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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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Other half V HSBC


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Hi to all you out there claiming against HSBC. I am currently claiming against Lloyds in another thread of which is going at the usual pace that i expected from lloyds.

 

Anyway...On the 30th of April i decided to get the ball rolling with HSBC by sending them a S.A.R Letter. This account was my gilfriends that she used for having her wages paid into some time ago,i say "was" because the account got closed quite a while back now due to financial difficulties.

We had a loan with HSBC of which we are still paying off through a debt management company. I don't know where we stand with this one as we still have an outstanding balance which as i mentioned before is still being paid through the Debt Management,So if we were successful in claiming back our charges,would these contribute to paying off some of the outstanding balance or is this a sepreate account altogether..?

 

Advice on this would be greatly appreciated..Thanks.

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Hi Doz, and welcome to the wonderful forum that is HSBC :)

 

Was the loan due to unlawful charges on the account? If so I believe you would also be able to claim the loan interest you have paid on this loan. If it wasn't for the charges, you wouldn't have the loan.

 

Ideally the reclaim of charges would repay the loan and also you might be able to reclaim the loan interest paid on the loan. This is what I did for my husband, we successfully reclaimed his charges and his loan interest and paid off the loan.

 

Was the loan a "managed loan??

REFUNDED

Hubbys - HSBC £4,165 paid 18/8 after MCOL issued :)

HSBC - £651 paid 18/8 after MCOL issued :)

HSBC - £147 Prel 7/8, LBA 21/8, MCOL 6/9 £241

Hubby Halifax - Prel 29/7 £215, LBA 21/8, Offer rec. £110 22/8, MCOL 6/9 £298

Abbey - £2758 - Prel 26/6, LBA 10/7 - MCOL 26/7 £3,391, offer 25/8 £1,755.94, paid £3567.32 after Case manag hearing

Barclays - £675 Prel7/8, LBA 21/8, offer received £300 MCOL 6/9 £998 - Paid £1,012 before going to Court

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Hi Tigs and thanks for the welcome.:)

In answer to your question i don't think (not sure) if the loan was due to unlawful charges, we took out an extra loan which was for other reasons but not to clear any charges on the account i don't think. Untill i get my statements and browse through them i can't be specific, but i do remember signing some paperwork which meant that the interest would be wiped off from the loan (about £4000 in interest if i remember correctly) and the outstanding balance is now being paid through Debt Management.

I also recall something about a Managed loan which i think was what the paperwork we signed was. I'ts all a bit hazy at the moment as i am fully concentrating on my other claim with Lloyds and have so much info aimlessly floating around my head. :confused:

You seem as though you have had quite some experience with all of this so would i be able pick your brains at some stage if i get stuck..?

Oh...thanks for you reply too!...all info is greatly appreciated.;)

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Yes of course you can pick my brains :) as the others have said as well there are a lot of knowledgeable people on there and some excellent threads to read.

REFUNDED

Hubbys - HSBC £4,165 paid 18/8 after MCOL issued :)

HSBC - £651 paid 18/8 after MCOL issued :)

HSBC - £147 Prel 7/8, LBA 21/8, MCOL 6/9 £241

Hubby Halifax - Prel 29/7 £215, LBA 21/8, Offer rec. £110 22/8, MCOL 6/9 £298

Abbey - £2758 - Prel 26/6, LBA 10/7 - MCOL 26/7 £3,391, offer 25/8 £1,755.94, paid £3567.32 after Case manag hearing

Barclays - £675 Prel7/8, LBA 21/8, offer received £300 MCOL 6/9 £998 - Paid £1,012 before going to Court

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"Silence of the Lambs" springs to mind:eek: :o :o :o :o lol

 

luckily we are only "conversing" over the internet !!!!! lol :D

REFUNDED

Hubbys - HSBC £4,165 paid 18/8 after MCOL issued :)

HSBC - £651 paid 18/8 after MCOL issued :)

HSBC - £147 Prel 7/8, LBA 21/8, MCOL 6/9 £241

Hubby Halifax - Prel 29/7 £215, LBA 21/8, Offer rec. £110 22/8, MCOL 6/9 £298

Abbey - £2758 - Prel 26/6, LBA 10/7 - MCOL 26/7 £3,391, offer 25/8 £1,755.94, paid £3567.32 after Case manag hearing

Barclays - £675 Prel7/8, LBA 21/8, offer received £300 MCOL 6/9 £998 - Paid £1,012 before going to Court

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Quick update...19 days now since i sent a S.A.R to HSBC but still no statements yet..Iv'e checked royal mails web site and it's been signed for so no probs there..Guess i'll just have to wait for a while longer.!

Never the less i have 2 other claims in the progress at present so i have plently to keep me occupied for now. Just reaching MCOL stage with lloyds and after yesterdays events i'm a little more nervous than normal but hopefully that will go according to plan, fingers crossed..:)

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  • 2 weeks later...

It is 40 calendar days not working days. Try sending a polite reminder to them, informing them that they have until xx.xx.07 to comply. Attach a copy of your original SAR with it.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

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also - as they are so very busy with these requests - sometimes a polite chit chat at your branch can work wonders - along the lines of - you know this business of reclaiming bank charges - well i sent my subject access request in ages ago and haven't heard a bean - anything you might be able to do to gee them along? i've heard time and again - where they say - sure and you get it within a couple of days - you get them on a really slow day - they could even run off copies of your statements for you then and there - it's happened! so try the softly, softly approach - then this is your trump card.Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters

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It's now been 39 days (including 2 bank holidays) since sending a S.A.R to HSBC and still no statements as of yet! I got my other half to give them a call a few days ago as it is her account i am claiming back for just to check on their progress and the guy she spoke to said they have 40 working days to produce the statements which i know was wrong it's 40 calander days but my girlfriend was'nt aware of this at the time so she did'nt argue this!

So..do i now give them untill tomorrow before sending a non compliance letter or do i give them the 2 bank holidays to see if anything drops through my door?

HSBC are the only ones of all the requests i have made that have left it this long to comply. The account has been closed for at least 18 months now so im wondering if they are trying to pull a fast one, i don't know?

Could really do without the hastle of chasing this one up as i have 2 other claims pending, but if i have to then i will.!!

 

Any thoughts apreciated.

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yes, and then i'd ask very politely at your branch - as they can often hurry it up for you - tell them - politely, that you will be following it up shortly with a claim for non-compliance with a subject access request and you were hoping it was just a clerical thing and maybe they could help push it along. it does work. not a phone call - a trip in and yes, it is 40 calendar days and yes, they are very busy and yes, even a closed account - they have to cough up with what they have. shouldn't be much longer - try the branch approach.

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Some sound advice lateralus, thankyou.

I will be near my local branch tomorrow as the car needs an MOT:( (more expense!) so i will pop in then and ask the question. Lets hope this gives them a size 9 up the backside and they get it sorted!

 

Thanks again lateralus.;)

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Right...42 days now and still no statements!! Never had a chance to go into the local branch over the last few days as i have been busy but we will make a definate trip down there tomorrow (armed with a non compliance letter) to see if they can sort this out. If i dont get the response i'm looking for then i will hand the non compliance letter over to them personaly giving them seven days to get their asses in gear or i will see them in court!!

I'm hoping this will do the trick and i will post again tomorrow to let everyone know the outcome.

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I have recieved a letter from HSBC dated 7 June 07 and it reads:

 

Dear *********

Thank you for your request with regard to information about transactions and charges/fees on your account.

We will forward to you copies of statements covering the period in question. These will begin to arrive in seperate batches and will be with you shortly.

We are happy to waive any fees for the production of this information and in order to protect your security, we have destroyed the cheque you sent on bank premises.

Although many of our systems are automated, a "manual intervention" by HSBC staff may be required in a variety of situations including; account opening, dealing with correspondence or telephone calls, when deposits or withdrawals are made over the counter at our branches and from time to time during account administration.

If you require more information, please let us know.

Yours sincerely

Angela C Harris

Centre Manager

 

So i'm going to get them in dribs and drabs then but it has'nt cost me a tenna!

Bearing in mind i recieved this letter after 42 days of requesting them and up to now it has been 45 days.!!

A delaying tactic maybe..?

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Hello again. Right..some good & bad news, After a long wait most of my statements arrived this morning (12th June) but they only date back to 28th April 2002 so by my reckoning they still have to send me 9-10 months of statements which may come in the next few days as they sent me a letter saying they would come in batches.....we will see what happens???!!

 

So after looking though the earlier statements i have noticed they don't actually tell you what the charges are for?? It just says (total charges) and then ammount. How would i go about listing these charges in the spreadsheet, would it matter if i just put charge as i don't know what they are for?

 

There is also a charge of £10 for a stopped cheque, can i claim this.?

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If you are claiming on a personal account then you just need to put down "total charges". these charges actually are for you going over your agreed overdraft limit or going overdrawn when no overdraft facility is in place. At the moment they are charging £25 per day.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

:D

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As for your stopped cheque, if you requested them to stop a cheque then unfortunately you cannot claim this charge back.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

:D

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Hi jowalshy and thanks for your reply.

I didn't think i could claim for a stopped cheque but i thought i'd check anyway.

 

We are claiming for a personal current account so i just put "charge" and then the date of offence.

 

Thankyou for the advice.;)

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I would put exactly what it says on your statement.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]If you think my post was helpful, please feel free to click my scales

 

 

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

 

:D

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