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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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AlphaGeeK Vs Amex ***WON***


Alphageek
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Hi everyone, long time lurker on here and have been reading everything my (now square shaped) eyes could take in over the past couple of weeks.

 

I think I know what to do to get the ball rolling, but am going to post here for 2 reasons.

 

First, so you people who are further along and more experienced than I can (if you're feeling helpful) keep me on the right track should I start to veer off in the wrong direction.

 

Secondly (and more importantly), to try and keep this thread as informative as possible so any other people who have suffered at the hands of the illegal actions of the parasitical financial institutions will feel that they are empowered to claim back their rights (and money, interest and possible damages).

 

Some of the stories you read on here are nothing short of scandalous. The lengths the lending institutions, banks, debt collection agencies and bailiffs go to is unbelievable.

 

Fortunately, it seems we have good laws in this country and it seems fairly straightforward to get them off your backs and to refund any unlawful charges they have taken.

 

My 1st tip for any lurkers reading this is to get started as soon as you find yourself having issues with any lenders or want to claim back your money. Giving the lenders any more time to harass you only benefits them.

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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So, on to my situation.

 

I got behind on my Amex account payments and they defaulted me.

 

Note to lurkers (and self): I could have quite easily prevented this default being registered. See my tip no. 1 above.

 

Debt sold to or is now being handled by Debt Collection Agents (acronym DCA) Newman and Company of Leeds.

 

I can see the default on my credit report via CreditExpert (http://www.creditexpert.co.uk). It shows as the following;

 

The account is defaulted. You have failed to keep to your credit agreement and have not responded satisfactorily to requests to put your account in order. As a result the credit agreement has ended.

The most annoying phone calls from Newman's and interminable letters followed.

 

I agreed a payment plan and have pretty much adhered to it.

 

The balance when I first hit problems was around 10K. My latest Amex statement shows I owe around 1.5k.

 

So I now wish to claim back the unlawful charges.

 

I am going to issue a S.AR. (Subject Access Request) letter and a CCA (Consumer Credit Act) letter to Amex.

 

The SAR will compel them to produce all data they hold about me and the CCA will be asking them to produce a true copy of the executed credit agreement.

 

The data I will receive under the SAR will enable me to work out how much illegally obtained money of mine they have and if they cannot produce the true copy of the executed credit agreement, the agreement is invalid and no debts are enforceable.

 

Will post more later.

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Sorry, had to go to pick my Girl-friend's dog up from the Vets.

 

Anyway, back to business.

 

The format of these letters, or templates can be found on this site.

 

The SAR is here.

 

and the CCA is here - Letter N

 

(Note: IF you're new here, you will need to sign up and be logged in to see the text of those templates)

 

 

My latest Amex statement is ~1.5k, yet the latest letter from Newmans says I owe ~3.5k. I guess they're looking for a healthy profit.

 

My first question then is; Should I SAR and CCA the DCA as well as Amex so I have the full picture.

 

The reason I ask about the sense in SAR and CCAing the DCA is that I don't think there has ever been a Deed of Assignment from Amex to Newmans and they are just "acting on behalf of..."

 

Their letters always say something like "...instructions from our client to proceed further..."

 

I am of the mind to SAR and CCA both parties, wait until their 12 days are up (for the CCA) and if/when they fail to produce change my payment instalments to £5.00 (as a gesture of good will (GOGW)) while I proceed with claiming back the illegal charges.

 

All suggestions welcomed.

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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It can't hurt to CCA the DCA - I think we proabaly have a duty to hastle these people - it helps them understand what its like to be on the other side of the fence. I don't think sendin them a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) will produce anything unless you think they may be applying unlawful charges too. I suspect that Newman have not bought the debt so there will be no deed of assignment - from Newman's website:

 

"With 20 years experience in the Debt Recovery sector, Newman and Company Ltd is an expanding business that provides debt collection services to clients throughout the UK. Set-Up in 1986, the business is located in Leeds.

 

Newman and Company specialises in the collection of overdue accounts for a variety of clients, both large and small, across a wide range of industries including large blue chip companies, utilities and major banks both in the UK and overseas.

 

The service operates on a no collection, no fee basis and can be tailored to meet any unique client requirements"

 

Basically, they do the banks' dirty work and get paid when they collect. No collection, no fee probabbly sharpens the mind and makes them rather unpleasant. I note they also have "investors in people" certification. That's their people not 'real' people of course.

 

Steven

 

 

 

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Hi Steven,

 

Thanks for popping by.

 

I was thinking of sending a SAR to the DCA so I have lots of ammunition about their calls & letters when I eventually warn them off for possible harrasment.

 

Would they not log all calls and mail in a database and thus have to disclose?

 

Anyway, I think £10.00 worth of annoyance will = :D for me.

 

I guess you're right though. I guess I can't tell then to stop contact until in dispute, so anything previous will be irrelevant?

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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They should keep records of phone calls - specifically mention that oh your SAR or they will just send statements, assuming that is what you want.

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

 

 

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CCA and SAR sent to Amex and Newman this morning via recorded delivery. They will be deemed to have received it on 17/05/2007.

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Royal Mail site shows the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and CCA delivered to Amex today (under separate cover).

 

Interestingly, the same things sent to Newmans in Leeds has not been delivered yet. I guess they'll show up tomorrow.

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Received a reply from Amex today. It consisted of the following;

  • A compliments slip with "Free of charge. Regards, Illegible Sig"
  • The £1 PO I sent as fee for the CCA request
  • 2 copies of 13 pages headed "GOLD CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974"
  • A photocopy of what looks like 2 application forms

Here is the photocopy. Blurring applied by me and some text added to show what I have removed.

 

Image Scan Here

 

Clearly, this is not a true copy of the executed agreement.

 

Question: Should I write thanking them for the enclosed but reminding them that I asked for a true copy of the executed agreement and the application form they sent me cannot be assumed to be it.

 

Should remind them of the original time scale (from when they first received my original request) and should I send them the PO back?

 

I thought I had seen a nice template letter for this somewhere, but can't find it

 

Thanks.

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Oh, I should add that I have not read the 2 13 page documents yet, but they seem to be the same thing on 1st glance.

 

Neither of them have any dates on nor any handwritten notes.

 

They both have what I take to be the word processing document reference in the header or footer (CAM 4520 - 301 -d64-wp-18.01.06) and probably supposed to be the terms at the time of opening the account and the present terms.

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Also, the small print on the app form, above, you can read as well as I can. i.e., it's pretty illegible!

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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I think you should just write and remind them of their obligations (including timescales) under the CCA and that what they have sent is not adequate. By all means send them the £1 back - after all that is your obligation under the CCA

 

Steven

 

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A package arrived this morning via recorded delivery. It is the response to my SAR.

 

The package consisted of the following;

 

  • Cover letter dated 17.5.07, stating "Dear Alpahageek, Please find enclosed copies of statements detailing all charges as requested. Should you have any further queries regarding the statements please do not hessitate to contact us in writing. Yours sincerely," - pp signed for a Data Protection Co-ordinator.
  • My £10 cheque
  • Copies of my statements. The earliest being dated in Jan 2001.The latest being this month's

There is no notation regarding any manual intervention, nor is there a statement that there is no such notation due to the lack of any such manual intervention. My SAR letter specifically asked for this.

 

Are Amex obliged to supply statements from the time of account opening in 1997 and not just for the last 6 years? If they are, and they have levied unlawful penalty charges am I able to reclaim them?

 

I am also surprised there are no details of the transferring of the account to the DCA, I was expecting copy letters, default notices (if any), Deed of Assignment (if any).

 

Also, there surely must be more information held on this account (discounting the DCA saga) that they have failed to supply, or have I really been just a number to them afterall?

 

As per the CCA request, should I write back (enclosing the original cheque) and request the missing information?

 

I suppose I should get on with completing a spredsheet. Which is the best to use for Amex?

 

Thanks.

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Alphageek

 

There is no notation regarding any manual intervention, nor is there a statement that there is no such notation due to the lack of any such manual intervention. My S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter specifically asked for this.

 

Then you should write and remind them - use the Data Protection Act non-complaince letter http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

 

Are Amex obliged to supply statements from the time of account opening in 1997 and not just for the last 6 years? If they are, and they have levied unlawful penalty charges am I able to reclaim them?

 

THey should supply everything they have about you and that includes all statements back to whenever. Put it in your letter. Yes you can recalim them - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80486-claiming-beyond-6-yrs.html?highlight=6+years

 

I am also surprised there are no details of the transferring of the account to the DCA, I was expecting copy letters, default notices (if any), Deed of Assignment (if any).

 

These should be supplied - put it in your letter

 

Also, there surely must be more information held on this account (discounting the DCA saga) that they have failed to supply, or have I really been just a number to them afterall?

 

You would think so and, if there is, it should be supplied - put that in the letter too

 

As per the CCA request, should I write back (enclosing the original cheque) and request the missing information?

 

I think so - see above

 

I suppose I should get on with completing a spredsheet. Which is the best to use for Amex?

 

I personally think Mindzai's is the easiest to use - see bottom of first post on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb.html

 

Steven

 

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In response to the agreement form being sent for my CCA request.

 

My Address

Place

Place

P/Code

 

Date

 

Person

Data Protection Co-ordinator

American Express Services Europe Limited

Data protection Office

Department 2007

Amex House

Edward Street

Brighton

BN88 1AH

 

 

Dear Person,

 

Re: − Account Number 0000 000000 00000

 

Thank you for your letter postmarked 17.05.07 and the enclosure of a copy of my original application form together with what I presume to be a copy of the terms and conditions applicable to the account at opening and those applicable today.

 

My original letter (copy enclosed) requested that you send me a true copy of the executed credit agreement. Your above mentioned letter did not have this enclosed. I ask you to correct this omission and provide me with said true copy.

 

The application form does not represent a true copy of an executed agreement having various prescribed terms missing and is, in parts, illegible.

 

I ask you to be mindful of the wording of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79) and remind you that my original letter is deemed to have been received by yourselves on the 17.05.07 and that you should comply with my properly formatted request within 12 working days.

 

I re-enclose £1.00, in the form of a postal order, which represents the fee payable under the act for this request.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

Alphageek.

 

 

 

Enc: Copy letter dated Monday, 15 May 2007

Postal Oder serial number 000000 00 0000 00000000

Via Royal Mail Recorded 1st Class – DL 0000 0000 0GB

Any comments before I send?

 

Thanks.

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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I personally think Mindzai's is the easiest to use - see bottom of first post on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb.html

 

Hi, thanks for the pointers.

 

Mindzai's spreadsheet states that it should not be used for credit cards on the Notes tab. Do you know why?

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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Hi, thanks for the pointers.

 

Mindzai's spreadsheet states that it should not be used for credit cards on the Notes tab. Do you know why?

 

No I don't know why. If you put the APR on page 1 with the other data and your charges on page 2 (ignore the interest stuff on page 2) then the interest calculation on page 4 is right. Paghe 3 is s69 interest which you should also ignore (for now).

 

Steven

 

 

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Letter re incomplete disclosure under S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

 

Address

Address

Address

Address

Postcode

 

Date

Person

Data Protection Co-ordinator

American Express Services Europe Limited

Data protection Office

Department 2007

Amex House

Edward Street

Brighton

BN88 1AH

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

Dear Person,

Re: − Account Number 0000 000000 00000

I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated Monday, 15 May 2007 (copy enclosed). The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing.

  1. You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges dated between account opening in DATE and DATE
  2. The screen dump in lieu of MONTHS’s statement is not annotated and is, therefore, meaningless to me.
  3. You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.
  4. You have provided no notes, or documents relating to a default entered by your company against my credit reference agency file on or around DATE. Particularly statutory default notices.
  5. You have provided no notes, or documents relating the transfer of the account to DCA on or around DATE. Particularly a deed of assignment.

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

You have a further thirty six days to comply, or I will seek an order in the County Court under the Data Protection Act.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Alphageek.

 

 

 

Enc: Copy letter dated Monday, 15 May 2007

Personal cheque number 000000

Via Royal Mail Recorded 1st Class – DL 0000 0000 0GB

Any comments?

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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I didn't even receive a copy of my application - they only sent me a set of their latest terms and conditions.............kept my £1.00 postal order though!......................So I'll be sending a similar letter to you on Monday ......only question is is it better to delay informing them that they haven't supplied what we requested and that subsequently they are in breach and that we are not as dim as they think we are so that they breach the 30 day limit as well and commit a criminal breach? They've already paid out in full on my penalty charges and interest - I'm CCA'ing them to try and stop them giving my personal data to the CRA's.

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

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...only question is is it better to delay informing them that they haven't supplied what we requested and that subsequently they are in breach and that we are not as dim as they think we are so that they breach the 30 day limit as well and commit a criminal breach?

 

I don't think you should do that. Our strength is that we behave reasonably and do things properly. Don't descend to their level. In any case, you want this all sorted as quickly as possible, don't you.

 

Steven

 

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