Claiming for a third party

[nevilley]

Hi,

Well hasn't it got busy in here over the last day Quite amazing what Sir Trevor can do for a site. Anyway to business.

 

I'm not in debt and I don't suffer from bank charges. However, a friend of mine does. I am trying to help her sort things out. She lives entirely on benefits and currently when her benefits hit her HSBC account they are completely absorbed by bank charges as the monthy charges exceed her monthy income. This has the knock on effect that none of her bills (ie her DDs) get paid and she is now drowning in debt. She has had her house up for sale since last November but has not been able to sell it as yet. She is also on DLA due to drepression so is really incapable of acting on her own behalf.

 

Q1: I'm just a "man in the street" so can I act for/with my friend.?

Q2: Her account is over 25 years old, ie was opened before 1995 when it was the Midland Bank, will this cause any "special problems" to her action?

Q3: She is likely to end up homeless as a result of the HSBC making these charges on her account. Is her claim limited to only the recovery of the bank charges.

 

Sorry if you've been asked all this before. I know how tedious it is to keep answering the same questions, but we all have to start somewhere and these questions don't seem to be in the FAQs. Or at least I couldn't find them.

 

Thanks in advance for any info.

 

Nev

[neilloffhagen]

Q1: I'm just a "man in the street" so can I act for/with my friend.?

Yes, if she signs a letter giving you authority to act on her behalf. I expect it would need specfic woding and there I'm afraid I can't help you.

 

Q2: Her account is over 25 years old, ie was opened before 1995 when it was the Midland Bank, will this cause any "special problems" to her action?

Age of account is no problem. I opened my Midland acount in 1974 and have still been able to succesfully claim for the past 6 years. Going back further is another step.

 

Q3: She is likely to end up homeless as a result of the HSBC making these charges on her account. Is her claim limited to only the recovery of the bank charges.

You may be able to claim for other dmamages but that is another ball-game and I don't think that can be helped with here? Unless anyone has any ideas?

 

I would strongly suggest you/she contact the CCCS who can help when people are in serious debt problems. They may want to speak to your friend direct though.

[mwl]

Hi,

 

Q1: I'm just a "man in the street" so can I act for/with my friend.?

 

 

Yes In court if your friend has a registered disability then you can act on their behalf under the title "Litigation Friend" on the claim form. You can act on the claimants behalf however you can not charge fees ( that are recoverable against the bank) for your services [not that you have suggested you would]. The simplimst way (to avoid Data protection rules/ litigation friend suitability forms, is to prepare the case for your friend but issue it in her name. You can state an address for correspondence to be sent to (which can be yours if you wish).

 

The above is presuming it goes that far, as stated a letter of written authority to act on their behalf signed by the account holder may be suitable for this issue, but again strictly without a Power of Attorney the bank could prove difficult to manage, so tehbest way may be to assist your friend by preparing documents getting her to sign them and send them to the bank and then for her to pass the replies to you etc...

 

Q2: Her account is over 25 years old, ie was opened before 1995 when it was the Midland Bank, will this cause any "special problems" to her action?

 

regardless of when theaccount was opened the limit for reclaiming of charges is the last six years

 

Q3: She is likely to end up homeless as a result of the HSBC making these charges on her account. Is her claim limited to only the recovery of the bank charges.

 

this claim would be, any other claims would likely to be of stubstantial nature requiring the assistance of a qualified soilcitor as it would fall over the threahold of £5000 that the small claims would be limited to, as a litigation friend you would lose the right to address the court

 

Sorry if you've been asked all this before. I know how tedious it is to keep answering the same questions, but we all have to start somewhere and these questions don't seem to be in the FAQs. Or at least I couldn't find them.

 

hope this helps

[maverik1979]

dont worry about it, as long as you've read the faq's properly, everyone on here is always trying to help one another, so if youre not sure then better to ask

[nevilley]

Thanks for the replies and the encouragement.

I think the best way for me to go is to prepare the letters and get her to sign them. It will take a little longer as she's in Liverpool and I'm in Norwich, but we'll just keep plodding along.

 

Nev

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I don't have a .sig yet.

[nevilley]

Right then, here I go. Everything has been on hold while I got the HSBC account in order and into credit. I didn't really want to have to make multiple claims.

Also I had to go work out of the country for a while. But now I'm back!

 

Things are being made difficult as the HSBC refuse to deal with me as a 3rd party even though the account holder has sent them a written request to do so. As a result I'm doing all the work and getting the account holder to just sign the letters. Just to add extra spice to the whole thing the DSS stopped her income support two weeks ago without warning. They probably think that as she suffers mental health probles she'll just die and leave them alone. But I guess that's a whole other fight.

 

I sent the first letter to the HSBC on 19/2/2007 requesting repayment of £1036.38 charges and intrest over the last 18months.

 

 

Now I wait.

 

Nev

[nevilley]

OK so I've waited 14 days.

Got a standard letter and a leaflet back which I ignored.

I sent the 2nd letter to which I've had no reply.

So now I'm filling in the court forms.

 

Some body please give me encouragement.

[nettyg]

all the best with it nevilley. if you need the particulars of claim to fill in i can pm you mine if you like.

[nevilley]

Hi, I'm filling in the form N1 and don't want to mess it up (shame I can't save it part done) at the end of page 1 is a section for "Defendant's name & Addres" should this be the HSBC head office at Canada Square or the Branch where the account is held?

 

Also, in the particulars of claim section, I don't know the date the account was opened, would the phrase "over 25 years ago" be acceptable ?

[nettyg]

Hi, I'm filling in the form N1 and don't want to mess it up (shame I can't save it part done) at the end of page 1 is a section for "Defendant's name & Addres" should this be the HSBC head office at Canada Square or the Branch where the account is held?

yes canada square address

Also, in the particulars of claim section, I don't know the date the account was opened, would the phrase "over 25 years ago" be acceptable ?

yes or you could write in 'since 1982'

[lateralus]

also, just checking here - you haven't just added on all the interest debits straight on to the list of charges have you because that would be incorrect. if you are going to reclaim overdraft interest - you need to use the advanced s/s in the library and it will pick up a portion, or none or all of each interest debit - depending on your overdraft at the time of the charge. so, if you are claiming o/d interest - be sure to use the advanced s/s. if you are just referring to the 8% interest which you can reclaim at the claim filing stage - just using the simple s/s is fine. hope i haven't confused you - just making sure - as so many are doing the o/d interest incorrectly by just totalling it up and adding it on.

get back if you still don't understand what i'm telling you.

[nevilley]

Phew! Yes I used the complex excel sheet. I am trusting that it gives the correct numbers.

 

Am I allowed to add on the new charges they have made since I first started, only two lots of £12.95 but my friend is on income support. (well she was until the abstrads stopped it, but that's another story).

[lateralus]

yes, you can add on up until you file the claim. after that it would cost and i hear the amendment form is a bit tricky.

 

 

on another note: is your friend aware that the bank can not use benefits to pay themselves charges. take a look at this:

Right of Appropriation - Stop the bank from taking your money(1 Viewing) [/url]

and one more thing - if they are on benefits - they may not have to pay the court filing fee: Are You Exempt From Court Fees?.

[nevilley]

Hmmm that's interesting. I shall have to remember that. As for not having to pay the court fees my friend also has the problem that the DSS stopped her benefits 6 weeks ago. So at the moment she doesn't know if she is or isn't on income support. She should be but the DSS have not written to her at all, not even to say they were stopping payments. !! I am currently lending her money every week to buy food and pay rent etc until they get their fingers out. It never rains but it pours.

[nevilley]

HO HO HO. Well after several weeks of "no comment" today I get two letters. One from HSBC offering about half of our claim, which I shall reject, and the notice of issue from the court. Now that's what I call great timing.

[nevilley]

Right then, looks like I've f**ked up. The letter from the bank rejects £110 of the claim as it's a "plus account fee". I was told nothing about this by the person I'm claiming for. What advice would you give. Stick it out or take the offer and run. Sad bit is I've already sent the forms to the court (see earlier posts) and paid the court fees.

[lateralus]

well, if friend signed up for plus account - then i don't think it will be reclaimable - but if they didn't (after watching whistleblower last week, it seems banks just put you on these accounts without your consent sometimes - so check it out) i'd fight it to the death!

i wouldn't worry too much about it - just assume for the moment that you won't get that amount back - so how does the offer look in comparison to what you were asking minus that amount? if it's getting closer - we could send a letter accepting that amount if they agree to pay your court costs as you've already filed - they usually will cough up the extra for the court fee. - so, would what they are offering plus the court fee - come anywhere near what you were asking minus the disallowed charge? if so, might be best to go for the extra - i'll post the letter here for you if that's what you want to do. if there is a big gap in that equation - and you want to reject that offer and go for all of it (except perhaps that one fee) then that would be the way to go -

only you and your friend can sort out which is best -

get back and i'll help with letters, if you like.

[nevilley]

Well, managed to get said friend on the phone last night. They know nothing about a "plus account" so it was most likely pushed on her without her knowing, although I'm sure hey got a signature for it. There is £110 of charges for that and £20 for a temp overdraft limit fee made at the same time. I suspect they pushed a form in front of her when she was very overdrawn, which is when she could least afford a further £6.47 (for 6 months then £12.95) but she is one of those who glazes over as soon as you start to explain how things work. Any how their offer was only £629, our claim is for £1036.38 (now £1233.19 as it's gone to court). As it's already gone to court I've told then (by using letter#5) to refer it to legal. If nothing else it's nice to see they can't respond in the sort of time scales they force on us when it's the other way round and as a result they are now faced with a further £120 in court fees.

[givememymoney]

What timescales are you working to? When do you file with the court?

[nevilley]

It was filed on the 28th.

[nevilley]

Just an update.

Today I got the AQ form to fill in. HSBC have lodged a defence, but it looks like a standard letter, there is nothing specific to this case.

However, the paperwork appears to be suggesting that I must go to mediation first.

[lateralus]

yes, well it would - it would help the courts...

we are thinking if you just keep track of what you have done and how dg doesn't respond to anything - that would be sufficient. pete has a good response about mediation - i'll ask him to tell you.

 

in the meantime - check the aq deadline and here is the info for filling it out:

 

aq info:

Allocation Questionnaires - A guide to completion

this is your step by step completion guide -and here is:New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

and here is how to use it:

for section g of the n149 (section h on the n150), use the wording in blue on post #3 of new strategy link, and then attach draft order for directions - use wording on post #2 of new strategy link(the bit in blue) making sure to add your name and court claim number to all pages. simple as that. just follow the steps with these two minor additions. the draft order is just asking the judge to order both parties to lay out their wares within 14 days of him ordering it - so it shortens the length of the time to a court date - and as dg/hsbc/all banks don't want to do it - they will pay up by offer or just not file their aq in which case you also win.

 

on, the other front - of this two pronged thing - have you sent dg a breakdown of your charges - it is advisable to do that, as they always ask for one before they offer anything - so it saves a couple of days.

and unless your claim is for under 1500 and wouldn't incur the filing fee of 100, i suggest leaving it until the aq is nearly due before filing it - as dg have been coming in with offers just before the due date in several cases.

 

 

get back if you've questions.....

[Castlebest]

Hiya Nev, I have seen a couple of sets of directions from the court, they normally say something like you have to talk to DG and try to settle the claim or mediate or ask the judge to remove the stay and make a judgement, see this thread post 261 onwards.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/62692-gimmie-my-money-hsbc.html

 

and this one

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/85935-claim-stayed-help-please.html

 

Mediation is a non starter there is nothing to mediate DG will pay your whole claim the question is when.

 

My suggestion in this situation would be to bombard DG for a week with phone calls, email and a few letters, record times and dates for everything. You might get an offer but if you don’t write to the District Judge and say look I have tried to settle this and I'm getting nowhere.

 

pete

[lateralus]

nevilley, there are some letters to use as guides to writing to dg - i'm calling them nudge letters - on post 1 of both these threads - they vary a little - so use what you can........When you have filed your AQ................

New---after 28 Days - Maybe No Aq!!!!!!!

and may i say again what a nice person you are for being such a good friend to your friend.

[Castlebest]

If you have the same directions that Tom and Quirky have you can beef up Latties letters into more of a demand rather than a request because the Judge has directed you to get a settlement, its not you doing this the District Judge has told you to do it, so use it.

pete