Fred Bassett v MBNA

[Fred Bassett]

I am going to send off a CCA request to MBNA tomorrow and have read some of the threads on here with a lot of interest.

 

Everything seems to point to MBNA having something to hide. A couple of years ago, when my financial situation finally exploded in my face, my dealings with MBNA were strange to say the least. They were the most aggressive of all my creditors by far (of those that didn't use a DCA) and they were absolutely DESPERATE to stop me dealing with the matter through the CCCS.

 

I remember one particular series of calls:

 

A very aggressive bloke (Irish) rang me very late in the evening - gone 9pm. I was doing all I could by sorting out everything through the CCCS and I was annoyed, so I told him to **** off. The following day a woman rang me (also Irish) and she was much more conciliatory, but I still wouldn't budge. It turned out that this conversation was being listened in to by another man (Irish too) who did his absolute best to persuade me not to go the CCCS, claiming such things as 'You're a very proud man Mr Bassett, we can sort something out here, they're not acting in your interest' etc. What's the Irish connection here?

 

I felt then that they had something to hide and now I'm certain of it.

 

So tomorrow I'm going to kick off proceedings against MBNA and I'll keep you posted.

 

One question please - Does the non-production of the original credit agreement mean that they can't enforce the entire debt, or does it just apply to the interest and charges?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Fred

[half ax I]

My understanding from other threads is the entire debt. It doesn't wipe out the debt, just means it can't be enforced I think. Not too sure as haven't had to look into this too deeply, but there are some mammoth threads on CCA that might be worth a look.

[Fred Bassett]

Thanks hal fax i,

 

I've been reading through some of the other threads but it's all a bit mind blowing, there's so much on there. I'll keep on though. I just wonder if, ultimately, they will simply be unable to enforce the debt and therefore have to pay people back. Sooner or later somebody will get to the bottom of it, but it's beginning to look like they've messed up in a big way.

[lazybones]

Hi Fred

 

I think you'll find that they can't enforce the debt without taking you to court and getting a ruling from a Judge.

 

As Half Ax I says there a some epic threads on this subject.

 

Good Luck Fred, it seems You and I have been victimised by two of the nastier financial institutions out there.

[Fred Bassett]

Thanks lazybones. This could all get very stressful so it's nice to know that I can come here for some moral support. It's much more than that too, knowing that other people have gone through exactly the same thing as me and have won through is all the encouragement I need.

 

I'm still encouraged by this CCA business, I think it's well worth a £1 postal order just in case the creditor can't produce the proper agreement, so I'll be starting a few more threads along these lines.

 

Have a nice day - don't know where you are in the world but down here in sunny Dorset it's just fabulous (as ever).

[ScarletPimpernel]

What's the Irish connection here?

 

 

 

Perhaps MBNA are learning from Gerry Adams et al, and think that it doesn't matter if they break the law - Tony Bliar will let them get away with it anyway...

 

 

 

Realistically, call centres are big business here in NI and in the Republic, so MBNA may have spread its tentacles over the water.

[Fred Bassett]

Quite. Let's face it, Blair seems quite adept at breaking the law himself, witness that illegal little war in Iraq. He'll be gone soon. Hurrah!

 

Anyway, I did the deed and posted off the CCA request. I await their reply with considerable interest. Unlike some, my agreement has always been with MBNA themselves, not with another bank that was then taken over or with some kind of store card, so I don't know if maybe their record keeping is better in this instance. However, if they were simply doing it wrong it won't make any difference anyway.

 

Ah, how I would love to get one over on them. I'm looking forward to this.

 

Fred

[Fred Bassett]

I want to send my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to MBNA. Having read quite a few of the posts on here, I want to try and pre-empt their more like delaying tactics, so I have modified the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) slightly.

 

Before I send it off, I wonder if somebody could cast a critical eye over it as I don't want to find that I've altered the gist of it. I don't think I have, but it's good to be cautious.

 

Cheers.

 

Fred

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MBNA Europe Bank Ltd

PO Box 1004

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9WW

 

2nd May 2007

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxx

 

Standard template letter

 

In order for you to satisfy yourself as to my identity, I enclose a copy of my driving licence., however, Standard template letter.

 

Please also note that whereas you may not wish to treat this letter as a Subject Access Request, I DO. Feel free however, to return my cheque if that is your wish.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Fred Bassett

[half ax I]

Fred

 

Looks OK to me. A slight variation on the statndard. Also looks pretty much the same as the template letter here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

 

Did you notice the text in Red at the top of the template letter?

[Fred Bassett]

Half ax,

 

No I didn't - the trouble is, I copied onto a blank word document and saved it as my own template.

 

I've edited this out now - thanks for pointing this out.

 

Cheers.

 

Fred

[Fred Bassett]

Well today I received a letter from MBNA in response to my CCA request - quite prompt really, 7 days within the deadline.

 

I don't know whether or not what they've sent me is correct. It appears to be an acceptance form. My details on there are correct at the time I applied for the card which was over 10 years ago. Somebody else appears to have signed across my signature.

 

However, it is almost impossible to read. Could some of you experienced folks cast an eye over it and advise me what I should do next. Here's the link. The blue boxes have been put there by me to protect my identity and personal details.

 

Box.net - Free Online File Storage, Internet File Sharing, RSS Sharing, Access Documents & Files Anywhere, Backup Data, Share Files

 

Cheers.

 

Fred

[Fred Bassett]

I've been through this document very carefully.

 

The most obvious things about it are:

• The heading which states "Acceptance Form"
  
• Section under the heading which states "Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1984"
  
• The fact the most of the document is almost completely illegible.

However, it is possible, just, to make out what the individual boxes are, so here they are:

1. Name and Address
   
2. MBNA Card "I would like the following MBNA Car - Please tick 1 only"
   
3. Personal Details
   
4. Employment Details
   
5. Your Income
   
6. Other (?) - details of other credit agreements
   
7. Security Question
   
8. Additional Cardholder details
   
9. Your Bank details
   
10. Payment Protection Insurance (has Yes or No boxes but neither of them appear to be ticked).
    
11. Principal Carholders Application and Declaration (I think this is what is says). This box was signed by me and it looks like another signature has also been made through it.

• Underneath that is a box entitled "Your right to cancel"
  
• Beneath that is the signature box - within this I can make out the words "This is a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act ......."
  
• Finally there is a heading "Data Prorection Act 1984" and some other words that start with "Any information provided by you ...."

Now, I've been trawling through a lot of threads regarding this subject and my understanding is that they should have provided details of:

• Terms and conditions
  
• Interest rates
  
• Late payment fees

I don't believe that any of these are on here.

 

Everything about this tells me that what they have sent is not a properly executed agreement, but without knowing what one of these looks like I can't tell!

 

HELP!

 

Thanks.

 

Fred

[lazybones]

Hi Fred

 

I an no expert but tihs looks like an application form to me.

 

your best bet is to get "Cornucopia" , "BattleAxe" or "bong" to have a look, they seem to have a lot of experiance in this field

 

As always Good Luck in the fight

[Fred Bassett]

Thanks lazybones. What's the best way of drawing it to their attention? Or should I just wait until one of them happens along?

 

Fred

[lazybones]

You could post on one of their threads asking them to have a look at what you got and include the link to the document

 

MBNA Properly Executed Agreements

 

This is Cornucopia's thread

 

Tried the link thing but didn't work

[Fred Bassett]

Thanks again - I'm actually reading through that one at the moment! it was from this thread that I got the idea to CCA MBNA - they're dodgy sods they really are.

 

Cheers.

 

Fred

[lazybones]

Your welcome

 

Again Good Luck in the Fight

[Fred Bassett]

BTW Lazybones, if you use the 'post reply' button instead of the quick reply, there is a hyperlink icon, so you can copy the address from the email, select the text you want to use as the link, click this button and paste the address in. Hope this helps.

 

Cheers.

 

Fred

[davefirewalker]

Hi fred

 

they have cocked it up!!

 

EVEN if everything else was ok they have signed accross your sig box. This is forbidden. this alone will make the "agreement improperly executed, and maybe unenforceable,

 

1983 agreements regs s)6 (3)b

 

 

Signing of agreement

6.—(l) The terms specified in Column 2 of Schedule 6 to these Regulations in relation to the type of regulated agreement referred to in Column I (and no other terms) are hereby prescribed for the purposes of section 61(l)(a) of the Act (the terms which must be contained in a document if a regulated agreement is not to be improperly executed) and of section 127(3) (the terms which must be contained in a document before any enforcement order can be made under section 65(1), if section 61(l)(a) was not complied with).

 

(2) The lettering of the terms of the agreement included in the document referred to in section 6l(l)(a) of the Act, containing all the prescribed terms of the regulated agreement, and of the information contained in that document for the purpose of conforming to these Regulations shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the colour of the paper.

 

(3) The signature of the said document shall be made in the following manner—

 

(a) by the debtor or hirer, or by or on behalf of the debtor or hirer in the case of a partnership or an unincorporated body of persons, in the space in the document indicated for the purpose, and, subject to sub¬paragraph © below, the date of the signature shall be inserted in the space in the document indicated for the purpose;

 

(b) by the creditor or owner, or by a person on his behalf, outside any signature box in which the debtor or hirer may sign and, subject to sub-paragraph © below, the date of the signature shall be inserted outside any such signature box;

 

© in the case of a regulated agreement which is not a cancellable agreement, the date on which the unexecuted agreement becomes an executed agreement may be inserted in the document and in such a case any other date specified in paragraphs (a) and (b) above need not be inserted; and

 

 

hope this helps

 

Dave

[Fred Bassett]

Dave,

 

Many thanks. This is great news but slightly unexpected because that wasn't one of the things I considered.

 

I'm shattered now, so I'm going to bed shortly, but I'll have another look in the morning.

 

Thanks.

 

Fred

[Fred Bassett]

Dave,

 

I've now had chance to digest what you said in your post - I was shattered last night.

 

It seems that MBNA have made a remarkable blunder. I don't want to give them any wriggle room though, so what else is there about this document that makes it unenforceable?

 

To me it looks like an application form. In addition, there are no Ts&Cs, not interest rate etc. etc. I've read through quite a few of the MBNA posts and in particular I'm re-reading the one entitled MBNA - Properly Executed Agreements.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Fred

[davefirewalker]

Hi fred

 

is this all they sent you?

 

if it is, they havent complied fully

they need to send out the T&C that were current at the time you signed, also a copy of the unexecuted agreement again at the time you signed. dont push them on this until their time limit is up, then have a right go at them

 

but....... as you suspect on your application there are no prescribed terms (apr, repayments, default charges etc)

 

further, is the copy as bad as it looks? if it is s)78 says that the document MUST be easily legible

 

points wrong

 

its an application form

no terms

illegible copy

signed across the box

 

hope you have fun with these cowboys

 

dave

[Fred Bassett]

Dave,

 

Thanks again. Yes, the copy is as bad as it looks - even the box headings are barely legible, let alone the small print within them.

 

If this is all they've got then I'd say they were in a spot of bother. I'll continue to read the thread because I want to get it right. I'm looking forward to this after all the hassle I've had from them over the years.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[davefirewalker]

keep at them.........

 

have a look at my thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/84285-ccas-dave-against-world.html

 

in the first post I have my loan doc posted, I thought I was totally screwed.

 

but in reading the regs over and over, a possible get out appeared

 

the dates !

 

they signed before me, so it changes the nature of the agreement!

 

just waiting for my sar to come back so I can check a few things

 

Dave

[Fred Bassett]

Morning all. I need to send a follow up letter to MBNA regarding their failure to provide me with a properly-executed agreement.

 

I've looked all through the templates library and can't find one. Is their one?, if so, could somebody please point me in the right direction.

 

Many thanks.

 

Fred