garygumps v Northern Bank (NI) ***SETTLED***

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Hi garygumps, the 'court bundle' to be submitted before your court hearing is 10 clear days, in N.Ireland. 14 days elsewhere. I'm watching your thread and you are doing well.

nervous.

[garygumps]

Hi nervous, nice to know you are still around!!!

 

The latest small claims pack (which I got from N'ards Court today) says that all relevant paperwork/evidence should be sent in with the application form. By this I would assume preliminary letter, letter before action and schedule of charges. Surely you dont need to send in the actual information supplied by the bank in response to the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)?

 

The leaflet says that any expert witness evidence should be submitted 14 days before any hearing date.

 

Nervous, what did you include in your bundle? You said your hearing was listed for 25th May, was it deferred or something? Your thread has gone very quiet.

 

Sorry to go on about this but some of the information around doesn't seem to be consisitant.

 

 

Gary

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Gary, you are right. It is inconsistent! On my letter detailing court date it states that i must submit all evidence, bills, invoices statemens etc 10 clear days before court date! Photocopy all of your letters,and then use the spread sheets for your charges.Don't send in copies of your statements, that is not necessary just yet. Use the template from the library when it states 'Please describe in simple terms details of your claim.It is all there in the library, you can't go wrong.I'm still watching your thread.GO FOR IT!!!!!

Nervous.

P.S. I am going to change my name, but I don't yet know to what!

[garygumps]

OK, its time to go to the next stage, filing a court claim.

 

To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed about the lack of any type of offers, compared to some other cases here on this forum.

 

Ah well, maybe a little letter from the NI Court Service (NICS) will galvanise a little action.

 

I'm wanting to keep the paperwork down to a minimum, so I'm seriously considering using the NICS Small Claim Online service, so I'm going to look into that over the weekend.

 

Any advice or comments would be gratefully appreciated.

 

One other thing, which address do you put on the claim for the Respondent, is it the local branch still or maybe headoffice???

 

Gary

[TheNorthernWarrior]

HI, garygumps, I'm sorry my case is so secretative, but don't worry, the mods and bankfodder will advise you and i will as well as much as i am allowed to do so. It sounds very mysterious, but just wait and see. File on line if your claim is below the £2000.00. If not, continue to ask for the full amount from the bank, but if you can, split your claim into 2, IF you are over the limit and ONLY when you have received your first settlement!! Very important that. Secondly, if you are at the online stage,address everything to head office, I did. Cos at the end of the day, the correspondence seems to end up there and the Northern , well from my experience, seemed to be directing all their correspondence from there.The secrecy is due to the fact that a CITI BANK solicitor would watch this site and follow the threads and so therefore was armed with knowledge going into court. It's nothing personal. Anyway, what stage are you at, exactly? Chin up and don't worry, we are reading your threads!!

NorthernWarrior.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Remember to stick to YOUR timetable. If you are at Online stage, it's 14 days for them to defend. Don't give them time, they wouldn't for you if you owed them money, remember that!

NorthernWarrior.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

garygumps, do you have any of the T & C'S? If you have can you pm them, i need them,thanks.

NorthernWarrior.

[garygumps]

Hey 'Warrior nice to hear from you.

 

I thought your case was listed for 25th May? Was it rescheduled?

 

Well as I say, my 14 time limit after LBA is up today and haven't heard a dickeybird apart from the local branch manager trying to arrange a face to face meeting which I declined:)

 

So i'm now at the stage of entering a small claim (£1500+ 8% interest + costs ) so will be well under £2K limit.

 

I'm considering an online claim as it initially doesn't require all the paperwork and such and I'm hoping that a summons (for want of a better description) will gee tham up a bit.

 

Also, after reading the Which? website, they are now advising claimants to go to the Financial Ombudsman first (following the recent Lloyds cases in Birmingham and LAncaster). There reasoning for this is that an approach to the FO is even less formal than the Small Claims Court and that no official judgements have been published, meaning that EVERY case sent to the FO has been settled by the Bank in question. The only downside is that you have to give the bank a lot more time to respond (typically 8 weeks) before complaining.

 

Anyone any opinion on this?

 

Gary

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Most people here go through CAG. i would say to you, just go straight ahead and file online. The bank will not go to court and even if they do, well, there is a hellava lot of support and advice here and people are winning here too,besides I really don't think the Northern would like to be the first to go, too much to explain! Remember i won my 1st part of the claim and i don't know if i am allowed to say any more? So the answer is go and start your online NOW!

Remember,garygumps what have you to lose, nothing but everything to gain!!!!!

I'll help as much as I can, just keep reading all the threads and especially the stickys.

NorthernWarrior.xx

[garygumps]

We have progress!!!! Sort of.

 

Spoke to bank today about other account issues and my claim came up in conversation. After their investigation, thay are claiming that some of the charges (old ones mostly) had been refunded at the time! I cannot honestly remember, and the details were on the computer print out version (pre takeover by Danske, not copy statements). They say they will send out evidence of this. Anyway they initially offered £600 (I am claiming £1500) eventually going up to £1200! I said I'd think about it after they send me out all the details.

 

Now here's the funny bit. I had left details at home with my brother about filing an online claim this morning. As I was talking to my bank, he was online submitting the claim which with 8% interest and costs was up to £1817!!!! Plus, a letter to the court with a revised schedule of charges is in the post. So I'm now £62 (Fee) more out of pocket!

 

I'm pretty ****ed off TBH at the timing of everything as I could've saved £62. Or do you all think that I should stick to my guns?

 

The more I think about it, I'm annoyed that this "evidence" of repayment of some older charges (which I can't remember nor have evidence of) was not supplied earlier with the original S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). If they have evidence now that some of the charges are not now relevant, why could they not have made this clear in the original list.

 

I haven't agreed to anything as such as as I have said they are sending stuff out to me for approval.

 

Advice please????????????????/

 

Gary

[nishields]

Gary,

 

Not sure what the best advice is on this one, if quick and easy money would sort your own situation out best then taking a settlement at this stage might help. However, now that you've filed for court you could tell them that to avoid unnecessary court hearing you would be willing to accept the settlement amount in full without interest or fees, thus saving them 300 odd quid, which should entice them, as at this stage they virtually guaranteed to have to pay out the full sum. Or you could stick to your guns and see the process through......

[garygumps]

Thanks NISHIELDS.

 

Hmmmmmm, I'm going to wait and see what arrives by way of documentation. I phoned them back and they are agreeing to refund the £62 as well:) . So it will be interesting to see exactly which charges had been refunded from what dates and what "evidence" thay have to support this. The more i think about it the more I am getting suspicious. According to the bank over £300 worth of charges had been refunded. thats an awful lot, and I don't remember asking for that many (if any) and I couldn't see the bank refunding them automatically:rolleyes: .

 

I think I'll let the process continue( paid for it after all!) and there maybe a bit more correspondence on this one.

 

I just hope the bank don't take the ugly over not accepting an offer and this will not jeopardise my claim in any way. I suppose we've got until a hearing date to sort something out.

 

I've just thought that maybe the bank are not accepting that some of the charges i listed as valid? Anyone else had any experience of this? There were a few "unspecified" on the list that i threw in (monthly maintenance fees perhaps?) but these only come to £133????

 

My heads spinning:confused: :confused: . Just have to wait and see.

 

 

Gary

[TheNorthernWarrior]

gary, I submitted ALL charges, because I worked out that even the maintenance fees were also part of the overdraft charges. They did not query this and i don't know whether i am stupid or what, but did you say you don't have your copies of the past 6 yrs? By quoting the Data Protection Act they are obliged to give you those copies. As i said, i went for everything and i would just say to you if you don't need £300.00 plus ,fine, but if it that applied to me, i would stick to my guns and continue claiming. If you owed thm £300.00 what do you think they would do? Charge more interest of course!! The fact that they are offering settlement means they know that they are wrong. So, be careful and have a good think and you know, you have come this far, is that line not pretty close? I think you are doing really well, so be brave, we've all been there>

NorthernWarrior.

[garygumps]

OK, got official letter today. Basically it is a standard fob off letter saying that their charges were fair blah blah and I should have been more careful running my account. They are further claiming that quarterly activity fees, monthly maintenance fees or overdraft renewal fees should not be included in my schedule because " those fees do not relate to charges for unauthorised borrowing". Well the figures just don't add up!!! If I did take out those fees they would only come to £131.

 

Oh and get this, they are offering "in an effort to resolve the matter " only offering me £1050!:o Im positive we had verbally agreed £1200 odd.

 

So sod em. The claim is in motion. I had actually given them more time than declared in my LBA so they have had enough time to come up with this reply. It was only the fact that their offer came literally an hour after I entered the claim online that I got a bit confused, but I'm clear on things now. Off to the rejection letters templates now

[garygumps]

OK, I've drafted up a rejection letter which basically goes like this.......

 

 

"Thank you for your letter dated 19 June. I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement of £1050.00.

I do not agree with your argument that the monthly maintenance fees/ quarterly activity fees do not relate to charges for unauthorised borrowing and so should not be included in my schedule of charges. In my opinion these charges are directly linked to the other charges for exceeding overdraft and related fees, as they were levied on each occasion that the other charges were levied. As such, I feel that they are inextricably linked to your regime of unfair and over-proportionate charges. I am confident a judge will agree with me.

As you are aware, I have already commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on 19 June and I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction.

I trust this clarifies my position."

 

I'm going to post it off on Monday, any comments on the wording and such would be appreciated.

 

The claim papers have not been served yet because of a technicality about which I am corresponding with the Civil Processing Centre at Laganside Courts. Basically, they will not accept an individual branch address but need the registered office address of Northern Bank which is Donegall Square West Belfast (its at the bottom of any letter you get from the Northern).

 

Gary

[nishields]

Best of luck mate, keep us all posted......

[caro]

Stick to your guns Gary. In order to comply with your SAR they should have supplied all info, including that of refunded charges. They need to prove they did that. You are completely justified in continuing your claim.

[garygumps]

Thanks guys for the encouragement, especially you Caro with I'm sure more important things on your mind at the momemt:)

 

Well, the Head Office should be getting served with the papers next week hopefully, so maybe that will clear their heads a bit and stop playing silly buggers:rolleyes:

 

Gary

[garygumps]

Rejection letter as above posted today.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Hmmm! Not sure if we have a 'Big Brother eye' watching our threads. The reference to these maintenance fees seems to be cropping up all of a sudden in the Northern's letters. I think maybe we should all be a little bit more careful about stating what our next prep work is to be once we have reached the online court claim. I think, gary, that if you need help with 'court bundle',etc, pm myself or a mod or bankfodder. I am a little suspicious right now. I will pm you.

NorthernWarrior.xx

[garygumps]

NorthernWarrior, I've PM'd a reply to you.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Garygumps, read my thread-- Northernwarrior v Northern Bank-- my secrecy is now over!! I have won and more!!!!!!!!! you know, if they had settled in the beginning when I first started this i was asking for £4000.00 back, instead i've now got £5000.00 plus. They really are not so bright as one would want you to believe. Follow my leads and you can pm me if you get to the court bundle stage, i have really interesting news which i think could have been extremely difficult for the bank to disprove. My bundle had an awful lot of references to the Old NationaL Australia Bank which owned the Northern in the South as well as the North and of course,do not forget CYNthesys. That really is the bullet!!

Northernwarrior.xx

YIPPEE!!!!!!!!!

[garygumps]

Just checked online claim status.

 

Small claim packs issued 29 June with a return date of 31 July:)

 

Gary

[garygumps]

My "complaint" seems to have been passed up the line following receipt of rejection letter.

 

Received letter from Service Recovery, Donegall Square, Belfast. They should also or have already got court papers.

[garygumps]

OK, need a bit of advice.

 

Got another letter today upping the offer to £1262. Basically, they are willing to refund the charges for unauthorised borrowing, namely, referral fees, warning letters and unpaid items fees.

 

They are not willing to refund the monthly maintenance fees and a couple of renewal fees (whatever they were for)??

 

Now , the claim has already been processed by the courts so do I.....

 

1- Play hardball and sit tight and let the threat of a judge to decide what constitutes a valid charge to claim back.

 

2- Accept their argument, but calculate a revised schedule of charges with 8% interest on top plus of course my court costs

 

 

Gary