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downsouth v Lloyds TSB ** WON **


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Hi there,

 

After reading some truly inspiring cases on here I'm determined to embark upon a claim against LTSB but I have some concerns I need reassuring/advising over first.

 

1. I have been a personal customer for over 20years, most of this time overdrawn and paying charges. I know about the 6-year rule, but isn't there something about only being able to claim on contracts entered into since 1995?

 

2. I have 2 personal accounts with current (authorised) overdrafts running at a total £7k. I am sure my total claim for charges & interest will exceed this, and have read on here that I can possibly include ALL overdraft interest charges as a result. Can anyone fill me in on this?

 

3. I am unable to open another bank account so I am worried they'll immediately call the overdrafts in when I start my claims.

 

4. I run a business, also banks through Lloyds, since 98. Over 100k goes in and out of this account each month. Nowadays profitable and always in credit but I estimate probably a further £10k in charges here. I can't get a business account elsewhere either, mainly because they made me switch my previous business overdraft to a long term loan (because their charges kept making me go over my authorised limit), with mandatory loan insurance too, which is secured on my house.

 

Now we're talking big numbers here, but I can't risk them pulling the accounts. Would they? Or should I get my personal accounts into credit, somehow, first, and then claim.

 

I'm really fired up about all this and wanting to hit 'em hard as that money they took (on top of the legitimate interest they charged) would make one hell of a difference to me, my family and our business.

 

Any assistance or advice mucho appreciated.

 

MODERATED threads merged

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High DownSouth

 

you are in the right place now to get some relay good support and advice, no dought it sounds like you have a good claim against lloyds, may be more so if you can prove you have had to borrow to dig yourself out of the problems caused by excess charges nipping at your income.

 

Some one will soon grab on to you here everyone gets support and a good challenge is rarely missed.

 

BL

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1. The reference to 1995 comes from the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations which applies directly only to contracts which were started since 1995. However the common law principles involved and which were referred to by the OFT have been applicable since the late 1800s. Also the UTCCR only applies to consumer contracts and not to business contracts. This means that you will have to rely substantially upon the common law rules -- but don't worry this causes no difficulty for you at all. Although the UTCCR only apply directly to consumer contracts, it is quite clear that the principles of unfairness which the regulations contain have a general application to all contracts which contain penalty clauses.

The six-year rule refers to the limitation period within which one is entitled to sue on a contract. (In my view, there are arguments to say that the banks knew full well of the illegality of their charges and if this could be argued in the limitation period would fall away anyway.)

For the moment confine yourself to claiming your money which has been taken over the previous six years.

The next thing is that with the kind of figures and the kind of dependence which you appear to have you should plan your claim thoughtfully so that you have strategies in place to protect yourself. Many of the banks can retaliate quite nastily with peremptory account closures and overdraft recalls. We are attempting to deal with some of these matters and as the banks or the solicitors will probably read this post then I would like them to know that we have already received some media interest in respect of these retaliatory measures and I'm sure that when the time is right or when the banks are fully overstepped the mark any will be added to the public scandal which the banks will have to face about this in the not too distant future.

You ask whether you should get your personal accounts and credit somehow. The answer to this is that if you can manage it this will put you in a position where the bank will have difficulty hurting you, other than closing your account. However -- and once again this is a message to the bank, if you have an account that is in order or which has finally been put in order and it is now running satisfactorily, then there is a basis that challenging and account closure -- certainly if it is a personal account.

As a final comment just for the moment, it seems to me that you need to have a think about your position, and work out the way in which you want to approach this. But why you are doing this you clearly have not yet read enough of the forum material and I think that you should do this taking at least four or more days of diligent work. You can regard it as an investment which I think you will find will be repaid in spades when you start to make your claim and when you finally recover your money -- as you most likely will.

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Thanks a lot for the replies so far. Sorry, didn't realise only one thread at a time. I'll now stick to the LTSB alone as this is my main gripe and biggest claim.

My discovery of this site and reading about what you are achieving here has to be honest blown my mind and I will now take time to absorb some more of the case history within this forum.

 

As you say, Bankfodder, I'm in a tricky situation with LTSB and before I embark on any action I need to get at least a personal bank account elsewhere.

 

Is there any harm at this stage in at least writing to them under DPA for my statements to find out how much is involved?

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It is not one thread at a time but one thread for each claim .ie: one in lloyds one in barclays etc .If you have any questions or updates just post it in the relevant thread

When you want to fool the world, tell the truth. :D

Advice & opinions of Janet-M are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any

doubts.

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Thanks:) Got that now!

 

Still wary of even sending off the DPA letter to LTSB about my personal accounts. I'll wait until I've at least got a parachute account opened - will try that this weekend.

 

In the meantime have sent DPA letters + tenners to Egg, RBS & MBNA:)

 

Will start appropriate threads in the correct sections once I've had all my statements through;)

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Parachute personal accounts (2) successfully opened yesterday @Nationwide :D

 

Really want to get that DPA letter off to LTSB now in respect of my personal accounts. I can deal with things IF they close my personal accounts, even if they call in the joint £7k overdraft.

 

Has anyone had their Lloyds account closed whilst suing them?

 

 

The only thing stopping me from claiming my first £5-10k back from LTSB overcharging my personal accounts is my LTSB business account. This has no overdraft, is always in credit and contractually I can't see any reason for them to close it when I embark on the action on my personal accounts. IF they DID close my BUSINESS account (Limited Co) I would be up a certain creek etc. as I cannot open a business parachute account at this time. So its still a concern for me holding me back from even sending the DPA letter in regard to my personal accounts at this stage:sad:

 

Any more thoughts on this?

 

 

 

(Interestingly albiet separately I had my first ever £20 late payment charge on a LTSB credit card statement received on Friday. I phoned them up and they immediately refunded it. Courteously and without even a hint of wrist-slapping. Perhaps they know the writing's on the wall for these hideous charges. I've never even questioned a charge before, yet alone asked for a refund, so this site has already earned me back £20. That's just the start;) )

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The only thing stopping me from claiming my first £5-10k back from LTSB overcharging my personal accounts is my LTSB business account. This has no overdraft, is always in credit and contractually I can't see any reason for them to close it when I embark on the action on my personal accounts. IF they DID close my BUSINESS account (Limited Co) I would be up a certain creek etc. as I cannot open a business parachute account at this time. So its still a concern for me holding me back from even sending the DPA letter in regard to my personal accounts at this stage:sad:

 

Any more thoughts on this?

 

 

As far as I am aware, they cannot legaly close the limited company business account because of a contractual issue with your personal account. The business account is not in your name - it is in the name of a legal entity in itself.

Alan, Derby, UK.

 

 

 

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Sorry, but I cannot deal with your case by PM - please ask questions in your own thread. If you do not get a reply within 48 hours send a PM, with a link to the relevant thread, to any Site Team Member.

 

DO NOT SEND QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR CLAIM TO ADMIN, or our WEBMASTER - YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE A REPLY.

 

Advice given is purely my opinion, and is not based on any legal training.

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:cool: Thanks for the reply alanfromderby. That's what I thought.

 

Looks like I'll be sending the DPA request on my personal accounts very soon then. Whilst I'm doing this all accounts will be operated within terms, as they mostly have been anyway.

 

I will actively look to change business account too; then I'll start on reclaiming the business overcharging - every single charge here (and there are lots) relates to going overdrawn by an hour. Looking on the statements I have never been over my limit as the money going in (CHAPS payments which always land at 4pm) appears before the items going out (which they R/D) :mad:

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My initial claim will be for the last 6 years (That'll be around £5k + £2k for a start) but has anyone dared ask Lloyds in their DPA request for statements going back further? (My account was opened 1986)

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Personal account: Just been charged £30 for being £29 over my limit for half a day again.

 

That's it! DPA request for info back to accounts inception going today, for 2 x personal accounts.

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keep us posted

When you want to fool the world, tell the truth. :D

Advice & opinions of Janet-M are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any

doubts.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Received statements today for both personal accounts (my sole and joint with mrs). Just awaiting June's charges but its looking like £4,000 in charges between the two accounts over the last 6 years.

 

Now, that's well within the small claims court limit, but should I start one claim for both accounts, or a claim for each account?

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HI Downsouth,

 

to save you some time reading hundreds of posts - I have seen advised from within the forum that it's OK to combine both claims into 1 Court action. (I am dong this for 2 personal accounts - one of them does a standing order to the other, goes o/d then I get charges ....)

 

E.I.Addyo

Prelim Letter Sent 12th June 06

LBA Hand Delivered 23rd June 06 - Standard Responses.

Owed £2193.80

Court Questionnaire Completed.

S.C.& M AQ Received..........19th Sept 06

 

Pending Court Date

 

This is MY MONEY - I want it back !

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  • 2 weeks later...

Could be an interesting day today, meeting with bank manager in an hour or so.

 

I've put a very large amount of money (well, it is for me anyway) into my business account, which has now cleared.

 

I phoned my bank manager to get rid of my 7k personal overdrafts (to make way for my claiming my charges which account for half this amount) Surprise surprise he is totally happy for me to stick this amount onto my personal loan.

 

I just have to pop into branch today to sign the paperwork.

 

Fired up by recent successes against LTSB (esp mjanet), after signing my life away again, I'm going to ask him for my charges back, face-to-face :shock:

 

It will be interesting to see/hear his reaction.

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I really am starting to hate this bank.

 

'Yes you can pay off your existing 8.4%apr loan and your overdrafts'

 

Oh goody

 

'at 19.9%apr.'

 

:choke: You what?

 

'thats what the computer allows me to do'

 

But I pay a £15 a month fee for my Platinum account which gives me preferential loan rates?

 

'not any more sir. Its because of all your unpaid items, it's damaged your credit rating with us'

 

Oh really? But I only have unpaid items because of the cumulative effect of your charges. Do you know how much I've paid in charges for these unpaid items in the last 20 years?

 

'no but I expect its quite a lot. They'll all be on your statements'

 

Youre damn tooting. I just so happen to have my last 6 years's statements and you've taken about £4000 in the previous 6 years. And forget your loan; you're just trying to milk me for even more money. I'm going to reclaim all these unlawful account charges plus interest and pay my overdraft off with these instead.

 

I was so angry I just upped and left.

 

:mad:

 

Prelim letter is going out in tomorrow's post.

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  • 3 months later...

Update:

 

Bit of a delay in getting action going (sorting out some business issues)

 

4/10 Send letter asking for charges back, with list, for 2 personal accounts = £3768

 

Received 2 'thank you for your complaint we're dealing with it' letters before

 

23/10 Received their standard 'get lost' letter PP'd Lorna Harvey, Customer Service Recovery Centre Andover

 

31/10 LBA sent giving 'em 14 days (whilst I prepare my court claim;-) ).

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  • 2 months later...

Time to update:

 

13/12/06 Claim filed on N1 at Eastbourne CC for £4608.55 inc statutory interest & the £120 court fee.

 

Defence filed by SC&M quickly and I received copy of this and my AQ for completion & return by 19 Jan.

 

Reading recent reports on this site, it seems one or two have had success in getting a (full) offer at this stage, after contacting SC&M. Well I just 'phoned them to offer their client an opportunity to settle now, before incurring yet more costs. After holding on phone for a minute or two, the guy came back and said 'presently we have no instructions from our client to offer any early settlements'.

 

Oh well, I've got 98p a day interest stacking up, just have to send in my AQ and £100 and wait some more...

 

 

You never know, my court being so local to SC&M, and the amount claimed very near to the £5k SC threshold, they may choose to defend this one:)

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Have you thought about going to the December newsletter and following the link from Bankfodder's text re new advice for filling out AQ's?

 

You will see some suggested directions which you could ask the court to agree to in your AQ. The directions were drafted by a judge and some courts are using them already - essentially they give you and Lloyds 14 days (from date of directions - if agreed) to deal with document exchange or face possible strike out ( i have truly oversimplified it)

 

I feel they are a very powerful tool and wish i had known about them before submitting my own (well my husband's) AQ.

 

Regards

 

Paula

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  • 2 weeks later...

FULL SETTLEMENT OFFER RECEIVED :D

 

That's £4,740.03 inc court costs, offer received at AQ stage after SC&M received my copy, with Gary H's DRAFT ORDER as suggested on the new AQ thread.

 

So that works then:D

 

Just got to rebuff their silly (usual) conditions, get my money back into the account, then another well-earned donation on its way;-)

 

Thanks yet again:-)

 

Next up: Lloyds again, business account:)

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