Balir Oliver & scott

[tiglet]

I have posted this in the halifax section, but as it is also a DCA matter, thought i might also get some advice on this section of the forum:

 

I reclaimed £2,500 of bank charges from Halifax, although the total amount they owed was nearer £3000. I had an overdraft of a little under £600. Signed the agreement which stated 14 days to pay me the cash. 21 days later (today) money is received in my bank account.

 

Because my account was with the ever lovely Blair Oliver & Snot due to the overdraft due to the bank charges, a stop was put on my account which has now been lifted. I was told that when the money went in, I had to go into my branch to collect the money.

 

I attempted to do a bank transfer today rather than go into my account - cutting a long story short, i ended up on the phone to BOS who told me I couldn't have the money as it was being ofset against my loan. Fair enough you might think

 

HOWEVER

 

On 30/01/07, I sent a CCA request for my loan. They never complied. I spoke to them in March and they stated that they were sorry and would send me a copy out. They still haven't replied and I have had no further correspondance about the loan.

 

The utter cretin I spoke to on the phone this afternoon advised me of the following:

 

"They don't have a CCA for the loan and don't have to have one"

 

"They don't have to provide me with a CCA for the loan"

 

"Under section 6.2 of the Banking Act, they can use money to offset the loan quite happily without my consent"

 

"Their T&C's (which she finally admitted the "banking act" was after very strong pushing by me) supercede statute law, although she is not a lawyer"

 

"A team leder will not speak to me as she is very busy and what she was saying was correct"

 

Despite several people denying BOS was part of HBOS, when I asked about their complaints procedure, I was told to ring halifax customer relations. The phone was then hung up on me.

 

So, I am absolutely furious, as you can imagine. The reason I CCA'd them is because I have no copy of the original loan agreement and want to see if PPI was added on. I also want to see what has been paid off.

 

I have decided to take Halifax to court for the money plus interest as i believe they have taken this unlawfully from me and by paying me in 21 days rather than the stated 14, they have broken the agreement, not me. Plus I have not received the funds - they have paid it to a loan account which they are currently defaulted on. Good for them - not my problem, I still want my bank charges back.

 

I know the likelihood of getting the money back they have paid off the loan is small, and to be honest it isn't my biggest conceren - HOWEVER I am so cross at the underhand way the have treated me and the general contemptuous attitude I have experienced from them, I want to know exactly what I need to do to get them in the maximum amount of trouble I legally can for this.

 

It may sound like I'm being petty, but they obviously knew they were going to do this and if they had told me, that would have been fair enough. But hell will freeze over before I let them get away with treating me like this without a fight.

 

Come on CAGers - what do I do?

 

A very Angry Tiglet x

[tooth_fairy]

OK, They do have the right of offset BUT they have defaulted on a CCA request from you and you're right, they obviously knew they were going to do this and really they should have provided your refund of charges in a cheque or by transfer to another bank.

 

When does the 30 days expire from you CCA-ing them? I'd criminally default them as soon as that 30 days hits midnight! (although I don't actually know how), certainly this is something worth pursuing, if they have no CCA and you have no CCA, how on earth would they know they have the right of offsetting.

 

I'd ask them if they have no properly executed CCA, how do they propse to enforce the debt through the courts if the judge asks for a CCA?

[tiglet]

They criminally defaulted on the 17th of March.

 

taht is rather my point - I also spoke to them after this date and told them this, asking for my CCa as I wanted to get it sorted out.

[tooth_fairy]

Of course you do, I would want this sorted too.

 

How did you sign for your loan? Was it on the internet or in the branch?

 

If it was the latter, I'd be inclined to go into a main branch with a pre-arranged appointment with the highest manager available, taking any correspondance I had received with me and also all the requests you have made.

 

Go in, say 'I am trying to sort out my finances, your collections department/team/agency are being deliberately obstructive in this matter and furthermore have commited a criminal offence, to which I have this letter to trading standards and the OFT ready to post after this meeting if I am dissatisfied with your help in the matter at hand'

 

'I urgently need a copy of my CCA, held by Halifax, which is my right under the CCA 1974 and which has been defaulted on'

 

I require this info by 5pm today, I would be grateful of your colletions could fax you an original, properly executed copy which I can collect from you at a negotiated time, otherwise I have no further option but the post these letters and ask OFT & TS to investigate your responsibilities as a lender'

 

I realise this is a bit long winded, I have done this with Natwest, who claimed I had taken a debt consolidation loan, whereas I had actually entered into a CCCS plan and they had merged 2 debts, they had no CCA and this conversation was enough for the Branch Manager to admit this and I am now in the process of recovering £2400 in charges from them which make up the bulk of my debt owed to them.

[tiglet]

Very good idea Tooth fairy - I will call today and see if I acn get an appointment for tuesday.

 

On another note, BOS, having finally admitted taht they are part of HBOS, advised me that to complain I ahd to go through Halifax complaints procedure. Having spken to customer relations, they ahve advised me I need to speak to BOS. Basically, Blair, Oliver & Scott have admitted they don't have a complaints procedure.

 

I remember redaing on here recently that DCA's do have to have a complaints procedure, but can't seem to find the threda. Anyone got any ideas?

[beancounter]

Blair Oliver & Scott are merely Bank of Scotland Retail Collections staff.

[tiglet]

Yup, have discovered taht now - they themselves have denied it on three separate occassions, as have halifax.

[tooth_fairy]

Bank of Scotland (BOS) Now Halifax Bank of Scotland (HBOS)

 

Blair Oliver Scott (BOS) funny how they have the same abbreviations yet they deny any link!

[tiglet]

I know - plus I'd gathered from other people on the forum that they were.

 

That's why I aksed them deliberately if they were part of or ownede by HBOS - two halifax people and one BOS person denied it.

 

Interestingly, though, ad they are technically a separate company with a separate consumer credit license number, they ahve to ahve their own complaints procedure.

 

Naughty! Here I come Mr FSA ...

[Mike220359]

Wooh slow down abit here, you're getting yourself tied up in knots when realliy is they who should be, read my thred here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/56001-mike220359-blair-oliver-scott.html

 

Mike

[tiglet]

Thanks Mike - I'll read through it this weekend - I am so going after Halifax and BOS - they will not know what has hit them!

[gypsumsif]

go on tiglet!!

[tiglet]

You know it girlfriend!

[pford]

Should have seen the letter i got of the Halifax over a CCA request and complaint against Blair Oliver Scott. I like this para the most.

 

Whilst I appreciate your situation we can enforce repayment of this debt under Criminal Justification as spending on the account you have automatically agreed to the terms and conditions of the account and therefore remain liable for the above balance and can be continually pursued as such by our recovery Agents Blair Oliver Scott.

 

Seems it is now a criminal act:-o

[tiglet]

Oh PLEASE tell me you have sent this to the OFT! Blatant breach of 2.4 e of their guidelines:

 

"falsly implying or stating that failure to pay a debt is a criminal offence or taht criminal proceedings will be brought".

 

Please tell me you have.

[pford]

Not yet but soon will be just waiting for a reply to a letter that was sent monday:D

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/21097-help-no-response-copy-7.html#post778967

[gypsumsif]

You know it girlfriend!

 

guess again

[Mike220359]

Should have seen the letter i got of the Halifax over a CCA request and complaint against Blair Oliver Scott. I like this para the most.

 

 

 

Seems it is now a criminal act:-o

 

Criminal law does not come into this at all, except where they have not complied with the legal requirements of statute. Remember that your position until the court comes on board is a civil matter and subject to the law of tort. Regardless of Blair et als standpoint, if they did take the matter to court to try and get the matter established under section 65, and 127, they would not have a leg to stand on without the original document.

 

Mike

[Mike220359]

Should have seen the letter i got of the Halifax over a CCA request and complaint against Blair Oliver Scott. I like this para the most.

 

 

 

Seems it is now a criminal act:-o

 

Actually what I think they are saying here is that "we know we are breaking the law by harassing you or pursuing the debt, but we consider the action to be justified since you have borrowed money on the account" it is a trusted defence in a court, killing in self defence is an extreme but valid illustration of the point.

 

Neverthless, and here is the rub (I take it that they hav efailed to provide you with a cca agreement), they could enforce the debt under section 65 and 127. However, if they cannot proove the debt was lawfully established, all they can claim back is the money that you have borrowed, the principal, they cannot enforce the imposition of interest to the account since that would be 'unlawful enrichment'. So any interest you have paid must reduce the outstanding, debt. You cannot add contractual interest to the paid interest, because by your own admission no contract has been extant but you can claim the 8% under section 69.

 

The same process is applicable to improperley executed agreements.

 

Mike

[pford]

Actually what I think they are saying here is that "we know we are breaking the law by harassing you or pursuing the debt, but we consider the action to be justified since you have borrowed money on the account" it is a trusted defence in a court, killing in self defence is an extreme but valid illustration of the point.

 

Neverthless, and here is the rub (I take it that they hav efailed to provide you with a cca agreement), they could enforce the debt under section 65 and 127. However, if they cannot proove the debt was lawfully established, all they can claim back is the money that you have borrowed, the principal, they cannot enforce the imposition of interest to the account since that would be 'unlawful enrichment'. So any interest you have paid must reduce the outstanding, debt. You cannot add contractual interest to the paid interest, because by your own admission no contract has been extant but you can claim the 8% under section 69.

 

The same process is applicable to improperley executed agreements.

 

Mike

Got this of them today

 

As Advised in my last letter, as you have used the facilities of the account which have amounted to the outstanding balance under the new terms of the Consumer Credit Act section 15 we do not hold any abligation to issue you with a copy of said agreement as the legal timescales for such documents to be held is within the last 6 years, in this case our records are held from 3rd May 2001 until the present day.

 

Since when is the CCA 2006 apply to an account opened in 1998

[tomterm8]

I am no longer welcome on CAG

[pford]

Since April... 2008.

 

Plus, AFAIK the CCA 2006 leaves the Credit Agreement Request requirements untouched.

 

you sure on the 2008 bit it isn't acording to this

 

Schedule 3 — Transitional Provision and Savings of the 2006 Act

 

 

11 The repeal by this Act of—

(a) the words “(subject to subsections (3) and (4))” in subsection (1) of

section 127 of the 1974 Act,

(b) subsections (3) to (5) of that section, and

© the words “or 127(3)” in subsection (3) of section 185 of that Act,

has no effect in relation to improperly-executed agreements made before the commencement of section 15 of this Act.

[tomterm8]

I am no longer welcome on CAG

[tomterm8]

I am no longer welcome on CAG

[Candygirl 06]

does anyone have an address

for Blair, Oliver & Scott, as they have started

harrassing me AGAIN with phone calls.

I had an account at Halifax with an O/D

limit of £150 and because the account

went over the overdraft by 90p the

overdrawn balance is now £600.

They stopped for a while when they agreed

to refund the charges (which they haven't done!)

and now they are chasing me for the balance

Which letter do I need to send ?