elisedriver vs HSBC *** WON ***

[elisedriver]

25 March 2007 : Initial Letter sent requesting £ sum

6 April 2007 : Bog standard photocopied acknowledgement letter received from HSBC dated 5/4/07,

17 April 2007 : LBA Sent

 

27 April 2007 : N1 filed at County Court

[lateralus]

excellent! now send a copy of your breakdown to dg (when you receive the acknowledgment)

welcome to the forum.

feel free to ask any questions (i was a member for 3 months before i posted - wasn't sure i knew how, all this techno stuff made me nervous.)

3700 posts later.................

[elisedriver]

9 May (dated 4th May) : received response from HSBC Solicitors stating they will defend

[lateralus]

ok, that's the acknowledgment - so send dg (addy on page 2) a copy of your breakdown and claim number.

[elisedriver]

Just a further update (27/5/2007):

 

The deadline for 28 days after the service date for them to file a defence passed yesterday. Now unfortunately with the bank holiday, the courts office is now shut until Wednesday morning.

 

Following the advice of the clerk of court on Friday evening (When they were finishing and hadn't received any defence and were up to date with all their post ), I have completed the N205A and returned it to the court stating the defendant has not filed a defence. This was hand delivered and put in the courts postbox on the day.

 

Hopefully now the defence has missed their deadline and I can proceed to reclaim my cash by them defaulting

[lateralus]

ok, but here's a heads up - the courts routinely give dg an extra 7 days to file their defence.

so it's worth a try -just don't want you to get too excited.

wait and see what the court says - give dg more time or proceed on a default - you win either way - just the time frame and surprisingly - the default judgment can (not always) take longer than the other route as they can stay and delay for quite a long while. (dg may also just put their hands up and say - ok we forgot about you - here's you money - so many variations on what goes on). so, now you know some more of what may or may not happen. just wanted you to know.

[elisedriver]

Yep

 

HSBC managed to get a defence filed late over the bank holiday - and the court has accepted it.

 

They haven't sent me a copy of it though, so I can't really comment on it's content yet.

[lateralus]

it can take a few days.

[elisedriver]

Well, here it is - shorter than all the other defences I've ever seen

 

1. The Claimant's account is governed by the Defendant's personal and/or business banking terms and conditions.

 

2. Pursuant to the Defendant's terms and conditions the Defendant is entitled to make a charge for its services as set out in the Defendant's price list. including an overdraft review fee for considering whether to provide and providing and overdraft.

 

3. The Defendant denies that the charges applied to the Claimant's account amount to penalties at common law and/or unfair contract terms for the purposes of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (UTCCRs).

 

4. The charges applied to the Claimant's account are reasonable and arc properly and fully disclosed in the Defendant's terms and conditions and published price list. The charges represent the contractually agreed price for the services provided and the UTCCRs are not applicable to them; alternatively, they are not unfair contrary to the UTCCRs. Further, the charges are not default charges and. accordingly, cannot amount to a penalty.

 

5. Save as set out above, each and every allegation made by the Claimant is denied. For the reasons set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

The Defendant believes the matters set out in this Defence to be true. I am duly authorised by the Defendant to sign this Defence on its behalf.

 

FullI Name: Naomi Wharton

Position/Office Held: Litigation Executive, DG Solicitors

Dated this 25th day of May 2007

[elisedriver]

Heres the notification of the Hearing :

DEPUTY DISTRICT JUDGE BEEVERS has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

 

The hearing of the claim will take place at 14:00 on the 10 September 2007 at S****horpe County Court, Crown Buildings. Comforts Avenue. S****horpe. N.Lincs. DN15 6PR and should take no longer than 30 minutes.

 

The court must he informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

 

1. The bank shall provide the claimant with

1.1. Copy staternent for the account(s) in question for the period of six years prior to the issue of this claim.

 

1.2. a summary of the chrges levied during the six year period in question by type ego "unpaid direct debit" (to be copies to the court).

 

1.3. details of the total amount of interest charged during the six year period in question (to be copied to the court ~ ).

 

1.4 copies of all tariffs published for the accounts in question between April 2000 and the issue of the claim (to be copied to the court).

 

This information shall be provided by 5th July 2007

 

2. The defendant bank shall recalculate the accounts in question applying £4 an event (and no more than one charge on event) in place of the sums actually charged. In this recalculation no charge shall be made when the account is within it's credit limit , and the interest shall be reclaculated as appropriate. Once recalculated the defendant shall provide the clairnant with revised

 

2.1. statements

2.2. summary of charges (to be copied to the court).

2.3. interest total (to be copied to the court).

 

This confirmation is to be made availab1e by 12th Ju1y 2007

 

3. Nothing in this order commits the Court to assess the defendant's charges at any particular amount.

 

The Court also Directs:

 

Each party must deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which he intends to rely at the hearing no later than 5th July 2007 (These should include the letter making the claim and reply).

 

The original documents must be brought to the hearing

 

The parties are encouraged to contact each other with a view to trying to settle the case or narrow the issues. However the court must be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

 

No party may rely at the hearing on any report Irom an expert unless express permission has been granted by the court beforehand. Anyone wishing to rely on an expert must write to the court immediately on receipt of this order and seek perrnission. giving an explanation why the assistance of an expert is necessary.

 

The Claimant and Defendant shall file at Court AND serve on the other side their statement and witness statement with their copy documents. Witnesses should attend the hearing.

 

NOTE: Failure to comply' with the directions may result in the case being adjourned and in the party at fault having to pay costs. The parties are encouraged always to try to settle the case by negotiating with each other. The court must be informed immediatelv if the case is settled before hearing.

 

Date: 14 June 2007

 

** update **

 

The Court Bundle is due on the 5th July, but I've managed to get it all compiled already - all 218 pages of it.

 

Just need to print 3 copies off now

[Castlebest]

Hiya Elise, I dont think you will need it but as you have it put together you may as well send it in to DG, its a hell of a nudge and with the recalculation they have to do with s****horpe's (only typed that cuz I love what this website does to the word s****horp ) directions you will get an offer very soon. send it into the court just to keep everything propper too.

 

s****horpe childish I know...

 

pete

[elisedriver]

You wanna know just how satisfying this is....

 

 

And yes - thats the Court and DG Solicitors copies

 

My copy is in a ring folder with the original / master documents in

[freakyleaky]

Very neat! They should pay you out on presentation alone!

 

s****horpe ......... HAHAAAAAAAAAA! It is well funny!

[elisedriver]

Less than 72 hours left for them to file with the court - and out of the blue I get this from HSBC themselves.

 

Noticeably it is / has been :

• Sent to the wrong address
  
• Not via the solicitors
  
• Is for less than 1/2 the claim
  
• Is arguing Overdraft interest - which isn't in the claim anyway

I guess I'll wait the remainder of the time and just go for the full lot - although I will reply to this is decline their offer AND point out they only have 24 hours to meet the instructions of the court.

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

28 June 2007

 

Thank you for your letter dated 25 March 2007 requesting a refund of your bank charges of £2,115 .95 passed during the last 6 years,

In circumstances where you would like us to make a payment from your account that would , if met by us, lead to your account going overdrawn or over an agreed overdraft limit, we have to consider whether to make this payment. A fee is payable for this service provided by the bank, details of which are set out in our published price list. The circumstances in which the

fee will apply are set out in our Personal Banking terms and conditions, which you have already received . If your claim for a refund proceeded to Court, we therefore believe we would successfully resist any legal challenge in relation to these fees .

 

We are, however, mindful of the management time and irrecoverable legal costs that may be incurred in relation to such a claim. For those commercial reasons alone and without any admission of liability whatsoever, we are prepared to make a payment to you for the sum of £1,334.50 in full and final settlement of this matter. This represents our offer in respect of the

charges applied up to and including 8 September 2003.

 

We are not however prepared to refund certain charges for the following reasons:

 

Overdraft Interest

Regarding your request to refund overdraft interest on your account, HSBC's interest rates are well publicised in respect of both formal and informal overdrafts. It is, of course, a condition of your borrowing from us that you will pay interest at the agreed rates on that borrowing. As such we will not be refunding the interest that has been applied to your debt.

 

If you accept this proposal please sign and return the enclosed acceptance form within ten working days and we will arrange for a refund to be made to you. Please allow fourteen days for us to issue you with a cheque. If we do not receive your signed acceptance within this timescale, we will take it that you have declined our offer.

 

I hope that this matter has now been addressed to your satisfaction.

 

However, should this not be the case, the attached guidance sheet explains the next steps available to you.

 

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us.

[Castlebest]

You normaly find that once HSBC Leeds find out you have filed with the court they wont talk to you anymore anyway.

 

pete

[freakyleaky]

YOUR Street

Town

City

Postcode

 

 

 

 

Date

 

BANK NAME

Address

Address

Postcode

Re: Account number XXXXXXXX

 

Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear [named sender or Sirs]

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xx. I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement.

 

You may not have been aware that I commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on XX/XX/XX and I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction.

 

 

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

[signature]

 

 

[print name]

[elisedriver]

Thats pretty much what my letter says -

 

But also grinding the axe a little further by pointing out they've not updated their records with my new address, nor actually looked at what bank charges I have claimed

 

According to the court, DG Solicitors haven't filed anything at all yet

[freakyleaky]

Dg won't file anything. The next time you here from them will be with an offer. Sorry the letter was no good but sounds like your on top of it now.

[pinkduchess]

just caught up with this thread - impressive bundle!!

[lateralus]

i'm sure i'm a bit paranoid after all this - but the letter looks suspiciously like a feeble attempt to scare you off with the bundle looming -

little do they know..................

[elisedriver]

It could be the usual 8 pint Monday evening in the working mens club in the village speaking here.... but...,

 

I think I'll wait for a better offer...

 

The court bundle will be delivered and the fact the DG Solicitors have no chance of filing as per the courts request is leaving me in an euphoric mood ( or is it the Guiness ? )

[elisedriver]

Ok, the bank has missed their deadline to file :

 

1. The bank shall provide the claimant with

1.1. Copy staternent for the account(s) in question for the period of six years prior to the issue of this claim.

 

1.2. a summary of the chrges levied during the six year period in question by type ego "unpaid direct debit" (to be copies to the court).

 

1.3. details of the total amount of interest charged during the six year period in question (to be copied to the court ~ ).

 

1.4 copies of all tariffs published for the accounts in question between April 2000 and the issue of the claim (to be copied to the court).

 

This information shall be provided by 5th July 2007

 

They have also missed :

 

3. Nothing in this order commits the Court to assess the defendant's charges at any particular amount.

 

The Court also Directs:

Each party must deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which he intends to rely at the hearing no later than 5th July 2007 (These should include the letter making the claim and reply).

 

So - other than wait until the hearing in September - what can I do now ????

[Castlebest]

Hiya Elise, Have a look at the following, this is one wot I wrote earlier today ,,,, probably not CAG approved but I belive it should do the job if you edit it to your own claim circumstances. The actual directions I have taken from a set that have been issued by a District Judge in another case, should give you a few ideas even if you scrap the letters present format.

 

Your Judge (name should be on his orders)

xxxxxxxx County Court

Court Address

Court P/Code

 

 

Date

 

Me -v- HSBC Bank PLC

Claim Number: xxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

Further to your letter dated xx/xx/xx confirming your order for a directions hearing to establish the validity of hearing this case as a test case the I wish to respectfully make the following representations to the court in accordance with your second paragraph.

 

I am aware that to date the banks have failed to defend a single case in the courts and that they often use the court process to extend and delay the period of time within which they deal with these matters satisfactorily thus wasting valuable court recourses and the time of the District Judges.

 

I have attempted to resolve this matter many times over the last weeks by writing and telephoning the Defendant but have had absolutely no response to my representations and suggestions.

 

In light of this the I respectfully suggests that special directions maybe made as follows.

 

 

The defence be struck out as an abuse of process.

 

If the defendant seeks to set aside the strike out, the Defendant shall, with its application attach a schedule of all the cases where a similar defence has been filed and where they allowed the claim to go to trial and did not settle giving details of the action number, the court and the date of adjudication by the court.

 

Refer back to the district Judge after 21 days'

 

 

I believe the proposed directions will identify the true intentions of the Defendant and minimise the drain on the Judges valuable time and court resources.

 

I further believe that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence and providing the necessary documentation to substantiate this defence in a courtroom this would have been done many times already. Historically this has not happened.

 

I believe these proposed special directions would dispense with the necessity of allocating court time that will not be utilised and would provide a speedy and cost effective solution to this case.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

My Name

 

 

 

 

pete

[elisedriver]

*** Update ****

 

I've just received an offer to my old address... for the full amount including all costs.

 

They've tagged on a non-disclosure element to the offer, so I'll be arguing to have that removed and then celebrating in style.

 

Leave off the ** WON ** for now.... just until I get the non-disclosure removed.

[lateralus]

no need to argue - just accept it on your terms instead of theirs -

 

 

Date

Dear Whoever

Ref: Your Offer of Settlement

 

Account: xxxxxxxx

Sort Code xx-xx-xx

Claim No: XXXXX in XXXX County Court

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter date xx/xx/xx and your settlement offer of £XXX

 

I accept your offer as full and final settlement only for this claim of bank charges made on my account between xx/xx/xx and xx/xx/xx(dates of first and last charge)

 

I accept this offer without prejudice and I reserve the right to make any further claims should you apply future charges that may be considered unlawful under common law or in violation of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 or Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.

 

I will be willing to withdraw my claim upon receipt of unconditional full settlement of my claim.

 

I am also not prepared to agree to any confidentially clauses you try to impose, unless of course your client wishes to make an offer of due consideration in addition to the amount of £xxxxx, in order to be afforded this privilege by myself.

 

I trust that you will find this arrangement acceptable.

 

Yours Sincerely

you know the drill - don't halt the claim until you receive the money and when you do get the money - let the court know that it has been resolved.

you should be able to smell the money from there!