Citicards CCA request - Does not apply to Citicards!!

[stroke a badger]

Ok I'm Confused.

 

Citicards have replied to my CCA request stating that "section 78 of the CCA 1974 does not require CitiFinancial to provide a copy of the executed agreement" as it only requires CitiFinancial to provide a "copy of the executed agreement as defined by the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

They also state that " The obligation to provide the account holder with that document is fulfilled by the provision of the terms and conditions, which are supplied to customers upon reissue of their card, being printed on the card carrier." A nine page document was attached to the letter detailing Interest rates and TC's which does not fulfill my request for a duplicate of the signed CCA.

 

DO I wait the 12+2 days then issue a Non compliance letter, or are Citi exempt.

 

Any pointers/thoughts to help a simpleton would be greatly appreciated.

[gizmo111]

What are you hoping to acheive by getting a copy of the CCA?

[stroke a badger]

I want to check a couple of points on the Credit Agreement, one of which is whether or not I agreed to "PPI". My main motive is to get 13 random PPI payments refunded which are clearly shown as "PPI" on my statements but according to Citi this bolt on extra is under my account profile.

 

Long story short. I used the card for about 12 months taking it up to credit limit, then paid it off and forgot about it. I moved bank and as I wasn't at the time using the card and there was not a outstanding balance I didn't see changing the DD a priority. Much to my stupidity I admit to not canceling the card.

 

Nine months later I received a "sharp" phonecall from Citi collections demanding a on the spot payment of £170 or my first born would be taken to the slaughter. It transpired that PPI had been added to my account 6 weeks after the balance had been paid off in full and had been charged monthly until it was discovered. Citicards approach to my complaint was "If you can prove wrong doing we might look into it"

 

I had to pay the balance totaling £380 including late payment fees for a service I never requested, and as such my motive In requesting a copy of the CCA is to prove to Citicards that my account had been administered incorrectly.

[gizmo111]

Have you sent them a full SAR with the £10?

Who has replied to you.

[stroke a badger]

Morning Gizmo.

 

I was lucky and didn't need to send out a SAR as I had access to all of my statements online. I successfully claimed back all of the Late payment charges which was surprising easy, In fact a bit too easy. I had the usual hate mail but after issuing the LBA they rolled over and credited my account.

 

Going by the signature, the letter was signed by Juliet Wabum on behalf of Richard Cooke who is the Data Protection Officer.

 

I like a challenge!!

[stroke a badger]

Any thoughts guys?

[miss muppet]

Yes indeed Stroke a badger, my OH has had the same letter to-day with exactly the same wording. Any template letters to infuriate dear Brian, copy of T&C's is not our idea of the original contract!! Unlike you they did not refund any penalties and we haven't gone down this route yet however it would seem that without a copy of an original agreement any allegations are unprovable and unenforcable!

[stroke a badger]

Citicards are point blankly refusing to send a copy of the CCA and have stated that If I take any additional action outside of their complaints process I will be in breach of contract and will be dealt with appropriately!!

 

All I want is a copy of the CCA, PPI to be removed from my account and a refund of PPI charges which they are refusing to do as section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act does not apply to them.

 

To be honest, the more they play hardball the more I want to take it further this is now more about non-compliance than money.

[manindebt]

Quickest way to resolve this would be to send in an SAR, their reply should then include a copy of the original agreement which will tell you if PPI was requested.

 

Or you could just email Brian direct, think this might help quite a few of you as you find him replying to your letters so slowly.

[manindebt]

I forgot to add that having had a few friedly chats with a few people there (which ive used to my advantage to glean information) they normally archive information with Iron Mountain (a data archiving firm) and so if they have archived copy applications then this would be the reason for any delays as they have to get the paperwork back and often there is no guarantee that they still have the original, therefore i would send of the S.A.R request and if they do not include a copy application when they respond then ask for it as this falls within the remit of them sending you all data they hold on you, if its missing or misplaced then ask for the PPI to be removed.

[stroke a badger]

The plot thickens..........

 

I received this morning, a letter from our buddy, Brian Smith regarding my request for a true copy of the CCA. He starts off by "regretting" to inform me that section 78 of the CCA act of 1974 does not require his client to provide a copy of the executed agreement as I appear to believe. What It does require is for his client to provide a "copy of the executed agreement" as defined by the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

It is also mentioned that the "Obligation to provide me with that document is fulfilled by the provision of a card carrier which is an Industry standard.

 

A couple of other statements that made me laugh.

 

"I note you claim the account is in "dispute" and "forbid" any passing of data to third parties. With all due respect, you are not entitled, whilst you owe money to my client to forbid any such thing and the dispute is simply a manufacture of your own"

 

Also -

 

"Unless and until you pay the debt due my client is entitled to report your behavior to the credit bureau and to sell your debt to any third party it chooses. The DPA does not exist so that people can evade their creditors as you appear to believe. In the event that you fail to make payments then my client shall take whatever actions it deems appropriate commensurate with common law and the agreement".

 

I don't understand why Citicards are refusing to provide me with a copy of the CCA, thats or course if it still exists that is...

[gizmo111]

What he is saying is correct - however to enforce the debt through the court they would have to produce the correct agreeement.

Are you claiming back charges from them?

[stroke a badger]

All of the penalty charges have been repaid by Citi, apart from the PPI premiums which started to appear after the account was paid off. The only reason why I want the CCA is so that I can prove that at no point did I request PPI and it was added to my account with out my consent.

 

I think my next course of action will be to lodge a formal complaint with F.O.S or anybody who will listen

[stroke a badger]

Quick Update.

Citicards have threatened to close my account (Fine by me as I don't owe them any money!) and If I complain to FOS or consider legal action I will be liable for their legal costs. They have also said that If my account were to be closed then I would be unable to take pursue my request for a signed copy of the credit agreement any further.

 

I understand that once a account is closed the Creditor is not obliged to provide a copy of the Credit agreement, however surely they have to for fill their obligation under the CCA if the request is made prior to this. Am I correct in thinking this?

 

All I want is a copy of my Credit Agreement so I can prove that I didn't request PPI, It's not rocket science!!

 

Well my Complaint form is ready and just needs to be posted to FOS, lets see what happens next...........

[gill5blue]

Hi,

I am dealing with citi at the moment and they seem to ignore letters and waste time.

Ithink you should go ahead, I am at the moment playing pingpong with cca request and they refuse to send me one

I have gone for no acknowledgement of debt- i owe about £3000.00, but I think it will have to go to court before they admit they have no CCA

good luck

[gill5blue]

How are you getting on?

Ive reported citicards to oft fos fsa and info commissioner and trading standards- that should make them sit up and listen

[stroke a badger]

I received notification from FOS that they have written to Citicard insisting that they send a signed copy of the CCA with in four weeks-I'm not holding my breath!

 

If they fail to produce a signed copy then i suppose the next step would be litigation.

[gill5blue]

ok

thankyou

[donnodon]

Hi everyone

This is donnodon v citifinancial europe plc

I am new to your group and are trying to check if "citi" have been known to have over egged the interest charges in the last twelve months as my account on interest charges has been hiked up in my view, for purchases only, from Nov 2006 at 1.829% monthly to June 2007, purchases only, to 1.995% monthly and again in August, purchases only, to 2.495% monthly untill close of the account yesterday on the 20th of November 2007.

There was an average present balance per month over ten months of the twelve months period of say £2,500.00 with a monthly repayment of just over their minimum payment requirement paid for ten months for use of their money for which they have wrestled from me the sum of £469.79 in total interest for purchases only.

The present balance is nil and the account has been closed by me due to their unfairness with the interest rates.

I have been their customer since the year 2000 and when I challenged them over the interest payments recently, one person was willing to concede on future interest charges but not on the past interest charges.

Can anybody comment please?

Any contributions would be very welcome!

Many thanks

[Enron]

Best to start your own thread.

 

On the subject of interest charges, unfortunately I don't think you will have much luck.

 

From memory the rise to 19.9% was sent to customers in writing, so it's likely that any other increase would have been also.

 

If you have not received written notification of the rise then I think you could probably challenge it - albeit this would be new territory for me.

[stroke a badger]

Citicard have after 8 months, complied with my CCA request (with a little help from the FOS) and what they have sent me would explain why they used the Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents Regulations act as smoke screen.

 

Before I post this little beauty I need figure out why my scanner isn't scanning, but I can give you a hint - Authorisation Form.

[mkandy]

They have only supplied an 'Authorisation Form'? Surely that's unenforceable in court?

[stroke a badger]

[Enron]

Is all the small print legible?

 

There are definately reasons as to why they have taken so long, is the document missing alot of the perscribed content that makes it valid. It should include percentage rates of interest, along with a signature on behalf of Citi which is evidently missing.

[stroke a badger]

No cancellation terms

No APR

No credit limit

No repayment terms

No signature or mark from Citicards

 

I have pretty dam good eyes and the small print is too small to read!

 

It does not answer my original question about PPI being added 12 months after the account was opened.