FACTS ABOUT SOGA and RETAIL CHAINS

[gyzmo]

the buyer may require the seller to-

 

the buyer may... the buyer may

 

not the seller must

 

or the seller chooses.

 

so lets try this again. next knit pick??

 

You obviously took no notice of what I said about selectively quoting from the Act. Read on...

 

48B(3) - the buyer must not require the seller to repair...or...replace the goods if that remedy is.... impossible [or] disproportionate....

 

Its not nitpicking - its correcting extremely poor knowledge of teh Act. Will you PLEASE STOP IT.

[patdavies]

You obviously took no notice of what I said about selectively quoting from the Act. Read on...

 

48B(3) - the buyer must not require the seller to repair...or...replace the goods if that remedy is.... impossible [or] disproportionate....

 

Its not nitpicking - its correcting extremely poor knowledge of teh Act. Will you PLEASE STOP IT.

 

I pointed this out in post #10 - it obviously went straight over his head....

 

I'd still like an answer to my question of where his shop is - so that we can avoid it!

 

Other than that, I given up with this clown.

[patdavies]

If a claim is going to court, then yes, you will cite the company as the defendant. Branches are still the same legal entity as the company (with exceptions, such as Aldi, which has about 20 subsidiaries dealing with different aspects of the company), it is merely an office, a place where the item was bought from that is under the control of the owning company.

 

Don't let the clown mislead you with this one.

 

If you are going to court, you need to serve the papers at the registered office where service is valid/accepted. This may not even be a company office - it is often the company solicitors' office (and before anybody comments, I know that companies like Barclays and DSG will have in-house lawyers)

[Bookworm]

Ahh, Pat, for purpose of serving court papers, a branch is deemed acceptable as part of the company. They just pass it on to HO/solicitors. At the beginning, we used to recommend serving to branch, in fact, so that if you have to send in the bailiffs, it makes things easier. (we don't anymore, but only because there are so many claims going) Also for English Claimants with a Scottish bank, if they have branches in England, it is essential to serve on branch, so that jurisdiction remains in England.

[Guest retailerpointofview]

i am not going to mis-lead anyone to this point. but i will just leave you to think about the facts.

 

if the SOGA contract is with the store then imagine this:

2 years ago you bought your computer from a pcworld store.

last year the store relocated to the next town due to the new site being in close proximety to a motorway junction.

 

this year your computer became faulty due to nothing you caused (meaning is was a proved fault from production)

 

who do you go to?

[jampot]

i am not going to mis-lead anyone to this point. but i will just leave you to think about the facts.

 

if the SOGA contract is with the store then imagine this:

2 years ago you bought your computer from a pcworld store.

last year the store relocated to the next town due to the new site being in close proximety to a motorway junction.

 

this year your computer became faulty due to nothing you caused (meaning is was a proved fault from production)

 

who do you go to?

 

I think, on balance of probabilities, I'd go to you. You seem to know everything there is to know about Operating Systems, printers and computers.

 

Not to mention being a legal expert as well.

[demon_x_slash]

You don't seem to understand this. The store is an extension of the company, a frontpiece, if you like, for the building behind. Company = queen bee, retail stores = drones. All the same entity. One big collective mind, like the Borg, but with less humanity. Speak through the tin can one end, it goes along the string to t'other, attached, symbiotic (parasitic?). If the damned item is faulty, the customer has every right to make their first point of call the store, ANY store, whichever branch they want as long as it's got COMPANY NAME on the sign. Store = company. Do I have to make the font bigger so you can read it? It's a genuine question, here.

[rosiecotton]

ok before you start id just like to note about rosiecotton. ok

 

she admits while working in her TRAINING she...blah blah

this proves to me that she has not gone to university to learn law she done it while working.

also her footnote saying she is not insured in these matters and to seek proper legal advice.

again seek proper legal advice.. so she admitting her advice aint proper!

she has repeatedly told people on here to go straight back to the store in question and they have to by law rectifiy it. which is only true in one man band stores.. not retail chains like theis thread category

 

need i continue on her short comings.

 

I am not going to correct you yet again on your knowledge of the law, I have done so too many times already.

 

However since you have made this personal, I am fully qualified in this field and have worked professionally in civil advice and intervention for over four years. Yes, my livelihood depends on my legal knowledge.

 

The reason I put a disclaimer on my posts is because I am giving advice off my own bat here, independent from my work, and am therefore not covered by my employer's insurance. I am certainly not admitting my advice isn't "proper" as I know I know what I am talking about - I have to, it's my job.

 

I think you'll see the wording is "official" legal advice, as I am not advising here in an official capacity.

[Darren]

When I recently iussued a summons against a large retail chain, the summons was issued to the local store. This was on the advice of my local County Court.

 

Retail,

 

I would trust the advice of my local court over yours every time!

 

You still haven't told us where you got business degree, and if you do have a business degree you should stick to giving advice on business and not points of law.

[Guest retailerpointofview]

However since you have made this personal, I am fully qualified in this field and have worked professionally in civil advice and intervention for over four years.

 

 

qualified?? degree? hnd? gcse? clait maybe?

 

i have been working in retail for 10 years

i know of three judges who have been working for a total of 50 years combined.

 

so you might have read SOGA 50 times. you might have had your training. but without real world experience. means nothing.

 

what most of you are advising consumers to do is speak to a representative of a company who cannot physically deal with it themselves 80% of the time. you advise them to go to the wrong departments. the slowest option and the most inconvenient option too.

 

your and the others advice is to then say "no no no the representatives who cant physically deal with it, take longer and are majorly inconvenient have to deal with it, if not sue them"

 

again it is wrong.

 

the representatives do tell buyers and consumers the fastest, easiest route its free (no chance or having to pay and get reimbursed).. its FREE to get it fixed.

 

if the representative said "fork off or pay me £300" then you still would not have much of a case.

because the store CAN charge you and you can get reimbursed from head office

unless the company (head office) themselves refuses to have nothing to do with it or wont reimburse you..

then you have a case.

 

 

 

imagine this.

 

you are the owner of a shop. you have two members of staff

1)who has no arms but is a great sales person.

2)part time repairer who comes to the customers homes

 

a customer comes in and demands your disabled member of staff to fix it or call the engineer as the customer refuses to call themselves. if your disabled staff member then says ok im sorry i cannot physically do that but as a fast remedy ill tell you the telephone number to my boss(you) as she is out at the moment or the engineer(manufacturer) and they can deal with it sooner do you think its best for the customer to call?

or

be an inconsiderate person and stand there shouting abuse saying "i know my rights"

 

store staff are disabled in their ability to fix pc's as they dont have the authorisation or experience or parts. i am not sure about comet or pcworld but many companies dont have outside lines in their store. (reduces staff personal calls) so they can be disabled in the ability to call outside too

 

do you see my point. call head office FIRST

 

call head office FIRST

[Guest retailerpointofview]

You don't seem to understand this. The store is an extension of the company, a frontpiece, if you like, for the building behind. Company = queen bee, retail stores = drones. All the same entity. One big collective mind, like the Borg, but with less humanity. Speak through the tin can one end, it goes along the string to t'other, attached, symbiotic (parasitic?). If the damned item is faulty, the customer has every right to make their first point of call the store, ANY store, whichever branch they want as long as it's got COMPANY NAME on the sign. Store = company. Do I have to make the font bigger so you can read it? It's a genuine question, here.

 

first point of call, fastest, easiest and cheapest is the telephone number.

 

you dont get your head wet in the rain. dont ware the tread out on your tyres, use oil, harm the environment. you pick up the phone and sit there talking. cup of tea in one hand. nice and comfortable.

 

where are everyones problems with making a phone call

 

i seriously believe you prefer to take a company to court then get it sorted. id just love it if just once the company said "fork it lets follow it through to the end and use it as a presidence "

then all us other retailers couls use it to show you why you should contact the parties that CAN deal with it rather then wasting time with parties that CANT

[Parva]

For christs sake! You buy item from shop, shop is first point of call within the 12 month warranty! Ok, shop moves, your choice then is to either visit another shop in same retail chain or phone head-office. My son bought an Xbox360 from Game in Northampton which went faulty 6 months later and we returned it to Game in Leeds (where we live) and they swopped for a brand new console no questiones asked!

 

Not all stores would be so obliging but I'd always say you take it to the store you bought it from or alternatively a store from the same company that's local and return it to them.

 

Should I phone Primark or New Look Head Office everytime I buy a pair of Jeans in their Northampton store and take them to the Leeds store for a refund or swop?

 

Deal with the store first if it's convenient THEN go the head office route if that fails or is inconvenient. Sheesh.

[Parva]

where are everyones problems with making a phone call

Have you actually sat on the end of the line listening to digital dot telling you to press 1, then 3 etc etc? Far easier just to return it to the store from where it's been bought and the onus is then on the store to repair / replace or whatever remedy they choose.

 

i seriously believe you prefer to take a company to court then get it sorted. id just love it if just once the company said "fork it lets follow it through to the end and use it as a presidence "

then all us other retailers couls use it to show you why you should contact the parties that CAN deal with it rather then wasting time with parties that CANT

So I buy a laptop from PCWorld and it goes faulty in a couple of weeks and I can no longer return it to them as faulty without phoning Head Office? I in no way know nothing of consumer laws that people like Rosie do but you truly are deluded to believe a customer cannot return a faulty product to the store from which it was purchased. Furthermore, it can be returned to stores within the same franchise no matter the location!

 

Good luck with your business degree.

[Guest retailerpointofview]

your SOGA rights are with the company. the store can deal with 20% of problems instore such as XBOX's which never get repaired they just get swapped. and packs of CD's for obvious reasons.

 

 

yes stores are an extension of the company. you can go back to the local store if you want but if your product is any of those 80% of products that cannot be replaced instore then they have to be repaired.

 

id like you to time your next visit near the retail park of your pcworld. you dont have to go in the store. just time your visit.

from the point you put your shoes on to the time you get back from the store. find out your hourly wage and put a monetary value to this time. add approximetly 15 minutes to the time for waiting in queue and then talking to the guy at the desk.

 

then look at your mileometer and work out the petrol used. oil, ware on tyres, carbon footprint and put a monetary value on that. (ok maybe i am going to far but atleast work out the petrol)

 

but imagine using just 45 minutes sitting at home, watching tv, cup of coffee in your hand arranging the courior service. in 80% of cases the store are not able to deal with it. you refusing to deal with the parties which can is your fault and you are only causing yourself stress, having to wait longer etc.

 

some stores dont have external lines to make phone calls to head office.

if they did, the head office or repair center due to data protections act want to deal with the buyer direct and so this would waste further time either getting the repairer to call the customer back later and arranging a courior service to the buyers house next day.

 

rosie did you read their leaflet for that £100 challenge i set you. its simple.

in the first 28days all problems can be replaced or repaired instore same day.

after that call the telephone number on the receipt for the best solution.

 

simple

 

if you lot continue to say demand the store repair it then you are just prefering the consumers waste 30 days with a department that cant deal with it and then however many days after that taking them to court.

 

its like you would also advise the consumers to wait till it is extra busy, wait till there is a massive queue and then go to the guys instore. get all agressive because you have been waiting and then more agressive because they cannot replace it that day. shout out "i know my rights" and think that makes it all better and it will be replaced. NO it still needs to be repaired and you still got to give them reasonable time to allow that repair. they help by reducing the time you have to wait by asking you to deal with it direct.

 

one phone call gets it fixed, the manufacturer does not affect your legal rights. the companies engineers dont afect your legal rights. neither does asking joe acne in the store but he cant repair laptops himself or have the authority to replace while you wait. so goodluck waiting.

 

instead call their head office, its fast and easier

[Bookworm]

i seriously believe you prefer to take a company to court then get it sorted. id just love it if just once the company said "fork it lets follow it through to the end and use it as a presidence "

then all us other retailers couls use it to show you why you should contact the parties that CAN deal with it rather then wasting time with parties that CANT

 

It's called a precedent.

 

And your learned friends judges really might have mentioned to you that a County Court claim does not set precedent. You'd think they'd know this, wouldn't you.

 

And I think the above just conclusively proved where your vested interest lies. Not that there was much doubt in the first place.

[Guest retailerpointofview]

Have you actually sat on the end of the line listening to digital dot telling you to press 1, then 3 etc etc?

i have been in the queue myself presing those same numbers. when i have bought large piece of equipment from pcworld as my supplier does not stock them i have called pcworld head office.

Far easier just to return it to the store from where it's been bought and the onus is then on the store to repair / replace or whatever remedy they choose

45 minutes on the phone at home.

or

20 minute car journey, 20 minutes in a queue and talking to the store staff another 20 minutes to look at it. (if they can while you wait). then 45 while they pass you the phone to call the same head office to arrange the repair. and then 20 minutes to drive back home

or

if they cant inspect it due to lack of time/expereince/ space then they have to book it into their system and call you in 48 hours where the repair center calls you to arrange a pickup time which could have been dealt with athome within 45 minutes not 2 days

[rosiecotton]

qualified?? degree? hnd? gcse? clait maybe?

 

i have been working in retail for 10 years

i know of three judges who have been working for a total of 50 years combined.

 

so you might have read SOGA 50 times. you might have had your training. but without real world experience. means nothing.

 

 

READ what I said. I am qualified in this field. I have specific professional qualifications in consumer civil law.

 

And real world experience - isn't four years (and counting) working in that exact job real world experience? I actually mediate and assist in court cases so I am sure I have seen more than you have.

 

Judges aren't consumer civil law experts. They base their decisions on reading up they have done before the case in front of them, as they have to deal with many varied cases and they can't be a master of all the law that they need to consider. Many have made cock-eyed decisions, too, in my opinion.

 

 

Basically, you are wrong in what you say and it is dangerous allowing you to post on this forum uncorrected.

[StormWarrior]

when i have bought large piece of equipment from pcworld as my supplier does not stock them

 

What was the item?

I ask, as I am interested as to what you exactly do?

What area of retail are you in?

[reidnet]

Perhaps he has one of them stands on the street corner selling Newspapers..lol Well I certainly would not buy anything from a supplier with a major attitude problem like that gentleman..

Ian

 

Woops Sorry Bookie, I Have smacked my own Wrist..lol

 

Ian

[Darren]

It's called a precedent.

 

:

 

Why does someone with a business degree need correcting?

 

btw he still hasn't told us were he got it

[reidnet]

Bought it on Ebay..lol

[Parva]

asking the consumers to contact the head office is wrong??? WTF

Read my reply in the other thread! In short, why should they? You are saying that everyone should go straight to head office to resolve matters. This is simply not the case! Your contract is with the store where you bought the item, end of.

[MrShed]

Dont feed the troll

 

For my tuppence worth, I am not a legal expert in the field by any stretch. By "expert" I mean I know very well the basics, but would not know intricacies and/or complex details. However, you are getting the majority of these very basic fundamentals WRONG. And as for the rather personal attack on rosie, she is a very well respected and helpful member, who is clearly very knowledgeable in the field, as her advise can clearly be backed up time and again by the LAW. Not by other members opinions, yours or anyone elses, but by the LEGAL position - which is the only one that counts. Yours on the other hand, can clearly be shown(and very quickly, with a simple scan of the SOGA) to be wrong on many counts. A forum is open for constructive debate on items which are OPINION or different ways of reading the law. You, on the other hand, are "debating" FACT, not opinion, and are in effect simply saying black is white. I would ask why you do not just admit you are wrong, but it is clear(or at least if not, I am shocked that anyone could be so stupid) even to you that you are wrong - you just clearly enjoy provoking argument.

[Guest retailerpointofview]

Read my reply in the other thread! In short, why should they? You are saying that everyone should go straight to head office to resolve matters. This is simply not the case! Your contract is with the store where you bought the item, end of.

 

the contract is with the company.. if the local store was to shut down you have not lost your rights. yes the store is an extension of the company and so IF they can deal with the issue then yes you can go to them. but if they cannot then you have two options

 

1. allow them to book it in for when they are free to inspect it COULD BE WEEKS. then they call their head office to authorise the remedy.

 

2. go through the head office which can deal with it as that is who the contract is with. and they can deal with it faster due to:

24/7 telephone centre

direct access to repair centres

authority to remedy issues

 

its like you buy something from a company but instead of going to the repair centre you go to the delivery boy. demanding he fixes it. the deliveryboy can take it off your hand and when he is next free to go to the head office he can send it to them. but this can take longer WEEKS.

if this delivery boy shows the court proof that there was no earlier oppertunity to take it to head office and that he offered you a fast solution (call them yourself) and you refused then reasonable time would not have passed as you prefered the delay route by asking the delivery boy to deal with it. This means you dont mind being inconvenienced by waiting and you prefer him to deal with it rather then the faster easier route.

 

verbally abusing the delivery boy or shop staff is zero tolerated and will get you banned.Then that forces you to deal with head office.

 

avoid the hop skip and a jump.. go straight to the jump by calling head ofice first especially if it is over £100 to find out who can deal with it quicker.

 

the stores can book in the faulty goods and just have them laying instore for when they are free to deal with them. by showing proof that they had other repairs/upgrades and services booked into there system before you, shows proof that they had no way of dealing with it sooner. also by you refusing to call head office is allowing them the extra time. so legally they dont have to abide by their own 28day rule as its not law they can take longer as you alllowed them to.

calling the head office who the contract is with saves time and money.. going to a extension that cannot deal with it will delay the repair. and pretty much pee you off by not having your product in your home for weeks.

 

you being without a working product for weeks is your problem as your without it. having it dealt with in days is better. so stop advising people to take the long route. all some of you care about is delay tactics to take retailers to court whether the consumer wins or loses you dont care as you still get paid. i care about my customers so i advise them of the fastest method to get it fixed

 

simply put to all the consumers on here with issues

 

if you want to waste time and not get it fixed go to the store 20% of the time it will be dealt with instore the other 80% goodluck waiting. if you want to get banned from the store and be forced to use head office who your contract is with then use abuse too.

 

or

 

stay home call their head office and get the advice to get it fixed fast. if they can get it fixed/replaced/refunded instore then that phone call generates a ID number which you can use to save further time by

*not having the store staff book the product in

*not calling their head office for authorisation

because that ID shows a log that head office already authorised it.

 

my advice is to save money and time. also head office calls are logged so if any issues arise later where the company takes too long or does not fix it. you can use those logs as evidence against the company. store staff verbal advice is not logged. and is less reliable in court

[Guest retailerpointofview]

You obviously took no notice of what I said about selectively quoting from the Act. Read on...

 

48B(3) - the buyer must not require the seller to repair...or...replace the goods if that remedy is.... impossible [or] disproportionate....

 

Its not nitpicking - its correcting extremely poor knowledge of teh Act. Will you PLEASE STOP IT.

 

so lets change the word require for an easier word for you to understand.

the buyer may ask the seller

the buyer may allow the seller

the buyer may wish the seller

the buyer may want the seller

the buyer may demand the seller

 

so the buyer may require the seller too... but must not require him to .. if its impossible or too costly...

so the buyer has 3 choices but he cannot force the seller an option that is disproportionate in cost compared to other options or impossible..

sounds like its the buyers choice but the seller can disagree if its impossible or there is a cheaper better solution for both parties.

so the buyer has options but he cant force them ... there has to be an agreement,

hang on then BUYER HAS OPTIONS

again THE BUYER has options..

are you sure its not THE SELLER DEMANDS like others suggest