Elliejay39 v Abbey (guru needed!!)

[elliejay39]

I know what you mean. i had £215 last month and another £100 due out this month (hence my waiting to file at court to include these!)

Anyway when i got home today there was a really thick envelope from Abbey on the mat. I ripped it open excitedly and sure enough it was a letter apologising for delay and pages & pages of microfiche data... yippee, I got to work with my highlighter and then realised - it was the same info I received from them weeks ago AND I'M STILL MISSING 2004 & 2005 (the period with no apparent unathorised O/D fees) Grrrr:x Another non-compliance tomorrow and letter to Information Commissioners Office at weekend when I have some time.

 

Ellie

[dizzy delilah]

Have now done the same as you - stopped all payments in/out of account. Salary going into new one. Will send letter today along similar lines to yours (hope you don't mind) and this is now getting beyond a joke. Now charges have been slapped on, we're £160 over our o/d :o . I'm not sure they'll be pleased at only getting a token payment though. I can't remember what the minimum payment 'in' is supposed to be a month - I think its £1000. Oh dear...they'll be disappointed then.

[elliejay39]

I don't mind at all Dizzy, hope the letter helps.

 

As of Monday I will be £315 over authorised limit and as far as the minimum in is concerned, I'm relying on the dispute status to get over that one as I cannot afford to repay the £315 in one go and given that their charges outweigh the whole of my overdraft balance I feel justified in arguing the case. Can't wait to file at court although the fee is going to really stretch my budget this month. I filed against Cap one last week and I think I've got the bug!

 

Ellie

[elliejay39]

Hope everyones well...

Thought it was time for an update.

I got the usual 'its taking sone time to investigate your complaint' letter on 20th June. Having rethought my position I then decided to include the apportionment of the overdraft interest they have charged me since 2006(My OD was interest free until then and besides which their spreadsheet & microfiche don't tell me whether or not i paid any before this although I'm sure I must have when I was unauthorised) Anyway the sreadsheet worked out that I have paid over £200 in interest because of charges so i sent an amended LBA and gave them a further 2 weeks from 25th June.

 

In the meantime I settled with Cap 1 (had originally gone for CCI but accepted a lower amount which included charges, ALL purchase interest I ever paid and 8% on top plus court fees) Basically I put the cheque they sent me into the Abbey account and this cleared the unauthorised OD amount so hopefully after July 16th there should be no more charges on there.

 

I am now in the process of filling in the N1 with the intention of filing on 17th after the latest charges and interest are put on account.

[elliejay39]

Had a GOGW letter from Abbey today saying that they have carried out a full investigation and 'although charges were correct - blah blah blah' they are offering me about 25% of what I am asking for. They are paying this amount to collections & recoveries department to reduce my outstanding balance (despite them not cancelling overdraft and despite my recent large deposit although this letter was sent out before the cheque cleared) This is their final response an they will keep file open for 8 weeks in case I'm still not happy etc. Oh well, N1 in as soon as possible then. Should I reject offer or accept as part payment? Does it make a difference either way? In a similar situation with Cap 1 I refused the gesture and told them to remove the credit from my card and they just ignored me and settled after I filed at court.

[Lula]

, I would accept the GOGW as partial settlement and proceed to claim, when you take off the charges, does that cover the whole amount that is with the Debt recovery department? make sure that they dont keep loading charges on otherwise that is another claim to make

[elliejay39]

Thanks Lula,

 

Thats the funny thing though - Its recently gone over the authorised O/D limit (due to me using a parachute account & them then adding on some extra charges) But at no time have they told me my overdraft is cancelled or that its with debt recovery. They've written & told me I'm over my limit so I recently deposited enough to cover the excess (having said that when they added overlimit charge & interest yesterday they took it back into unauthorised!) Theres no way the whole overdraft can be cleared unless I receive full settlement.

 

Ellie

[Lula]

oh they will cancel, never fear about that, my first claim was like yours and in between my filing and settlement, the added on another £160 worth of charges, which was my second claim lol

[elliejay39]

I thought as much

 

Did they default you (I know they shouldn't if its in dispute but it doesn;t always stop them!) How far are you with claim no 2?

[elliejay39]

Lol - just had a quick look - where did claim no 3 come from...?

[Lula]

No, they never defaulted me and number three has come from charges since then and the fact that I got some more statements from them lol

[elliejay39]

I'd considered trying to get earlier statements as I had a really rough period financially in 1996 but having had a read about it looks like they're sticking to their guns in saying they are now 'routinely' destroyed.

Never mind plenty to be getting on with...LoL

[Lula]

i have tried it, I got nowhere, and yes in about 1997 i had a really bad time financially, and would have liked all those charges back too

[elliejay39]

I know I read a bit of your saga. Given the apparent ease that some people got early statements this time last year it must have taken them a while to catch on I think but can't you just see them all now - rushing around the place, checking all their hidey holes and throwing everything they find on a huge bonfire out back before we have the chance to get our grubby mits on our data.

[Lula]

I am still hoping that someone will find a skip full somewhere and we can go and get them for ourselves

[elliejay39]

maybe they'll be like the dead sea scrolls and archeologists will find them in hundreds of years time when they will be revered artefacts of the huge Consumer revolution of the 21st century....

...or maybe not!

[elliejay39]

Quick question if anyones about.

I'm just filling in my N1 form and honestly cannot remember when I opened my account. It could be 11 years it could be 15. Its definitely more than 10 and less than 17 but other than that??? Does it matter if leave out the bit about 'and was opened on or around' from the POC? I wondered if I should change point 1 to:

1. The Claimant has held an account ******** ("the Account") with the Defendant for over 10 years.

I seem to remember that contracts entered into pre-1995 do preclude certain arguments. Am I still OK with UTCCR even if my account was opened pre 1995?

 

Thanks in advance...

[elliejay39]

well following Abbeys GOGW dated 11th july - still no sign of anything hitting my account (which is still open and accesible online) No doubt they are waiting for next round of charges to hit and will maximise the unauthorisedeness of my overdraft before crediting any dosh. Its good news for me anyway as i sent rejection letter off today advising them that i am claiming full amount and I filed N1 with original figure (thought that if it did materialise i can always notify court later or deduct if/when Abbey agree to settle.)

So thats it for now then, the hour apporaches.....

[dizzy delilah]

Hey Ellie! Guess what? Had letter from a Mr John Brettell (amongst other Abbey departments- look at my thread, you'll see what I mean ) yesterday offering a 1/4 of what I'm claiming - checked online banking about 10 minutes ago...and have 14 fee refunds on account! Keep checking online banking - every little helps - whose catchphrase is that anyway? God, its not the Abbey's is it?

Have you got Cap 1 money yet?

[elliejay39]

Yep, that cleared my unauthorised balance for me.

I still haven't had my GOGW credited to my account and its over 2 weeks since they sent letter, they're so random. The letter did say that the amount offered was also to cover charges not yet debited - perhaps i had that many outstanding LoL

 

Anyway found out today that I've got an interview for a new job next week so I'm well excited.

 

Gonna pop over your thread and have a read..

 

Ellie

[srfrench]

Good luck with the interview ellie

[elliejay39]

aww, thanks

[elliejay39]

surprise surprise, a letter from Abbey this morning telling me that my overdraft is up for renewal in September and unfortunatley they won't be renewing it at this time! Its fair enough really since I started having my salary paid into another bank in April.. Its a bit worrying though, considering the likely delay in resolving my charges claim due to the test case.

D'you think I can request a stay on my overdraft repayment pending the result...LoL:D

[elliejay39]

Ok, GOGW finally deposited in early August over 3 weeks after offer and almost 2 weeks after I sent letter rejecting it. Had to dip into it last week which worried me a bit but given that they swiped almost £400 of the Cap 1 settlement in charges etc i felt justified (and anyway no alternative) and also since they are demanding repayment of OD in 2 weeks i may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb....

Had a nice chatty letter informing of blanket stays, telling me to read website for details blah de blah. Then got a letter this morning (its a pretty standard templateI believe) informing me of intention to file for stay and that Open offers stand but acceptance will be seen as full and final settlement. Oh S**t. I definitely rejected it even though they ignored me but thought I ought to reiterate my position. Anyway - who gives them the right to make decisions for the court? have they forgotten who the claimant is her? If the court agrees (eventually) that my unavoidable accessing of money (that was originally taken from me and is still rightfully mine don't forget) means that I am denied the right to the rest of my dues then thats a different fight.

Anyway, heres my two penn'orth (I plan to send a copy o everyone who has written to me over the last few weeks including the person who signed with a squiggle, no name & no title, just the Triton House address and a location code....!)

13th August 2007

Your ref: *****

My ref : Account No: ********

Dear Sir or Madam,

Court claim reference No: ****** Elliejay39 V ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

Thank you for your letter dated 7th August 2007,

 

I note that despite my letter of 24th July 2007 refusing your gesture of goodwill you still deposited an amount of £490 into my account on 1st August 2007. I must stress that this deposit does not constitute my acceptance of this offer as full and final settlement. You should also be aware that prior to this deposit a claim had already been filed with the county courts, and as a subsequence court costs and interest pursuant to S69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, have been added to the original amount. I will, of course, revise the amount in my claim to take this partial settlement into account but I must inform you that I will continue to pursue recovery of the remainder.

As outlined in my earlier correspondence I explained that the charges you have applied to my account are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Further or in the alternative, I believe that your charges are a Penalty and Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79.along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963

I would like to remind you of my letters dated 22nd May and 11th June in which I disputed my indebtedness to you and asked you to observe the OFT code of guidance in freezing further action until the matter is resolved. I am disappointed to note that you have decided both to impose further charges and now demand repayment of my overdraft in full by 1st September 2007, something which is completely impossible due to the pecuniary position I have been forced into by your unlawful debiting of charges.

Had my claim against you taken the usual course this matter would have been resolved in a matter of months, my overdraft cleared and my financial position restored. However I understand that it is your intention to apply for a stay of all cases pending the outcome of the OFT test case, and a likely appeal if the judgement is not in the banks favour. I would like to point out that given your decision to withdraw my overdraft facility, which is entirely the result of these unlawful charges, any delay in proceedings will cause me extreme financial hardship, will cause deprivation to my children, may cause damage to my reputation with Credit reference Agencies and will without doubt lead to further charges and associated interest. This, I believe, is in violation of my human rights and I must therefore inform you that I fully intend to vigorously appeal any stay that is granted in my case.

 

I would also like to stress that any delay will cause further interest to be added to the claim and possibly further court costs so to avoid the addition of these further costs being incurred it is in your best interest to refund in full the revised balance of £**** and court costs of £120 forthwith.

You are also reminded of my request that you supply me with a copy of my original contract and forward a copy of your terms and conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions. These are requested under a CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6©. To date I have not received either and your continued failure to provide them will be brought to the attention of the court should the need arise.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

elliejay39

 

Thoughts, comments?

 

[elliejay39]

Bit of an edit having found the following thanks to KOG on the Halifax Forum...

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/direction_disp.pdf

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Court claim reference No: ******** Elliejay39V ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

 

Thank you for your letter dated 7th August 2007,

 

I note that despite my letter of 24th July 2007 rejecting your gesture of goodwill you still deposited an amount of £490 into my account on 1st August 2007. I must stress that this deposit does not constitute my acceptance of this offer as full and final settlement. You should also be aware that prior to this deposit a claim had already been filed with the county courts, and as a subsequence court costs and interest pursuant to S69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, have been added to the original amount. I will, of course, revise the amount in my claim to take this partial settlement into account but I must inform you that I will continue to pursue recovery of the remainder. I would like to draw your attention to clause 12 item(14) points a) and b) of the FSA Waiver Directions dated 27th July 2007.

 

If the firm attempts to resolve a relevant charges complaint after the date of this direction (other than those described in condition 12(4)):

(a) the firm must not seek agreement from the complainant that the resolution is in full and final settlement of the matter;

(b) in relation to such complaints, if the outcome of the test case produces a result that is more favourable to the complainant, the firm must take all reasonable steps to pay any difference in the amount of compensation actually received by the complainant and that that the complainant would have been entitled if his claim has not been settled by the firm then;

 

 

I would like to remind you of my letters dated 22nd May and 11th June in which I disputed my indebtedness to you and asked you to observe the OFT code of guidance in freezing further action until the matter is resolved. I am disappointed to note that you have decided both to impose further charges and now demand repayment of my overdraft in full by 1st September 2007, something which is completely impossible due to the pecuniary position I have been forced into by your unlawful debiting of charges.

 

Had my claim against you taken the usual course this matter would have been resolved in a matter of months, my overdraft cleared and my financial position restored. However I understand that it is your intention to apply for a stay of all cases pending the outcome of the OFT test case, and a likely appeal if the judgement is not in the banks favour. I would like to point out that given your decision to withdraw my overdraft facility, which is entirely the result of these unlawful charges, any delay in proceedings will cause me extreme financial hardship, will cause deprivation to my children, may cause damage to my reputation with Credit reference Agencies and will without doubt lead to further charges and associated interest. This, I believe, is in violation of my human rights and I must therefore inform you that I fully intend to vigorously appeal any stay that is granted in my case.

 

 

I would also like to stress that any delay will cause further interest to be added to the claim and possibly further court costs so to avoid the addition of these further costs being incurred it is in your best interest to refund in full the revised balance of £****.** and court costs of £120 forthwith.

 

You are also reminded of my request that you supply me with a copy of my original contract and forward a copy of your terms and conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions. These are requested under a CPR Pre-Action Protocol 4.6©. To date I have not received either and your continued failure to provide them will be brought to the attention of the court should the need arise.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Noddy 73 has suggestedthat we alert FSA to the way banks are ignoring their guidance on handling the waiver. Sounds like a plan to me!