Lloyds TSB Versus the Lancer

[Lancer]

I have never been more annoyed than I am now after having to deal with Lloyds TSB. I had two business accounts with Lloyds which are closed now. Out of the blue I received two cheques for £50.00. Each letter stated that I had been over charged and was elligible for a refund. I then became curious and started to question if they had made more than the two mistakes they admitted to.

 

After reading and hearing about the unfair Bank charges in the media, I then decided to write the bank asking for statements etc, and received a letter after months of delays saying that as a business customer the Unfair Contracts Terms Acts 1977 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations don't apply and that I would not be considered for a refund or to have my charges cancelled.

 

As a previous business owner can I make a claim and if so how can I go about making my claim, LLOYDS ARE DRIVING ME SPARE

[nicsussex]

Of course you can although the 'terms of engagement' are slightly different - have a look here;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/68191-claiming-business-account-lets.html

[Lancer]

Thanks for your help, I have read through lots of the tthreads but am looking for a Template letter that I can use as a business owner for a LTD company.

[photoman]

Lancer

All the information you need is on this site, and the thread posted by nicsussex is of particular relevance to you.

Regards a Ltd Business, I am not sure if there are any great differences compared to Sole Trader accounts. I think the only main diffrence are:

1/ I read on another thread that the rights we have under SAR do not apply as obviousley to Ltd companies, as you are not a "Subject" or individual. I hope you have all your statements, or you could have a bit of a fight to get them. Logic would presume that for Tax purposes etc anyway, most Ltd companies like yourself keep everything anyway.

2/ when payment is recieved, I think their are slightly diffrent rules regards who it is made to. I think it has to go to the company, rather than an individual. Suggest you read up on this.

 

In short.... read... read....read then read some more.

DO NOT RUSH. THERE IS NO NEED TO, AND YOU WILL ONLY REGRET IT IF YOU DO.

 

Personally, I spent about 2 months reading and posting before even sending my first letter.

read the Business claims thread for a start.

 

Have you read the FAQ's and step by step guide also?

 

First of all read the Frequently asked questions here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

DO READ THE STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS !!!!!!

As you go on, you’ll also find this very helpful:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Once your ready to start , you’ll need to do a schedule of charges to submit to the bank, try this one:

http://www.zen122856.zen.co.uk/CompoundSheet_v1.9.xls

 

Best regards and good luck

 

photoman

[Lancer]

In my letter from Lloyds TSB they told me that as a Business I couldn't claim under the Unfair Terms Act 1977 as this relates to consumers however I found this on the web and believe they made a grave mistake

 

Unfair Terms in Contracts - Unfair Terms in Contracts

The current law on unfair contract terms is unnecessarily complicated and difficult to understand. It is covered by two pieces of legislation: the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. The two laws contain inconsistent and overlapping provisions, using different language and concepts to produce similar but not identical effects.

In 2001, the Department of Trade and Industry asked the Law Commission and Scottish Law Commission to rewrite the law of unfair contract terms as a single regime, in clearer and more accessible language. We were also asked to consider whether the law should do more to protect businesses, particularly small businesses.

On 24 February 2005 (together with the Scottish Law Commission) we published a final report and draft bill. We recommend a single, unified piece of legislation, which preserves the existing level of consumer protection. We also recommend improved protection for the smallest and most vulnerable businesses (employing 9 or fewer staff). A summary is available.

This follows a joint consultation paper, published in 2002.

In July 2006, the Government told us that it accepts our recommendations, subject to a regulatory impact assessment. If the assessment proves favourable, the Department of Trade and Industry will seek an opportunity to introduce appropriate legislation to implement our recommendations as soon as practicable.

[photoman]

Lancer

In short UCTA 1977 does apply to Business'. UTCCR does not. This is the overlap mentioned in your post.

So, you can rely upon UCTA 1977, and they are mistaken if they tell you otherwise.

Regards your post, this relates to legislation that is not as yet effective, but that is of little concern.

Ask them to actually provide you with evidence of where it says in UCTA 1977 that it does not apply to Businesses'?

Expect back a blank piece of paper.

[Lancer]

The Unfair Terms in Contract

Precedent case law

Wilson v Love [1896] 1 QB 6Z6 — A tenant farmer agreed to pay an additional rent of £3 per ton by way of penalty for every ton of hay or straw that he sold off the premises during the last 12 months of the tenancy. The clause was regarded as a penalty because at the time hay was worth five shillings per ton more than straw, and thus the landlord was unjustly enriched to the tune of 5s for each ton of straw sold.

Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. v New Garage and Motor Co. Ltd. [1915] AC 79 — The House of Lords decided that a liquidated damages clause would be considered a penalty and therefore unenforceable where the sum to be paid by the defendant was 'extravagant and unconscionable in amount in comparison with the greatest loss that could conceivably be provided to have followed from the breach.'

Bridge v Campbell Discount Co. Ltd. [1962] AC 600 — A customer bought a car under a hire purchase agreement, paid the initial and first payments and then cancelled the agreement. The company tried to recover large sums specified in the contract for cancelling the agreement, but the court decided these were excessive and constituted a penalty, making them unenforceable.

Murray v Leisureplay (2004) — A former employee of Leisureplay was sacked and attempted to claim three years' salary, as outlined in his contract of employment. The court decided this was excessive and constituted a penalty, therefore he was not entitled to this level of damages.

[TeamD]

Erm....if they have overcharged you then are they not in breach of contract? In which case, fine them and take them to court for their mal/misfeasance and wait for them to rely upon that penalty not being a fair and reasonable pre-estimation of your costs in dealing with their breach of contract as a means of defence.