Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters

[shellshocked]

8. In the premises:

8.1 the charges are for banking services, and are not damages nor a penalty;

8.2 the Bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges, which are fair and reasonable;

 

makes me laugh only today when the bank rang me up responding to my complaint over my latest charge did what they say I found interesting.

 

Firstly this is the first time the bank has refused to refund a charge to me when I asked, seems they are changing their policy following giving large refunds and been tighter to people who play nice.

 

She said the reason the refund couldnt be issued is because the charge is "FULLY AUTOMATED" and outside of human control.

 

So looking at 8.1 and 8.2 of your defense they are saying its reasonable to charge £35 for a unpaid standing order that was automatically blocked and letter sent out.

 

For those interested I did record the call.

[reload]

Excellent!!! Shellshocked, can you upload it and/or contact one of the mods or admins with this? It'll no doubt come in useful. I'd love a copy too, something to bring to court if Lloyds do actually force me into the small claims court

[bram stoker]

Shellshocked... please send it to [email protected] for our records (masking all personal info, obviously). Many thanks.

[mario]

Lovely jubly,Ill have some of that for my case just in case.By the way are you making the bank response template letters a sticky?.

[bram stoker]

Unfortunately we are limited to the number of sticky threads we can make in each forum.

 

As the letters regularly change and the banks change their tactics we should not be assuming that these letters are going to be what we will receive.

 

Any letters you receive can be entered in your own individual threads and will relate to your own claim. It's always good to see other people's responses they receive, but in context with their own claim is even better.

 

Nice to see everyone trying to help out. It's a great forum with a lovely community spirit. Keep it up folks.

[shellshocked]

I will send asap.

[reload]

As Vampy says - these are the generic responses we've been getting to date. Useful to compare against to see if any of their proceedure changes, however it is certainly best to keep a track of your own responses in your own threads too - that way you have something that you know is 100% correct to refer back to.

[NickC]

Hi all,

 

Just had my first response: Almost word for word as above, although they did add on paragraph near the end:

You accepted these terms when you opened your account. Accordingly, I am unable to agree with your request to refund the charges.

 

In case you haven't received a copy of our leaflet called

'How to voice your concerns'

I 've enclosed one with my letter. This tells you all you need to know about resolving your complaint with us.

The leaflet is a horrible photocopy that doesn't help much.

 

They also gave a date in 2 months time when the file would be closed if I do not reply to them.

 

Guess it's time for my LBA!

 

Nick.

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A horrible photocopy? Blimey, they must be running low on stocks

[kazzaw]

A horrible photocopy? Blimey, they must be running low on stocks

 

I'm sure we could rustle up a few copies for them - I've got four I could donate!!! ;-)

[closey]

I've got two. Shall we send them back and charge them £10 a copy?

[dave&sueb]

Hi all,

I'm sure we have all spotted this......

The statement in the bank's defense statement:

 

4. There is no breach of contract; the charge cannot therefore be a penalty, consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the Bank's loss.

 

seems to be rather contradictory.......if there was no breach then what have they charged for??!! Defense my a***

 

Also, Lloyds repeatedly state that the bouncing of payments is a 'service'. In the context of the service industry in which they operate, the definition of 'service' is "work done by one person or group that benefits another"

To decline a debit and then charge us for the 'service' is a service to themselves and not to the customer.

 

Importantly, the fact that the level of charges are set to recover global losses, the t's and c's are a misrepresentation of fact and this could arguably come under the jurisdiction of the Fraud act since to extort money for the purpose of financial gain by misrepresenting is classed as fraud!!

 

Anyone got a legal background and can comment on this?

[StudentInDebt]

Letter from Lloyds solicitors received after Allocation Questionaire was returned, accompanied by a conditional settlement letter which I have not reproduced(amend the conditions as you see fit).

 

Dear Sir

 

We act for Lloyds TSB Bank plc (the Bank).

 

We have been passed a copy of the proceedings that you have issued against our client in respect of charges levied on your current account. The Bank will be defending these proceedings on the following grounds:

 

1. The fees that you are seeking to recoup are properly incorporated into your contract with the Bank. When opening your account you were provided with details of the Bank's charges and by using your account, you accept those charges; and

 

2. when you make a payment (whether by cheque, debit card or any other means) from your account when you have insufficient funds to cover it, you are effectively making a request to the Bank for an increased overdraft. It is for the Bank to decide whether or not to accept this request. If it meets your request, or indeed where the request is declined and the item is returned to your account, your must pay the necessary charges. The issue of penalties only arises as a matter of law where there has been a breach of contract. No breach of contract has occured between you and the Bank; the Bank is merely providing another service, for which there is a charge. The charges are not penalties and therefore need not be a pre-estimate of the Bank's loss.

 

You allege that the imposition of charges is unfair under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1777 but this leglislation is not relevent to this situation. However, the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 do apply in circumstances such as these, that is, where the terms of a contract have not been individually negotiated between the Bank and its customer. However, that alone does not make them unfair; the terms have to be those which cause a significant imbalance in the parties' rights tot the detriment of the Bank's customer and are therefor contrary to the requirement of good faith.

 

When looking at fairness, the court will consider the circumstances surrounding the making of the contract. However, it is clear from the Regulations that where the contract terms are in plain and intelligible language, the assessment of fairness is not to relate to the adequacy of the price/renumeration as against the goods/services supplied, in this case the cost of the charges against the service rendered.

 

We are satisfied that the Bank meets this requirement. As stated earlier in the letter, the Bank provides it's customer with the details of all charges in advance in its tariff leaflet at the time of an account being opened, so the requirement of plain English is satisfied. Furthermore, customers who incur the charges are notified in advance on their bank statements and are warned by letter.

 

If the Court were to look at the circumstances surrounding the negotiation of the contract we would be able to point out that a customer can conduct his account free of charge, provided that he ensures that there are always sufficient funds in his account to meet his commitments.

 

In those circumstances, we are confident that the Court would not consider these charges to be unfair

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Martineau Johnson

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Just a bump for newcomers/people who haven't seen these responses along the lines of a standard process.

[dave&sueb]

Can somebody explain what 'bump' means

[reload]

In the context of a bulletin board forum, it means 'bumping' a thread back into view on the first page

[cshirley]

Hi

 

I am just about to start the process of trying to claim back bank charges. I have read a letter that asks the bank to send details of charges made to the account during the last 6 years. I have had both of my bank accounts for 20 years, can i go back that far? And to get this money back, do i have to leave my bank?

 

Claire

[closey]

Hi Claire and welcome.

 

everything you need to know is within the FAQ section of the site. You need to start by reading that. You will also find there are all the template letters you will require.

 

Then start you own thread and record your process there so that you and others can follow your progress.

 

Once you've had a good through the site if you have any questions come back and we'll help.

[reload]

Giving this thread a long overdue bump to the first page - seems a lot of people are asking whether the same standard responses that Lloyds are STILL using are what they should expect

[thfctimmo]

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i have had all 3 of these letters now so what do i do is it the small claims court?

need help

[reload]

Hi thfctimmo,

 

As per the Step by Step Instructions, yep, your next course of action is the small claims court - or filing a claim online with http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk.

[thfctimmo]

am i being really thick as i cant make head nor tail of the moneyclaim site????

[goldiea]

Hi there,

 

the moneyclaim site is not too bad as they go and quite straightforward to one who is not up to speed on the information superhighway (me!). you need to register first and choose a cust ID and password. they will ask you to fill in a few detainls (email etc) then you can enter to start a claim. I have heard lots of good things about the Patricia Pearl book (i have a different one) but that will help you to get the right details in the right places... (imperative so you dont sue yourself or miss out crucial legal basis for your claim and have it thrown out).. and have a look in the library, BF and others have put some info re what needs to be on your particulars of claim and what to watch out for.. its really informative. Just make sure you read all this and know what the basis is for your claim, read, read, read... and then go for it... carefully.

 

Good Luck and happy reading. You can PM me if you like but all the info is on here.

 

xx

[Katel30uk]

I have now sent my prelim letter (no response other than acknowledgement letter saying they were investigating my complaint) and 14 days later my LBA (sent last Wednesday). Today I have received the following letter from them but I'm not sure if it's in response to the prelim or LBA. Is this the same as received by others?

 

"Thank you for getting in touch with us. I am sorry you are unhappy over your account charges.

 

Like any business, we do make a charge for some of our extra services. When a customer doesn't have enough in their account to cover a payment, this always means additional work. We must either make the payment for you via an overdraft or send the payment request back. Either way, it has to happen speedily. We feel it's only fair to charge for the extra work involved.

 

Of course it is only fair, too, that we're completely open about any charged-for services before you take them up. That's why we take care to provide every new customer with the latest guide to our charges. You can also get up-to-date details about fees and borrowing rates at all our branches, via our helpline and on our website.

 

Just as importantly, we do everything we can to help our customers avoid charges altogether.

 

I'm sure you'll know how easy it is to keep a running check on how much is in your account. You're free to get an up-to-date balance at any of our cash machines, over the phone, online and nowadays even by text to your mobile.

 

If you know a payment is going to take you over the limit, you're welcome to see if we can raise your limit - and we can usually give you an answer straightaway. You might know, too, that we don't usually charge fees if it's the first day in 12 months that you've gone overdrawn without agreeing it with us beforehand. And we never charge an overdraft excess fee more than three times in any one month, however many times you go over your limit.

 

You've mentioned the new guidelines from the Office of Fair Trading on credit card default charges. We don't agree with the OFT's thinking on this and we're still talking it through with them. But the important point is that the guidelines only concern 'default' charges. The fees we charge for going over an overdraft limit and for returned payments are not any kind of default penalty. They are fixed standard prices for the service we provide in these situations. So according to our legal experts, the OFT's guidelines on credit card default charges do not in any way apply.

 

I do hope you can see that we make our charging system as fair as possible - and why I cannot agree to cancel your charges.

 

This letter is the bank's final response, which means thatr if you remain dissatisfied you may refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If you decide to pursue your complaint throught the Financial Ombudsman Service you must do so within six months from the date of this letter. I have enclosed their leaflet that outlines how to contact them.

 

Thank you once again for taking the time to raiise your concern with us.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Ms Musarat Siddique

 

 

So is this pretty much the standard response to the prelim letter or is there anything I should be aware of? By the way my claim relates to a current account NOT a credit card as stated in their letter.

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Looks identical to the same letter/timing as the one I posted on the first page of this thread, word for word.