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    • i'd be sending them an sar get all the details and see if his bank has proof of BT cancelling the DD too. then p'haps we can make a complaint......   £800/12 is about £67pcm - thats an expensive deal if this is for BB only and not phone as well & at what speed - i'd expect >70MPS for that deal...was it.?   the issue here is if it is for phone as well BT won't release the line till the debt is cleared if he wanted & should switch - to say vodafone at <£30PCM for the same deal.
    • Am I able to upload it like the earlier ones today? It seems to be easiest way for me to do it on my fone 
    • nothing to do with any warranty or guarantee nor T&C's. and nothing to do with where you kept nor used it.   under the Consumer rights act you are entitled for upto 6yrs to have an item that is fit for purpose.   your item has failed within 6mts so under the CRA it is the retailer responsibility to inspect it and have ONE chance to repair it .. no quibble.   sadly as you purchased the item through paypal with your credit card i don't think you have any rights that way under section 75 of the consumer rights act.   @BankFodder will be around AM to help with how to move you forward possibly by a formal letter but safe to say Sweatband.com are taking you for a fool.
    • It is residential. Not long been self employed, and in between been employed.   Everything was set up by dd. BT even let them upgrade the Internet 2 months ago, but did not refuse on basis bill not paid. No letters, nothing and normally would cut you off after not paying for a month.   Yes they should check outgoings, but young couple, and everything by DD.  They obviously realised they made a mistake by halfing it. Just wanted advice really    I would also like to point out they are very financially aware, he earns good money, just didn't spot it wasn't coming out, nothing alerted him to the fact it wasn't 
    • £800 for one year?? what planet are you on?   i will guess this is residential Broadband not a business A/C?   however i do find it a bit strange that a self employer person does know when or not money is going out of your A/C one month maybe, but to not spot 12mts of not seeing a BB bill smacks of poor financial awareness..    
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies
    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies

What is CPR 16.4 (1)? Help me please :(

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Have you filed an N1 ?? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/681-4-particulars-claim-n1.html


If you have (and i hope you have) then id phone the court and ask them whats going on. A stay is fair enough, but if you dont contact them you will just get pushed further and further down the pile by people who are actually demanding action.


This may also help http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/78216-aqs-stays-strike-out-2.html?highlight=stay

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My God why do I bother?


Just phoned Hitchin county court to find out what was going on and was advised my revised POC have just (7th June) been sent up to the judge. Seeing as I sent them on the 14th May I asked them why it had taken so long to which the hag at the court took particular offence and explained that they had a backlog and were dealing with things in date order. When I asked if she knew how long it would take she said 'No, the judge will look at it when they have time, thanks, bye' and promptly hung up!


I fought the urge to phone back and tell her how atrocious her telephone manner is for fear of jeopordising my case. Looks like i'll just have to wait!



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Yes try not to lose your temper with them - it won't do you any good and its not the courts fault. They're absolutely snowed under, and thats solely the fault of the banks.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!



Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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she said 'No, the judge will look at it when they have time, thanks, bye' and promptly hung up!


Bearing in mind she probably has that exact conversation about 20 times a day, id say you were lucky someone answered the phone !!!


Just forget about it for now, and if you still havent heard anything in 2 weeks id call them back. Also, keep an eye on similar cases filed just before and after yours to give you an idea of how long it takes.




You will get your money, its just a matter of time.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Oh dear, here we go again!


Have just had another letter bac k from the court ordering me to revise my particulars of claim AGAIN!


I quote "The Claimant must amend or substitute the particulars of claim by setting out the case and by including details of the charges complained of, how they are calculated and in what circumstances they were incurred."


Can anybody advise me as to why I have had this returned again? Is my judge just being difficult or am I genuinely missing something here? I have followed all the advice I have been given by you guys (thanks again by the way) but keep getting kncoked back like this.


Ok as I understand I must now go through the list I had printed of the charges from the money saving expert website and amend to to say unauthorised overdraft charge, card missuse charge etc. Can this be done by simply writing the charges on next to the original document by hand as I only have hard copies and would have to draft up a new list otherwise (quite extensive as they are so many charges). I am more than happy to do this if it's what's required as I don't want to screw this up.


Also it says the POC needs to be amended by 'setting out the case' Have I not already done this?


God this is much harder work than I thought it would be! I am far from giving up yet though. Oh and due to the fact I was at Glastonbury last week when the letter came I now only have until Monday 2nd July to sort this out and get it back to the court, GOOD! lol Any input greatly appreciated, cheers guys



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Have you filed an N1 ??? or an N244 to edit your claim ?


There was a template round here somewhere, ask a mod.


Go into/phone your local county court ASAP. Ask them for form N244. You need to fill this in (and pay a non refundable £35 to submit this).


N244 Completion:


Top left hand box:


1. Tick c), without a hearing


Leave the rest blank


Part A:


I JunglistBoi (you should probably use your real name)


(that....) allows an amendment to the above claim in respect of the claim particulars


(because....) the claimant did not adequately particularise his claim in that he did not specify the common law and statutory provisions upon which the claim relies.


Part B:


tick 'evidance in part C' box


Part C:


Something like;


I respectfully request that the court allows an amendment to my particulars of claim. I understand that my original particulars of claim was lacking in detail, and I would like to submit a more detailed version relevant to my claim.


Please find attached to this application my proposed new particulars of claim, as well as a schedule of the amount claimed in respect of penalty charges levied by the defendant.

.................................................. ...........................................

Along with this form, you need to attach this new particulars of claim (edit the parts in bold)...........
















1. The Claimant has an account (ACCOUNT NUMBER) with the Defendant which was opened on or around (DATE)


2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.


3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.


4. The Claimant contends that:


a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.


b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. para. 8 and sch. 2(1)(e), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 s.4 and the common law. Further or alternatively, they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15


5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:


a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £(AMOUNT) and any interest charged thereon;


b) Court costs;


c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.


I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true


Signed: Date:

.................................................. ....................................


Also attach a copy of the list of charges and interest you are claiming for.


Get this to court ASAP. Once this has been accepted by the court, send a copy of the particulars of claim along with a list of charges to the banks solicitors.


Good luck


Everything in BOLD needs to be changed to your details




Date: Charge details: Amount: Interest:

11/05/06 CHG - DD Returned (or whatever) £35 £1.07

18/05/06 CHG - OD limit exceeded £35 £2.55

(make columns, formatting on this forum wont let me do it)

You get the idea.



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  • 3 weeks later...

Congrats on the court date. Here is the nudge letter you can send, to prove you have made an attempt to resolve this without wasting the courts time.





Re: You - v - HSBC

Acc number,

Claim -MCOL Court reference number-, Issued --/--/2007

I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £Nearest whole £ Amount you will settle for (Full amount). I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality.

I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention.

For your records, I enclose another copy of my schedule of charges.

I look forward to hearing from you


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  • 5 weeks later...

As expected I have received a letter from D+G saying they have put a stay on my case. Court date is this Friday the 17th. I know I'll probably have to wait like everybody else but I did hear somewhere that you can appeal against a stay in times of financial hardship.

I sold my car about a month ago to pay off some debts and to avoid slipping under. I now have no car and have to rely on lifts to and from work every day which is 10 miles away. I planned to buy a new car and pay off the remainder of my debts with my charges money.

Would this count as financial hardship? I can't possibly be without a car for up to a year while waiting for the test case to finish. I need to get a car to get to work.

Anybody know if this gives me any leverage in the getting the case heard? If not I am slightly screwed!

Any ideas guys? Thanks

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I know this isnt what you want to hear, but:


12. What happens to those wanting to, or in the process of reclaiming charges while the case is going on?

It will be for the courts to decide in relation to claims made to them.

The Financial Services Authority has issued a 'waiver' from its complaints handling rules. This action means that until the test case is resolved any bank or building society that applies for the waiver will not be required to handle complaints relating to unauthorised overdraft charges.

The UTCCRs law is one factor that the Financial Ombudsman Service must take account of when making its decisions. As this action is expected to provide certainty about the law, the Financial Ombudsman Service has decided not to progress complaints about current account charges until the outcome of the legal action is known.


The Office of Fair Trading: Questions and answers for OFT test case announcement 26 July 2007


The FAQ also says :

We hope to have come to a view on fairness by about the end of the year.

We would then take appropriate steps to enforce our view, including enforcement action if the banks do not voluntarily co-operate.


Its worth a try to get the stay removed, but for once they have a legitimate reason for applying for it.

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Jung did you have to submit anything to the court? and did DG? if they did and have nto served then you can apply of r it to be struck on those grounds along with the Human rights article 6.......


you can dl the N244 form from the hmcs web site or call in and pick it up, might be worth phoning hte court, as this is Mon , mind oyu they applied ofr the stay on mine on the mon and it was the tuesday........


when you apply fo rthe stay to be removed in the first box ask for a hearing.............

rockin all over the world

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Errr, not really sure what you mean Auburn, but here is an N244 template (if you want one). The only thing i can suggest, is to watch other people with similar claims to see what happens to them. I think the banks are using this test case as an excuse not to pay out, because they know as soon as its passed the flood gates will open and they will have to pay everyone, claiming or not.



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rhys I filed mine last week do not need the claim for.............mine was stayed on the 6th aug and the hearing on the 7th. I have been giving ppl the Mor address since and suggesting the write to them complaining.........


I am awaiting a hearing date to have the stay set aside on 2 fronts. was telling Jung to apply for a stay hearing and suggesting the reason for that!

rockin all over the world

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