Larger Amounts - To split or not to split

[Empire Strikes Back]

Having now calculated that our claim will be upwards of £13,000 we think we may go for it one in one hit. Has anyone any advice, has it been done before. The Spreadsheet was excellent for working out the interest. Many thanks.

[Seminole]

From one bank in six years? Is it for more than one account?

[Empire Strikes Back]

Yes, the bulk of it in the last 15 months, because they kept charging for lots of items around £20 to £60, and at £35 a time. The only reason we were in this mess is the bank charges, if they had not charged these amounts we would not have had to have any overdraft. Think you will find that we are only the tip of the iceberg on business accounts. A small business cannot carry this kind of unfair charging.

[Seminole]

Is this just for bounced item charges or have you included other types of charges?

[Empire Strikes Back]

This is for bounced cheques and direct debits. Once they get their teeth into you they don't let go. It is entirely their fault that the account went over. At one point the amount £6.61, and they don't tell you before they do it. ALSO they dont clear your paying-in, even when its cash, for at least 3-4 days, and cheques cannot be guaranteed for about 2 weeks according to them. But they did take their interest on the overdraft which had to be increased to cover their charges, usual thing from what I have read on here so far.

[Empire Strikes Back]

We have now worked out on one account charges of £4371.04, so have sent off first letter to Lloyds.

 

Still have other account open. Full of charges and fees (Approx £12K). So up to its limit on overdraft.

 

Light the Green touch paper and stand well back!!!!!!!!

[Empire Strikes Back]

Hi all,

Recieved standard letter from David Just yesterday, and same cr-- from Jean Campbell today,we are sending letter before action today and will keep you posted,one thing thats cropped up is, because we didnt need to apply for our statements ,as we already had them, we have no notes on manual intervention.We are thinking of asking for statments on our active account going back to when account opened in 1981(keep them busy), and the same on the account we are sending the letter before action on,We know we have charges on these accounts prior to the 6 years but not how much.

Any advise on the manual intervention side and also the going back to the year dot on the statement side.

 

Light the green touch paper and stand well back!!

[dcefx]

Manual Intervention - don't worry about it; the hope is that by enough people asking at some point the bank will slip up and make a statement that can then be used against them by everyone else. It's not an essential part of your claim.

 

Lloyds TSB business WILL put you through the mill on this one - they fired all sorts of alligations at us to try and scare us off (It's fraud, deception, you could be sued, if you lost ou'd have to pay costs, etc) but once you get past the business banking departments and on to the solicitors things get a bit more civil.

 

t

[lee6370]

Have to agree, Lloyds do tend to fight back, which in my opinion only adds to the satisfaction when you get the money back. God bless them.

[dave]

Manual Intervention - don't worry about it; the hope is that by enough people asking at some point the bank will slip up and make a statement that can then be used against them by everyone else. It's not an essential part of your claim.

 

Lloyds TSB business WILL put you through the mill on this one - they fired all sorts of alligations at us to try and scare us off (It's fraud, deception, you could be sued, if you lost ou'd have to pay costs, etc) but once you get past the business banking departments and on to the solicitors things get a bit more civil.

 

t

 

Can you elaborate on the allegations they threw at you?

[Empire Strikes Back]

Just update,claim issued through moneyclaim for £4365,feels like friday all ready!

[Empire Strikes Back]

Hi all, Lloyds have acknowledged claim 2 days before deadline,This is for our smaller claim.

[Empire Strikes Back]

Have received an acknowledgement of Service re our claim with Lloyds signed by someone from Martineau Johnson Solicitors. Have also had a letter from these solicitors it says

"We are unable to respond fully to the claim as you have not provided details of the individual charges which you are claiming. We would therefore be grateful if you could please let us have these details as a matter of urgency."

 

Not sure what they mean by this, should we have enclosed a copy of the spreadsheet with the charges on when we filed the claim with the court. should we now send a copy of the spreadsheet to these solicitors if so do we include the column with the 8% interest. We just put the amount owed in charges on the Moneyclaim form. When we reply to them is now the time to mention the McNamara tape or should we wait and do it in court if it gets that far

[Spiceskull]

Regarding your larger claim:

 

There can be problems if your claim is above £5K, so shaving a month or two off may well be a good option. However, if you have to reduce your claim by more than six months it may be worth making a claim for an earlier period first, waiting for it to settle and then bringing another claim later.

 

You could also do a search for the word "sever" in the forums, and read up on this. You need to be advised to not run the claims at the same time to avoid the risk of consolidation by the bank. A good thread is this one: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...read.php?t=651

 

Good luck, and keep us posted.

[Empire Strikes Back]

Sorry Spiceskull, this isnt the larger claim that we discussed earlier in the thread, this is a smaller one for £4k against Lloyds for another of our accounts that I need the help with.

[Spiceskull]

That's okay - reading the thread from the beginning it wasn't clear to me whether the larger claim had started or not...

[Empire Strikes Back]

Have been reading through the faqs but cant find if anyone sent their spreadsheets with their court claim. Have had a letter from Lloyds solicitors asking for details of the individual charges, should I send them a copy of the spreadsheet, they are saying they are unable to respond fully to the claim because of this, dont want to get as far as court and have them say we have witheld information asked for.

[Empire Strikes Back]

Received letter from bank's solicitors today Martineau Johnson - containing an offer to "make a contribution" etc, and a Defence.

 

One thing in the defence bothers us, that is "The Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1997, and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations only relate to those contracting as consumers, and so do not apply to you as a business customer. s15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act onlly applies where there is an implied term as to the consideration; it is not relevant where, as in this case, there are specific terms concerning those charges, as set out in the Bank's charging leaflet."

 

Anyone else throw any light on this. We know we put 1977 and 1997.

[Empire Strikes Back]

Hi

Have been paid out by Lloyds for the smaller of our two claims for just under 5k + interest. We had the usual offer letter from MJ with conditions,we wrote and told her we would not accept a shut your mouth clause and we didnt want the money put straight into our account we wanted it by cheque. The reason for this was the account we had got the charges back from was closed about 4 years ago and the live account which they wanted to transfer the money into was carrying an overdraft of 16.5k all of which and more is made up of penalty charges,(and is the subject of another claim) anyway MJ carried out and willy nilly paid the settlement figure into our Account against our instructions. We then told her that we would be continuing the case as she hadnt stuck to our instructions and we wanted the money removed from that account and sent to us by cheque. We have now received this from the court:-

 

"Upon considering the allocation questionnaires filed

IT IS ORDERED THAT

The claim be allocated to the Fast Track

The parties must give to any other party standard disclosure by lists with a disclosure statement by. 4.OOpm on 17 July 2006

Requests For inspection or copies of documents must be made by 4.OOpm on 24t' July 2006 and any such request must be complied with within 7 days of receipt

The parties must by 28th August 2006 exchange with all other parties the written statements of all witnesses upon whom they intend to rely at trial

No further evidence to be produced without permission of the Trial Judge. Permission to the parties to rely on oral evidence only of those witnesses whose statements have been served.

Pre trial checklists to be filed by 6t' November 2006 with a separate statement of the up to date time estimate for the trial, which shall include time for reading the trial bundle and judgment

List for hearing before the Circuit Judge/ Recorder/District Judge during the trial window of 3 weeks commencing 25th December 2006 allowing a half day to include a half a hour reading time

The Claimant do not less than 7 days before trial file the following documents agreed if possible:

A case summary in not more than 500 words to include a report as to any areas of agreement"

 

Anyone come across one of these and anyone got any help and advise with dealing with it.

[meagain]

Oh dear. Unless I'm mistaken, I'd imagine that means you're off Small Claims, which means the bank might start making threats regarding costs, etc. Of course, that's entirely moot should you win, but be aware that the bar has now been raised considerably. To borrow some poker terms, since the bank knows its cards are worthless, their best hope is to bluff and hope they can raise you out of the hand. Of course, if you were on Small Claims track, the most you stand to lose is court fees already paid (£220 - I would imagine defendants don't have to pay to go to court), meaning going all-in to call their bluff would be rather less risky.

 

Of course, should you win your case (if you are headstrong, there's no reason why legally you shouldn't), being off the Small Claims track you might be entitled to claim additional costs (such as any and all of your time in pursuing this case, and any representation you may take on).

 

Do remember that all of this only applies if you really are off the Small Claims track for good.

[barracad]

The parties must give to any other party standard disclosure by lists with a disclosure statement

 

This basically means game over for the bank - Standard disclosure would mean they would have to say how much their actual costs are, which they won't be willing to do, so I would be expecting full settlement soon.

 

Either way it's great news - either they settle in full, or it goes to court, they have to prove their costs, then they lose and also everybody knows how much their costs are.

 

However, I will seek clarification on how you should reply to this to ensure it is spot on.

[BankFodder]

I think that you can be pretty sure that the bank will cave in. However, you need to be prepared as if it is going to go all the way.

 

Your message isn't very clear.

 

How much is the claim for, how much is the amount left to be claimed, do you have a copy of your AQ? Are you saying that the bank settled your claim but simply didn't pay it into the right place?

 

Certainly, getting standard disclosure is a result and the fast track isn't the end of the world as although there is a costs risk, it is limited to £750 appearance fees and I suppose some preparation - assuming that the judge will actually make the order against you - and of course, assuming that you lose.

 

If the bank actually decides to comply with the standard disclosure order, I am sure thatthey will do it in the most unhelpful way.

I am quite sure that we will have to examin very carefully what they disclose, understand what it is that they have failed to disclose and that we will have to challenge their disclosure repeatedly.

Believe me, the dislcoure game is really a game.

Luckily we have some good help and we will be able to examin any accounting information they give us forensically.

[Empire Strikes Back]

Hi

Sorry if my message was not very clear I'll give it another go

This claim was for an account (Account 1)which we closed a couple of years ago.

When MJ wrote their conditions of settlement for No 1 we told them we wouldnt accept the amount being claimed being paid into our other account (Account 2)which is still up and running, we would only accept payment by cheque or Bankers Draft

We then received full settlement of this claim for Account No 1 of just under £5k plus costs by payment into our account(2), after we had told them we wouldnt accept payment this way.

We didnt want it paid into account No 2 as it had a 16.5k overdraft on it,which was on the limit and Lloyds obviously wouldnt let us withdraw the settlement amount they had paid into that account . We knew if they paid it into account 2 it would just lower the overdraft which we did not want to happen as we have already started another claim for account 2 as it is carrying charges of 15k plus costs which is going to be more than the 16.5k owing

Lloyds are now closing No 2 account and the overdraft facility has been withdrawn and set to Nil, I think is why they carried regardless and paid the settlement figure into this account, obviously to get some of their money back by in effect paying themselves!. We had written to them on numerous occasions saying that this overdraft is made up entirely of unlawful penalty charges, they have ignored us so we have started the claim for this and consequential losses(which is the subject of our other thread).

I have also carried on with the Court Claim for No 1 account as although it has been settled in full Lloyds did not adhere to "our terms" for payment.

Hope this makes a bit more sense its really hard to explain in writing.

[Empire Strikes Back]

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