet every deadline and contrasted this behaviour with mine wherein I had "acted within the timeframes" (something like that), stated Amex/Brachers has filed next to no evidence, thumbed through my defence and stated it ran to 26 pages and was very detailed in contrast.

 

He then looked at Amex/Brachers and stated that the claim was dismissed.

 

He then told me that he could not allow my Counterclaim as he could not accept that I had had and spent the money and then was trying to claim it back and that my Counterclaim was dismissed.

 

Mr Amex/Brachers coughed and spluttered that "I am, erm, not, erm instructed as to appeal. " - He composed himself under the glare of the Judge and continued asking for permission to appeal on the grounds of they being prejudiced by not being allowed to enter any evidence.

 

I felt like answering for the Judge but thought I'd better let him do so. He said something to the effect that "you're not going to appeal here, you've acted unreasonably at every turn. Permission to appeal denied!" in an annoyed tone of voice.

 

Mr Amex/Brachers stated packing his stuff away. I realised it was now all over.

 

Now, although my counterclaim was not allowed, their claim and my counterclaim more or less balanced each other out so I guess it was kind of a nil-nil draw, to use a football analogy. I am not too disappointed with the result. I had, after all, offered to settle on these terms only 3 weeks ago hadn't I?

 

Erm, No! Hang on just a second. What about my credit file?

 

I had to speak up and ask, "Excuse me your Honour, there is still the matter of my credit file and the default that Amex have entered on it and I have requested removal."

 

The Judge said, "There is nothing I can do about that here." Drat I thought, but the Judge carried on saying something like "but as the claim has been dismissed then they have no right placing the default as they have no grounds. It is now open to you to seek removal and, if they refuse, you have a possible claim for defamation."

 

A definite helping hand and pointer to the next time this switched on Judge and I meet. I'd love to get him again if Amex try playing hard-ball with me on the Default Removal.

 

I didn't get chance to discuss the issue of securitization as it was all over. Sorry to those who were waiting for news on this issue.

  • Haha 1

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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I would like to thank everyone one who has contributed to this thread and helped me with this case.


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Fanbloodytastic!!!

 

You can claim wasted costs though right?

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Fanbloodytastic!!!

 

You can claim wasted costs though right?

 

That's just reminded me, when the Judge was summing up, he said that pretty much all he had from Amex/Brachers were their costs for today.

 

He obviously didn't award them any :)

 

Perhaps someone can advise if I have a claim for costs?


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Another thing I have just remembered.

 

When the Judge asked Amex/Brachers why they wanted an adjournment, they said apart from introducing the new evidence, giving me time to consider it and giving them more time to prepare a bundle they said it would give then the opportunity to settle out of Court.

 

I'm sure I LOL'd then as well :D

 

Hadn't I been trying to do that for the past 4 weeks I asked...


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Thank you DD :D


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Hi AG

 

Very well done. Great result. And thanks for the detailed report of the proceedings.

 

Regards

SC

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Hi AG

 

Very well done. Great result. And thanks for the detailed report of the proceedings.

 

Regards

SC

 

Thanks for that and you're welcome re the report.

 

I understand a lot of CAGers get apprehensive about going to court and I just wanted to portray that it is nothing like what you see when courts are on the television.

 

It is very informal and my particular Judge was welcoming and switched on to matters pertaining to the CCA 1974.

 

Also, all the clap-trap excuses that OCs and DCAs use that we see time after time on here are all they had to back up their claim. All the advice I was given (and I see given to others) by everyone who helped was pretty much on the money.

 

A creditor without an enforceable agreement would be stupid to go before the Judge I had today.


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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23_28_125.gif Excellent news Alphageek!

 

You have worked so hard on this, you deserve every champagne bubble of your success.

 

And isn't it wonderful when you get a DJ like this? It also shows all would be LIPs on CAG that they are not all ignorant & unsympathetic despite the horror stories that are frequently posted.

 

 

We were called forward at about 11:45 and went in to a pleasant office, the Judge was already seated at his desk and bid me good morning and asked me to take a seat. I'd say he was in his early 60s and looked like the kind of person you'd expect to be a Judge. He was very calm and assured and, I thought, made me feel welcome.

 

Your story also shows how prepared you have to be before entering the courtroom & also how meticulous you have to be in adhering to deadlines & filing paperwork.

 

Congratulaions again AG.


Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Your story also shows how prepared you have to be before entering the courtroom & also how meticulous you have to be in adhering to deadlines & filing paperwork.

 

Congratulaions again AG.

 

Yes, that's the point I was trying to get across in the account of the hearing. I was so engrossed in it I forgot to point this out in PIL :grin:

 

Thanks for the congrats.


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Great result AlphaGeeK, I am delighted for you!

 

You should be out celebrating!!!!!!!

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Thanks Monty :)

 

I can't go out, I am working on my claim against Yorkshire Bank CC.

 

There is no rest for the wicked, evil people who should all be locked away in debtors prisons is there? :D


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Thanks Monty :)

 

I can't go out, I am working on my claim against Yorkshire Bank CC.

 

There is no rest for the wicked, evil people who should all be locked away in debtors prisons is there? :D

 

LOL

 

Do you know who the Brachers solicitor was? I had a Mr Marks contact me before I moved to Scotland. The seem to use a lot of legal associates......

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He wasn't from Brachers, he was from a local firm by the sound of him. Can't remember his name... but I do hope he can remember mine! lol


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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What an absolutely superb result and well reported. Congratulations on your success.

 

aa


I have no legal training and the advice I offer is a matter of support. Before you commit to any Legal action you are advised to contact a qualified legal practitioner.

------------------------------------------------

Bank charge successes:

Halifax - Full settlement incl interest.

HSBC - Settlement, goodwill no admission of liability about 75% of claim.

RBS - Settlement, goodwill no admission of liability about 70% of claim.

2 ongoing claims for bank charges with HSBC with more to come. (Supreme Court ruling could have upset these claims) They did :mad:

PPI Successes

PPI 4 settlements on 9 loans. FOS involvement on 7 added on the 8 % Statutory interest another 30% to both.

2 claims settled in full with LV without FOS involvement.

2 claims settled in full with HSBC without FOS involvement

 

PPI Claims ongoing with:

Cap one Now with the FOS

Barclays. Paid up today 24/04/10 cheque received for over £4,500 and in the bank.

LTSB still have to decide on this as their SAR production was abysmal. Papers data mixed up documents missing etc

 

1 Complaint not upheld by FOS they said it was ICO issue. Complaint upheld by ICO. See this..

Post 290 from

***RBS PPI Claim Long fight but, WON***

 

Please do not PM me for advice as it may be sometime before I can respond.

 

Keep at them. Do not give way and do not accept all they tell you, they will delay and stall for as long as they can to prevent repaying you your mis-sold PPI.

 

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Brilliant news AlphaGeek - I am really, really pleased for you!

 

You've done a fantastic job.

 

Take care

Pandora-nini

xx

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Congratulations Alpha.

 

I chortled and cheered as I read your excellent report on the proceedings.

I echo what you and others have said about preparation. Having had half a dozen goes at it (with varying degrees of success) I’m in no doubt that careful preparation frequently puts you two whiskies ahead of a sloppy opposition.

 

It’s also good to reassure new LIPs that the courtroom should hold no fears for them.

 

Anyway, even if you’re too busy to get one down your neck, I’m not, so here’s to you!:grin:

 

Els


BANK CHARGES CAMPAIGN CONTINUES - PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION

 

Aktiv Kapital £300.00 SETTLED IN FULL

Capital One £741.47 SETTLED IN FULL

Citi Cards £1221.00 SETTLED IN FULL

LTSB(personal) £3854.28 SETTLED IN FULL

LTSB(business) £7487.97 SETTLED IN FULL

 

What poor education I have received has been gained in the University of Life

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What an absolutely superb result and well reported. Congratulations on your success.

 

Thank you...

 

Brilliant news AlphaGeek - I am really, really pleased for you!

 

You've done a fantastic job.

 

Thank you too...

 

Congratulations Alpha.

 

I chortled ...

 

Anyway, even if you’re too busy to get one down your neck, I’m not, so here’s to you!:grin:

 

Els

 

My turn to chortle now :D

 

Thank you as well.


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Well done! :D:D:D:D

 

Thanks for the explanation of what happens too

 

the securitization question will live on for other cases:)


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Well done! :D:D:D:D

 

Thanks for the explanation of what happens too

 

the securitization question will live on for other cases:)

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, sadly the securitization question did not make it in to the deliberations of the Judge.

 

Brachers silence on the matter and research elsewhere lead me to believe with 99% certainty that all amex cards over a certain age are securitized.

 

It's a shame I didn't get to explore this aspect of their shady business.


The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Well Done Alphageek great result !!!!!!!!!!

 

Gaz

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