garygumps v Northern Bank (NI) ***SETTLED***

[caro]

If the monthly maintenance fee something that you agreed to and signed up for, ie a genuine service charge, then you can't really claim that, but if, for example, it only occurs when you have been over your overdraft limit, then that is a penalty and claimable.

 

You could ask them what the renewal fees were, but personally I'd be inclined to let the judge decide I think.

[garygumps]

Thanks for your input Caro, respected as always:)

 

What I am finding difficult to understand, is that I cant work out a pattern for these "maintenance fees" . The bank claim these are monthly or quarterly, but there has obviously been months where no fee was charged:confused:

 

The more I think about it the more inclined I feel to challenge them for an explanation, but then again why should I? But I dont want to seem unreasonable.

[caro]

Let the judge decide then - if the bank let it get that far.

[garygumps]

To hell with it, i've drafted up a letter asking for more information. I asked for....

 

1-- Evidence of which charges they have already refunded. If some have been refunded then I cant reasonably be expected to include them in any claim. Regarding this I also asked why they were refunded;) Surely the bank weren't being reasonable and felt sorry for me at the time (whenever that was, as I cant remember!!!)

 

2--An explanation of the monthly fee system (you know, the one were the bank charge a monthly fee, except for some months when they dont!!!!!:o Should be a good one LOL

 

3--An explanation for the "renewal fees"

 

I also reminded them that legal action had already started and so my claim now included interest @ 8% + court fee which would have to be included in any further offers. I also made it clear that the claim was still ongoing even though i was writing to them and I would take it all the way. I was going to include a wee line about how I knew that they had settled numerous other cases which I think included the disputed fees but after further though took it out as I didn't want to look too cocky!!!

 

Anyway, that should keep us occupied while the clock ticks on my court claim (Response date 31 July)

 

Gary

[bally35]

Maintenece fees will only apply when you are in overdraft (thus infrequency).

 

If the fees being refundec are only the penalty fees i.e referral items, unpaids and letters then I would accept unless you want to push for interest.

They are actually being "reasonable"if they are refunding all these charges.

How reasonable it was to take this money in first place is another matter:rolleyes:

[garygumps]

Bally35. Thanks.

 

So am I right in thinking that for any month that I was overdrawn (even within my limit) then I would also be charged a £9.50 fee?

 

Could this not also be construed as a penalty? Does it reflect the banks costs?

 

Every time I think about this, I keep changing my mind about it. One minute I'm sure its OK to include them, the next I'm not so sure:confused:

[caro]

If the fee only occurs when you are overdrawn then it is a penalty fee, and don't settle without interest and the court costs you've spent out. The refunded charges should be identifiable on your statements and should not have been claimed.

[garygumps]

The thing is they only supplied me with a basic list (not actual copy statements) from 2001 to April 2006 (when Danske bank took over and brought in their own computer systems). Im assuming the refunded charges were from way back, so thats why I'm asking for the proof. If they were refunded, and I've no reason to believe that the bank would lie about this, then fair dues I'll not include them.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

garygumps, all my maintenance fees always seemed to occur when i was overdrawn. In the space of 2months, i had maintenance fees, so realistically, these were also a penalty for the referral fees, KEEP GOING AHEAD, let them take you to court because if i had a million pounds to spare, they wouldn't even cross the threshold of the courthouse. Read the news regarding the latest on the Yorkshire and Alliance & leinster. To prove their charges will set a precedent and NO bank wants to do that.Keep rereading my thread of good fortune and you'll really believe that if you are strong enough and ready to go to court and that the bank believes this ( cos I was definitely going) you WILL WIN!!!!!

Do not be afraid.

NorthernWarrior.xx

[garygumps]

Just checked online small claim status.

 

Bank has lodged a "NOTICE OF DISPUTE" as of today. Ooooooooooohhhh!!!!

 

Still waiting for reply to my last letter for clarification on a few points (see post on 5 July above) and as the banks will be on holiday for the next few days over here, I dont expect to hear anything until well into next week.

 

 

Gary

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Don't be afraid, why they insist on doing this , I really don't know!! You will NOT BE GOING TO COURT:) but you must be prepared for going mentally so that you will become so fired up with all your prep work that you will want to go into the courthouse guns blazing, believe me I most certainly did!! I had completed all my court bundles and there was NO WAY i was going to lose out on my prep time as I have already stated. So, when is your court date? If you start downloading your prep now and maybe saving it on disk it will keep you focused and do remember to include CYNthesys and all the information regarding the National Australian Bank's court case in S.Ireland, you cannot lose!! Though it honestly, won't come to that, the Northern will not want to be the first bank over here to go to court and disclose the TRUE costs of a referral fee. £2.00 as opposed to the £30.00 plus?? I don't think so, Go to the stickys, ' Our good friend as seen on Whistleblower' and download the pdf file, it is all about... well ,if stuck pm me and if I can I will attach a few of my files. I know it sounds daunting but once you have started the case you will want to continue, but DO remember, your facts MUST be factual and if you do not understand anything contact a Mod, because some of the cases in Hull were not prepared properly by the claimants and this is why some have had theirs thrown out, so do make sure that you also understand what you are preparing. We are all here to help you and remember it was only 2 weeks ago, that the bank settled 2 days before court and I got more than what I had asked for and it will happen to you too. ( the extras were my figures for my court bundles).That is why I am mentioning court bundles, cos even though the bank doesn't recognise prep time and nor does the small claims court in principle, you can still threaten the bank with going to speak to the judge by asking him to take into consideration travel expenses and time and maybe stress and etc. get the picture? Nothing ventured nothing gained, they threw the first shot and started the battle, not us, so put on your warrior face and begin!!!

NorthernWarrior.xxx:)

[garygumps]

Thanks for the rallying cry Northern warrior, very Braveheartish!!!!!

 

****in scottish accent****

 

"They may take away our money, but they will never take away our freedom!!!!............and they'll bloody well give us our money back!!!!!"

 

(Apologies to Mel Gibson)

 

Ahem, anyway, I dont have a court date yet as the notic eof dispute was only logged today, so what with the holidays here at the moment, I think its going to be well into next week before i get any more paperwork or anything from the courts.

 

Thanks for the offer of help with the "bundle", very much appreciated.

 

I think its a good idea for all us here in N Ireland to be singing off the same hymn sheet, so to speak, and if we all had the same paperwork (slightly customised for each case obviously) then that would achieve that.

 

 

Gary

[caro]

Someone remind me why Northern Warrior used to be called Nervous. I've never seen such a transformation come with a simple name change. And Gary, I just love your battle cry! No need to apologise to the gorgeous Mel after the accent he came out with.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Someone remind me why Northern Warrior used to be called Nervous. I've never seen such a transformation come with a simple name change. And Gary, I just love your battle cry! No need to apologise to the gorgeous Mel after the accent he came out with.

Hey Caro, nice to have you back, how are things? Well, Bankfodder made me realise that the name was wrong and it only made the banks feel more superior and what with his academic expertise and knowledge he made me feel safe and secure in what I was doing and once I knuckled down and concentrated on what I was supposed to be doing, I could feel the anger welling up inside me and the way that the bank just presumed i was not going to go to court and was just going to cave in instead! So, here I am, also it was a lot to do with you as well, what with all your help and advice, so realistically i have you and bankfodder to hug,kiss and be thankful for.

NorthernWarrior.xx

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Yes, Gary, you are right about having the same court bundles regarding CYNthesis and the National Australian Bank and when you need them i'll do my best in sending them as attachements.

NorthernWarrior.

P.S.

The battle cry started in your first line on your first thread, but that was just sheer coincidence on my part. xx

[garygumps]

Online claim status has been updated. Latest action is "Transfer (civil) case".

 

I assume this just means that as the Northern are disputing the case it is being transferred to local court (Newtownards). Should be getting a court date soon then.

 

Still no reply from the bank to my questions.

 

All the best

 

Gary

[garygumps]

OK people, I really need a bit of advice and guidance here.

 

The bank phoned me at work yesterday regarding my clarification questions I wrote to them about on 5 July. I was "given", verbally obviously,the dates of 3 charges that they claim were refunded.

 

They also explained how the maintenance fee system works, and as Bally35 previously posted, I was only charged this if I went into my agreed overdraft. They said as this was part of my terms & conditions for this particular current account, these charges cannot be included in my claim.

 

The renewal fees were for renewing the overdraft facility and they are legitimate fees (like DD setups and such) and cannot be included in my claim.

 

So heres were I am at. Regarding the refunded items, fair enough, if they have been refunded at some time, then I will have to accept that I can't include them. Even though I asked for written proof, they only gave me this verbally. I can trust the bank can't I?

 

The renewal fees, i will have to accept that I cant include them either.

 

My biggest quandry, is still these monthly maintenance fees. I keep changing my mind about this, particularly as others have been paid these????

 

I also pointed out that as the court claim had been filed then interest was now due (+court fee). They said that as they were offering full refund of applicable charges (in their opinion:rolleyes: ) then interest was not due. I reminded them that if they had offered this amount before I filed, and that I had given them enough time, then this offer MAY have been enough but it was too late!

 

So, what do I do now? I want to send a FINAL schedule (with the amendments), but dont know whether to hold out on the maintenance fee bits????

 

Gary

[caro]

If the charges were refunded you should be able to find them on your statements. Do your statements back up what they said about the maintenance fee. I think Northern Warrior got those back didn't she? Definitely hold out for the interest because as you rightly say, if they'd tried to deal with it earlier, you wouldn't have needed to claim through the court.

 

Above all, if they phone you again, unless you have recording equipment, ask them to write to you with any information and questions they may have and politely refuse to speak to them about it. You don't want to accidentally say something you later regret when you've had a chance to think about it.

 

2 questions spring to mind.

 

1 How much would it be to amend your claim (or can you do it for nothing if the bank agrees)? If you have to pay for an amendment it isn't claimable.

 

2 How much is the interest?

[garygumps]

2 questions spring to mind.

 

1 How much would it be to amend your claim (or can you do it for nothing if the bank agrees)? If you have to pay for an amendment it isn't claimable.

 

2 How much is the interest?

 

Hi Caro.

 

1 - How much to amend the claim? I dont understand what you mean. Do you mean to pay the court to amend the claim?:? I wasn't aware you could do this. I was just hoping to maybe "negotiate" any amendments before any hearing date and then if I was satisfied then inform the court that the claim was settled to my satisfaction.

 

2 - The maximum interest at the moment (as claimed by me ignoring any amendments) is £234 reducing to £175 if I concede to the banks amendments. This amounts to about 12/13 % of total claim. Not that much I suppose, but its just that I've been including interest in any settlement figure for so long now, that it would seem to me that I was giving something away, know what I mean?

 

I'm about 70/30 in favour of playing hardball on the maintenance fees and taking them to the wire.

 

Gary

[caro]

You can amend your claim with the English court which costs 35.00, so I was thinking that if the difference in interest was less than 35.00 it wasn't worth amending. You're probably right that you can just reduce it by negotiation. I'm inclined to agree with you about the maintenance fees as we know they've paid them before.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Hi Gary. First of all to the statement of the Northern Bank---- CRAP!! Secondly, what and why do are you doing amendments?

My £9.50 always appeared with the referral fees and then I was also charged the fees and interest. I INCLUDED the fees because these were deemed to be unfair. Yes, I had gone over my overdraft, obviously and for the bank to say that these are included in the terms and conditions , well, isn't this what we are objecting to? All of the referral fees and these sporadic £9.50 charges have been included in their fees as I have said. With me, they seemed to charge the fees and interest in June and December, but then I noticed the fees cropping up again 2 months after those dates and that was why I included them because they are unlawful!! Also, for the bank to say that you are not entitled to interest because they have offered a settlement is a load of TRIPE!! You are entitled to your interest because once again, they have continuously charged you every day for being overdrawn, haven't they??? Continue with your claim, they are trying to weigh you down and the ombudsman is going to review their charges at the end of the year, so they are panicking not only you but themselves. Gary, be strong, and another thing, verbal conversation is not something I like. Chit chat can be easily be miscontrued and as Caro said, apart from bugging your line ( you also need to advise them of that by law) they could have people monitoring their side of the calls and you therefore have no witnesses. Everything MUST be done in writing from hereon in. Prepare your court bundles and now ignore them unless, they are going to acknowledge your claim and pay up including the interest. Remember, I didn't hear from them until 2 days before the court appearance and as I have already said, I was so mad, I was going in!!

Do your tribal call and hold your head up high!!!!

We are all here for you!! I know it is scary, but do you know what kept me going? If and it was a BIG if, i lost, at least i did not have any legal fees to pay, so in effect, i was losing nothing. But as I won, well enough said. Please do be strong, Gary, this is just another scare tactic, the bank will not go to court. As i said, when the National Australia Bank owned the Northern in the South as well, it was (if you want to continue with your court case, I will fill you in).

NorthernWarrior.xxxxx:)

[garygumps]

Thanks NW for the support.

 

If you got paid those fees then I'm keeping them in:D .

 

The "amendments" are for charges that had been paid back (alledgedly:rolleyes: ) so I can't really keep them in. Only comes to reducing my claim by about £80.

 

final letter & schedule going off tomorrow.

 

thanks again

Gary

 

ps Just checked online, case listed for hearing 20 November!!!!! Bloody 'ell thats 4 months to wait!

[garygumps]

Right, I've been thinking about this overnight.

 

TBH, the fact that I now have to wait practically 4 months until the hearing date has got me down a bit. Wasn't expecting it to be that long really:(

 

Basically, the difference between me and the bank is £200 in total, and I dont really know if its worth waiting 4 months (assuming they take it up to the last minute:rolleyes: ) for an extra £200.

 

I haven't sent off my latest letter yet (it is all sealed up and stamped ready to post this morning). Gonna think a bit more and will of course hear any comments you guys have.

 

Gary

[caro]

It's what it's worth to you that counts Gary. If it was me, I'd be fighting them all the way to get all of my money back. It can't be denied that the process can be stressful, and you may have more important matters to attend to.

 

Having said that, the only thing you need to do now is produce a court bundle which you can print off from the site. I can send you CYNthesys info as well if you want it. You could probably forget about this for 3 of those 4 months you need to wait. It just seems a shame to come so far, and then compromise when you're on the home run.

 

I repeat though, you must do what is best for you. If you're happy with it, then I'm happy for you.

 

(The new and improved Northern Warrior might have something to say about it though. I don't know what BankFodder said to her, but the new name seems to have brought about a new personality too.)

[garygumps]

 

(The new and improved Northern Warrior might have something to say about it though. I don't know what BankFodder said to her, but the new name seems to have brought about a new personality too.)

 

LOL I know what you mean Caro! Her last few posts to me have given me the impression of "virtually" being shaken by the shoulders and being told to get a grip!!!! Hey NW "only slaggin'" (local joke, she should get it).

 

Seriously though, I take on board your comments on being close to the end, its just that everything up to now has been to a quick clearly defined timetable so to speak, and now its all on hold for longer than its taken up to now, you know?

 

At least I have a Capital One claim to play about with, and going by other threads it should be settled without a court date.

Gary