Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters

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Hi All,

 

Just thought I'd post up the template responses that you get from Lloyds Bank if you follow the CAG/BAG process all the way. Any major deviation from these will be worth noting - but for the most part, you will likely get identical letters to these, regardless of what you write yourself. Mods - one of you may wish to make this sticky?

 

For the most part, these are the template responses Lloyds bank send to people starting this process.

 

However, be alert that you may recieve different responses, and you should approach this matter with caution as it could result in you ending up in court and losing if you don't spot it!

 

1st response, usually in a day or two of the Preliminary Approach for Repayment:

 

 

Dear Mr/Mrs xxxxxx,

 

I am just writing to let you know that we've recieved your complaint - and to say how sorry I am to learn that you're unhappy with us.

 

You have my assurance that one of our assistant managers will investigate the concerns you have rasied with us - this may take a little time but I would expect our enquiries to be complete within the coming 2 weeks. We will then be able to respond in full to your complaint and at that stage, I hope, resolve matters between us.

 

In case you haven't recieved a copy of our leaflet called 'How to voice your concerns' I've enclosed one with my letter (They didn't, actually!). This tells you all you need to know about resolving your complaint with us.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

David Just

Assistant Manager

 

And a couple of days later:

 

Dear Mr/Mrs xxxxxx,

 

Re: Account Charges for Overdraft Excesses and Returned Items

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about your account.

 

I understand that

 

You feel that the charges you have incurred are unlawful.

You are unhappy with the amount of charges you have incurred as a result of being overdrawn and from returned items.

You have requested that all charges incurred should be refunded for the past 4 years totalling £xxxx.xx.

 

When you became a customer, we gave you details of any charge for the day to day running of your account. Details of our charges are also available from our branch staff, telephone helpline or our website.

 

For the vast majority of our customers banking with us can be completely free as charges are not made for services such as debit cards, cash machine withdrawals, balance requests, statements, cheque books and Internet banking. We also do not charge for processing Direct Debits and Standing Orders when they are paid through our customers' accounts.

 

One of the few services we apply charges for are when a customer does not have enough money in their account to meet payments they have requested us to make. If customers think they may exceed any limit they have, we urge them to contact us to discuss their requirements. Any requests for further lending are then assessed in line with our usual credit policy. Similarly, when we return an item, we are preventing a customer from exceeding their limit, and again as we explain clearly to our customers, this process incurs a charge.

 

Typically, we do not levy customers an excess overdraft fee the first time they go overdrawn without an agreement, as long as it hasn't happened in the past twelve months and we limit excess fees to a maximum of three occurances in any one month.

 

As a business we are entitled to set charges to cover additional work. These charges are not hidden and are notified in the guide to banking charges leaflet we produce. We advise our customers to ensure cleared funds are available in their accounts to meet payments due. You will also note that in the front of each cheque book we request that funds are available before cheques are issued.

 

You incurred charges because you did not ensure funds were available in your account to cover the payments set up by you. It is your responsibility to operate your account within any agreed limits and within the terms and conditions.

 

You accepted these terms when you opened your account and when you agreed your overdraft (I don't have one?). We did not agree to pay your account in excess of the amount agreeed without charges being made.

 

Accordingly, I am unable to agree with your request to refund these charges. We do expect your account to be run in line with the terms and conditions of its operation. This means that you must ensure that cleared funds are deposited into the account the working day before any payments are due. If you do not feel you will be able to run your account in accordance with the terms and conditions, we may have to consider withdrawing certain facilities, such as any debit cards, overdrafts and chequebooks. Alternatively, you may wish to consider alternative banking arrangements.

 

If you are unhappy with my decision and feel that you have something to add which might change the outcome, please get in touch. If we cannot agree on a solution at that point, I will help you refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service for independent arbitration.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

Chris Dunnett

Assistant Manager

 

And lastly, after your Letter Before Action:

 

Originally Posted by David Just

Dear Mr/Mrs xxxxxx,

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx xxxx 2006. I am sorry to hear that you have not been happy with my response to date.

 

Unfortunately there is little I am able to add to my letter dated (Date of previous letter) and I am only able to refer you back to the terms and conditions of your account, although I do respect you opinion about our charges.

 

This letter is the bank's final response, which means that if you remain dissatisfied you may refer your complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If you decide to pursue your complaint through the Financial Ombudsman Service you must do so within 6 months from the date of this letter. I have enclosed a leaflet, which outlines how to contact them.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

David Just

Assistant Manager

 

The names on the letters may vary somewhat, but for the most part you can expect these responses to come quite rapidly to your letters. Then again, with the number of people hitting the site since last night...!

 

Edit to add: Don't be put off or daunted by these letter. Remember, as far as the Banks are concerned you're playing a game of poker over the Small Claims Court. What they can't seem to get through their skull however, is that you're holding a royal flush.

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Bump - 67 views and not one response.

[bram stoker]

Sorry Reload. I'm always a little suspicious of template resonses. I believe everyone should treat their case as individual, no-matter how standard the response may seem. Everyone's circumstances are different, and care should be taken to take your own case seriously. This is not just a template letter-sending exercise, no matter what the banks think.

[reload]

Er, these are Lloyd's own template responses to your letters, Vamp

 

Just thinking it might be worthwhile for people to compare their own letters against. If they get anything different, then it might be a bit easier to spot that they need to tread more carefully...?

[bram stoker]

Er, these are Lloyd's own template responses to your letters, Vamp

 

Just thinking it might be worthwhile for people to compare their own letters against. If they get anything different, then it might be a bit easier to spot that they need to tread more carefully...?

A good point Reload. I personally make sure I edit the templates from this site to my own circumstances. I wouldn't like anyone visiting this forum thinking it's an easy ride to just copy the templates from here, receive template letters, send another template and hey presto you have your money back.

 

You and I both know, like most people here, all letters sent and recieved must be carefully considered. Even though you may receive a standard letter from your bank, doesn't mean the points made are to be lightly ignored. A small change in the standard response could be easily overlooked.

 

I can't speak for the other mods here though. It's just my own opinion.

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I understand what you mean Vamp - I do the same, editing the template letters from this site as necessary, and thinking carefully before sending. Even took several days and the Tonight with Trevor report before my old dear was fully convinced that banks can actually break the law

 

Still, given this thread has now had 120 views and only us two responding - would there be any problem with me occasionally bumping it, as it certainly seems to be popular?

[cozzie121]

much appreciated for posting the letter.

 

I received exactly the same initial letter and currently awaiting a response to my LBA.

 

I can only assume it will, again, be the standard response I receive.

[bram stoker]

Still, given this thread has now had 120 views and only us two responding - would there be any problem with me occasionally bumping it, as it certainly seems to be popular?

Of course I don't mind. We could even bump it between us with a discussion on letter writing and attitudes to take regarding your claim; i.e. making it personal, and understanding that 'your claim' is 'YOUR claim' etc, and how to correctly address this in your letters.

[shellshocked]

I have spoken to lloyds tsb on this and they seem to be holding their guard firmly.

 

That response is clever and I read it as that we agreed to these fees when we signed up and as such they are legal.

 

Are we sure that they are wrong on this or have they found a loophole?

 

thanks.

[bram stoker]

They are completely unlawful (not illegal).

 

You and I could agree tomorrow on a sale of illegal goods between us, draw up T's and C's, the lot. It doesn't make the contract lawful or enforceable.

[reload]

Hi shellshocked, and welcome to the BAG.

 

What Vamp says is exactly correct. Because the terms and conditions of the contract are unlawful (in that they include penalty charges), the contract itself in unenforceable. Therefore, they're in the wrong.

[Hayleye]

Thanks for the tip on the standard letters Reload. Im just getting started with this format but like many people, Ive been objecting to these charges for years with Lloyds TSB (I too am in the thousands) and they have rejected my "requests" every time and to be honest, made out I'm a nuisance for asking. I've never pushed it because I believed I was in the wrong!!!

 

 

If I had recieved one of the letters that you have outlined, Im pretty sure my nerve would have been shaken as It's very cleverly worded. Would kinda make you think your the exception to the rule.

 

 

Anyway, i'll hold my nerve and get the first letter out. I'm enjoying learning from you guys. Thanks a lot!!

[downsouth]

If I had recieved one of the letters that you have outlined, Im pretty sure my nerve would have been shaken as It's very cleverly worded. Would kinda make you think your the exception to the rule.

 

Seconded. Many thanks for putting the letters up Reload, for us to compare against when we get our replies:cool:

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You're welcome guys

 

In one way having them available for people to see is a good thing, perhaps providing a bit of extra support such as in Hayleye's example.

 

Please all - bear in mind though, that this is a serious matter, and as Vamp says - when you start the process you should be prepared from the off to actually go to the small claims court if necessary. These templates which Lloyds are sending to us are all very well - but each and every case is a serious matter, even though they don't seem to be treating us as such by sending and saying the same thing again and again

 

The serious bit done with - if any of you do get a different letter - even just one line different - please post it up here!

[Axleuk]

Heres another one to add to your collection:

 

 

Dear XXXX

 

I am writing with regard to your letter dated XXXX. I am sorry that you are disappointed that you have not received a personal reply for ourselves. Your complaint was forwarded to our Customer Concerns department who would deal with your complaint.

 

I have forwarded your letter dated xxxx to this department who are dealing with your complaint.

 

Your Sincerely

 

Kevin Collin

Team Leader

 

Hmmmm.... that response stinks in my opinion.

[unhappy_grand]

Has any one been sucsessfull claiming back from Llyods?

 

Can I claim back charges for accounts that have been closed over the past 5 years (All as a result for "unfair" charges placed on them)?

 

many many Thanks

[Axleuk]

In short yes you can, but make a new thread with your comments and you will get a better responcse and helps keep this place organised.

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Hi unhappy_grand - as already said, yep you can. And for that matter, yep people have

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*cough* bump *cough*

 

Anyone got anything to add?

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*watches the tumbleweed roll past while he waits for Lloyds to file their defense*

[topgeeza]

Hi All!

 

On the second refusal for refund from Llloyds TSB (in response to my LBA letter), they wrote an interesting sentence which reads as follows:

 

Unfortunately there is little I am able to add to our letter dated 23 May 2006 as I have outlined the Bank's position on the points that you have raised, although I do respect your opinion about our charges.

 

Has anyone else had the last part of that sentence on any of their letters?

 

Cheers

Neil.

 

ps - I've now completed the following steps:

1) Requested and received details of all charges applied to my account

2) requested customer notes held on me using DPA

3) sent LBA letter

 

Can anyone confirm whether the next stage is to fill out the online small claims court claim?

[Isiris]

 

Remember, as far as the Banks are concerned you're playing a game of poker over the Small Claims Court. What they can't seem to get through their skull however, is that you're holding a royal flush.

 

Id like to think that we have a straight flush against there 4 aces. That way they at least think they have a chance

[reload]

Hi topgeeza,

 

If you re-read the third letter (The response to the LBA) posted in this thread, they say the same thing

 

And yep, the next step is Moneyclaim. You are advised to wait 14 days from the point you sent your LBA, however, if only so Lloyds can't use the insufficient time to respond argument.

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An addendum to the response to the Preliminary Approach for Repayment:

 

I should mention too, that if I don't hear back from you at all by 11 August 2006 I will take it that matters are resolved between us and close my file.

 

Yours sincerely

 

David Just

Assistant Manager.

 

In other words, offering a get-out-clause if people want to drop the discussion.

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This is the defense Lloyds filed in response to Baronstoneybroke's claim. I feel fairly sure in saying it's the same or very similar to the responses Lloyds are filing to most people's claims.

 

DEFENCE

1. The Defendant Lloyds TSB Bank pic (the Bank) is a bank. It is admitted that the Claimant has been a customer of the Bank at all material times.

2. By opening an account with the Bank, the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking services. The Bank is entitled, as part of that arrangement, to charge for those services. At account opening a customer is provided with details of the Bank's charges, currently in a leaflet a guide to our banking charges. By using the account, the customer acknowledges that the

charges are incorporated into the contract. For personal customers, a number of

services are provided for free, notwithstanding that they are an expense to the Bank.

Such services presently include, but are not limited to, providing;

cheques bank statements the facility to make payments by direct debit and standing order debit cards ATMs (cash machines).

3. By maintaining the account in credit, or within any limit agreed with the Bank, the customer may avoid most if not all charges. If the customer fails to ensure that thereare sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments, whether by cheque, debit card, standing order or direct debit, the customer makes a request for a payment to be made from the Bank's own funds. If the Bank makes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract. On page 1 of the leaflet, the Bank explains that "there are normally no charges for everyday banking at Lloyds TSB when your account is in credit.

When you use an agreed overdraft, there is no monthly fee and we only charge interest on the amount you are overdrawn each day. Where you go overdrawn without an agreement or where you use special services, such as copy statements, we will make a charge. This guide explains how these charges work, and when they will apply.

If you want to use a service that we haven't listed, we'll tell you the cost of that service before you give us the go-ahead".

4. There is no breach of contract; the charge cannot therefore be a penalty, consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the Bank's loss.

5. The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed; statements show the charges, if any, the customer has incurred during the course of a month, and which will appear as debits on the following month's statement. Customers are

warned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their agreed limit without

arrangement with the Bank. If the customer fails to remedy the position, and

payments such as standing orders and direct debits are refused then again the

customer is warned by letter.

6. The charges are fair and reasonable, and it is denied that they are unlawful.

7. The customer is notified of the charges in plain intelligible language at the conclusion of the contract, and on each monthly statement. The charges are terms which relateto the price payable by the customer for a service provided by the Bank, and pursuantto Regulation 6 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, are not subject to the assessment of fairness.

8. In the premises:

8.1 the charges are for banking services, and are not damages nor a penalty;

8.2 the Bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges, which are fair and reasonable;

8.3 it is denied that the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or regulation.

9. The Claimant's claim is denied in its entirety. It is further denied that the Claimant is entitled to the sum claimed or to any sum from the Bank.