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EGG, no obligation to provide default notice


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I sent the following letter to egg on 14th April:-

 

'Dear Sir or Madam

 

Account number – xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ref: xxxxxx

After recently obtaining a copy of my credit file from Experian I was concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice against a my name.

 

Further to this I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience.

 

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

 

2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice

 

 

3. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on

 

 

I would request that this data is provided to myself within the next 28 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that it is removed from my files as unsubstantiated.

 

Yours faithfully'

 

 

 

The reason was I never received a default notice in the first place, the reply I just got back was:-

 

 

'Further to your recent request, I have pleasure in enclosing a copy of your signed Credit agreement in accordance with your rights under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I also enclose a copy of your statement.

 

In respect of your request for a copy of the default notice, whilst we are under no obligation to provide a copy of this default notice, I can confirm that the default was registered in accordance with the correct procedure.

 

Egg is under no obligation to provide you with a deed of assignment as our Terms and Conditions state we may sell accounts to third party companies'

 

 

So they send me a statement, which simply shows how much I owe and the minimum payment, a copy of the original agreement and a copy of my direct debit instruction.

 

Now basically from what I can tell, thay are asking me to trust the default notice was done correctly, however they don't have to provide a copy of it, despite my request in the original letter in section 2?

 

What do I do now, wait until the 28 day period is up, or ask them again to send me a signed copy of the default notice, saying they do have to provide me a copy as I never received one in the first place?

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Guest ArthurP

Hi

 

What 28 day period do you mean?

 

If you haven't received a default notice then it shouldn't have been entered, surely?

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Hi

 

What 28 day period do you mean?

 

If you haven't received a default notice then it shouldn't have been entered, surely?

 

I'm simply following the guide to removing a default from my credit file:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/11659-how-get-your-default.html?highlight=default+notice

 

The 28 days is a figure, I presume from when if they haven't given the info you require under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act, the thing is, under this act, do they have to furnish a signed copy of the default notice as requested in

 

'2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice'

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1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

 

2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice

 

 

 

 

A creditor must provide you with the above in order to prove that they have complied fully with the consumer credit act 1974. This includes a correct credit agreement, a full statement of account and any default notice that they have entered against your cr file.

 

If they are unable to show that they have their paperwork in order then you are within your right as a consumer to insist in having this information removed from your credit file and if they refuse, how can they substantiate that they have followed the correct procedures. It is down to you to then complain to the relevant authorities.

 

If the debt has been sold they do not have to provide you with a copy of the deed of assigment but they should include a copy of the letter sent to you informing you that the debt had been passed onto a dca.

 

The timescale for this request is 12 +2 working days = default and a further calander month = offence.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Lan

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent :)

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If they have been able to supply a CCA.... then they have the right to default you. What are you hoping to gain by going after them for not sending you a Default Notice ?

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If they have been able to supply a CCA.... then they have the right to default you. quote]

 

Assuming, of course, that the credit agreement is sound.

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If they have been able to supply a CCA.... then they have the right to default you. What are you hoping to gain by going after them for not sending you a Default Notice ?

 

That isn't the case. If there is anything wrong the default notice then a creditor has absolutely no right to default you! What might constitute an unenforceable default notice will include any of the following:-

Wrong name of debtor, incorrect spelling, no name.

No name of creditor, incorrect spelling.

Wrong address of debtor, incorrect spelling, no address.

Wrong address of creditor, incorrect spelling, no address.

Wrong a/c number, no a/c number.

No date and or the wrong or no prescribed time for compliance with the DN.

An incorrect amount stated to remedy the contractual breach, which for example would include an amount that includes penalty charges.

The specific details of the breach are not explained.

It is not clearly stated that it is a default notice.

These are just some examples, there are others concerning layout and content, just as with credit agreements, so everyone should scrutinise DN's very carefully indeed! I don't think I have seen one DN that has been valid and I've seen plenty! They have all been faulty in some way. Given the serious consequences of being defaulted it is vital that the DN is examined for defects.

In any Court claim as part of a c/c, damages should be sought for unlawful termination of the contract, where it is found to be faulty in some way.

I hope this is useful.

Regards,

Laiste:)

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I forgot to add, if a DN hasn't been received then it is for the creditor to prove it has been sent. I would suggest it is not sufficient for a creditor to simply say it was sent, they need to prove postage. I believe the debtor could use The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regs 1999, to support their position, as simply saying without proof that the DN was sent could be construed as being unfair, particularly given the implications for a debtor who doesn't comply with a DN. How can you comply if you don't receive it? It is entirely unsatisfactory that a creditor is simply able to say they sent it, given their propensity for lying and deception. The CCA 1974 holds creditors to a high degree of accountability in terms of what is to be included in and the form of documents, the Default Notices are no exception!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.:)

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Thanks Laiste that confirms what I thought abought DN's. Does this also then mean that if a creditor is unable to prove that a DN was sent out in the first place we can then insist it is removed from a cr file? Is a copy of the DN sufficient? As I have read elsewhere that if a copy notice can be provided you cannot ask for it to be removed.

 

Lan

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent :)

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Thanks Laiste that confirms what I thought abought DN's. Does this also then mean that if a creditor is unable to prove that a DN was sent out in the first place we can then insist it is removed from a cr file? Is a copy of the DN sufficient? As I have read elsewhere that if a copy notice can be provided you cannot ask for it to be removed.

 

Hi Lan,

 

If the creditor cannot prove that a DN was sent out, insisting that it is removed is likely to be an easier task if you are the subject of legal proceedings and are submitting a counter claim. The problem otherwise is that you are trying to appeal to the creditor's reasonable side, which as everyone knows they don't have! As far as they are concerned if they say it was sent to you, it's tough luck! That is manifestly wrong and unfair, but it is sadly how they operate.

 

Creditors use a template for DN's, so what you will receive, is not a copy of the exact document, but a copy of the information contained within the DN. I personally feel that creditors should retain the exact DN on their files so that an exact copy can be sent upon request, but this is just an argument of mine. For the purposes of getting it removed, the strongest arguments lie within the form & content of said DN and whether it was received or not. If the creditor is unable to prove the DN was sent, you have grounds for removal. Obtaining a copy of the DN only serves the purpose of providing you with the details of what they say was sent. Just because they can provide a copy, which by the way would not be hard for them to cobble together at the moment you ask for it, does not mean by any stretch of the imagination mean that they had a right to terminate the agreement. The point is not whether they can produce a copy, but whether they can prove it was served on you, there is a world of difference between the two!

 

It is vitally important to get them to prove that it was served because when a DN is sent out you have a short period of time in which to remedy the breach, after which the contract is terminated and a default is registered. That is why it is in no way sufficient for a creditor to simply say it was sent given the huge implications for the debtor if he doesn't receive it.

 

If a default has been registered and legal proceedings haven't been instigated then it is important to put the creditor under pressure, threatening legal action and even starting proceedings if necessary to get the DN removed. The cost implications of going through the legal process for the creditor are such that if they believe you are serious in your threats, they may well acquiesce in view of the cost. After all, they just have to inform the CRA's to remove it, no cost involved in that and it's much less hassle!;)

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.:)

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