clarion48 vs Abbey ****WON****

[clarion48]

Hi Gary - just looked at the info on the link you sent me - THANKS! That helps so much - maybe I won't be so freaked out now.

 

I'll take a chill pill and get on with it! Thank you.

[GaryH]

If you look at the front of the bundle there is an index page - keep everything in that order. To be honest as long as its there its not massively crucial.

 

No need for disclosure list or draft directions - you just need everything from the court bundle and a witness statement.

 

Use the second 'pre-estimate' statement of evidence, and just re-title it as a witness statement.

 

Here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57708-draft-order-allocation-questionnaires.html#post482151

 

Get it off to the court to the court and Abbey by the date specified. Remember also to send a rejection letter regarding their offer.

 

OK now?

[GaryH]

Hi Gary - just looked at the info on the link you sent me - THANKS! That helps so much - maybe I won't be so freaked out now.

 

I'll take a chill pill and get on with it! Thank you.

Good. Let me know if you get stuck.

[clarion48]

Gary - just read your message. I have already apologised & changed the thread - I am very freaked out at the thought of going to court. Did not mean to offend.

[clarion48]

Thanks Gary - sorry to be a pain. Had a major wobble when the court letter came this morning - am okay now and will follow your instructions.

 

The offer doesn't relate to the same claim - it is my credit card claim - they will not give me list of transactions/statements as per the SAR and just sent that offer.

[GaryH]

No worries - I posted that before I saw your next post actually! Its been removed now anyway - sorry for the mis-understanding.

 

Get your bundle in on time with your witness statement and you won't be going to court, don't worry about that.

[clarion48]

Thanks Gary - that's all a great help! Well under way now - will post the bundle on Monday - need to get two folders & dividers.

 

Will do the rejection letter tomorrow - that's less urgent.

[clarion48]

Excellent advice given by Gary H - if you need help with your court bundle and like me - didn't know what to do so just panicked......read Gary's threads on the previous page.....everything is there that you need.

 

I'm just about to put my chronological order of correspondence together - I have just about all of the bundle ready for copying and will make a start on that tomorrow ready for posting on Monday.

[kia]

i know hes been brillant with icys bundle as well oh er good luck love xxkia

[clarion48]

Helllllp!!

 

Can anyone tell me - what is the difference between a case summary and a witness statement? - they look one and the same to me!!

 

Do I need to put in a skeleton argument as well as one of the above?

 

And does anyone know how to word the Limitation Act to use in a skeleton argument please?

 

Hope someone can help!

[GaryH]

The short witness statement alongside the case summary is no good - you need something far more substantial.

 

Use the second 'pre-estimate' statement of evidence, and just re-title it as a witness statement.

 

Here - Draft Order for Allocation Questionnaires

Just a witness statement is fine.

 

Not sure about limitations bit, do a search under 'limitations act'.

[clarion48]

Documents attached in support of this statement

• Office of Fair Trading report, April 2006
  
• House of commons early day motion, May 2006
  
• Automated charge notification letter/s. Include a couple of examples. Preferably use ones where charges have been incurred over ridiculously small shortfalls and if possible, include 2 letters notifying of charges incurred on the same day
  
• BBC commission conclusion - BBC NEWS | Business | The Money Programme bank commission
  
• Australian Default charges report, Nicole Rich - http://www.clcv.net.au/downloads/Med...20Report .pdf
  
• Transcript of telephone communication with Lloyds TSB 'personal banking' department.
  
• Data Protection Act Subject Access Request for evidence of manual intervention
  
• Transcript of radio interview with Peter McNamara, former head of personal banking, Lloyds TSB.
  
• All pre-litigation correspondence between the parties

 

Thanks Gary - I did follow your link earlier but have a couple of problems with the supporting documents - then I went off and read some more threads (ICY's in particular), which is a whole different statement and I am now so confused my head is spinning. I'll be lucky to get this done by Thursday.

I have the OFT report; Early Day Motion; BBC Commission Conclusion; Lloyds Transcript.

I don't have the Australian Default Charges Report and have tried searching with google & msn but the links don't seem to be working at the moment.

I don't have any automated charge notification letters at all and my original S.A.R was sent using Martin Lewis's template (I hadn't found my way to CAG then) - so it didn't mention manual intervention.

Also, my defence from Abbey - nos 9 - is different to what everyone else seems to have had.

I have the relevant articles relating to the Limitation Act but am unsure how to word it in my statement (as Abbey mentioned limitation in their defence) - or whether to just put those articles in as extra?

Thanks

[clarion48]

Hi Tricia - how's life treating you?

[GaryH]

What you can't find don't worry - most of what's listed as documents in support are pretty trivial anyway.

 

Just get the witness statement in along with all the important stuff - the basic court bundle, competition commission report, etc.

[clarion48]

okay - thanks Gary - sorry, brain really fried!!

[clarion48]

Assume I need to take out all the bits of the witness statement that refer to articles I don't have - and the bits that refer to automated letters and the SAR?

[Robdblynd]

http://www.consumeraction.org.au/downloads/DL29.pdf

 

Anita, this is the 3 page summary of the Aussie charges issue. You can use this in your bundle. Saves downloading 90 pages just to find the 3 pages you need.

 

I'm fine at mo thank you, how are you?

[clarion48]

Hi Tricia - Thanks for that - really appreciate it. I'm stressed beyond belief at the moment and can see myself just walking away from this.

 

Do you happen to have any of the automated letters Abbey send out? If so, would you scan one and mail it to me please (minus your details of course!)

 

The way I feel right now I certainly won't be chasing any more claims! I've had enough and it's not worth the headache!

 

Have a good day.

[Robdblynd]

Sorry, I don't have any letters, they stopped sending them about 2 months before I started the claim so I haven't any. Mad moment, chucked the lot one day when I was having a clear out. I saw a thread yesterday where someone had some and was prepared to send copies to the poster but I can't find it. I'll have nother look and if I see it I'll get back to you.

 

Please don't feel down, I know it is stressful and at times you feel like walking away but it's YOUR money we're talking about and it was taken without your consent, that's not right. In other circumstances that would be called stealing so please stick with it and reclaim what's yours by right. Think of how it will help you to have that extra cash to sort out other things.

 

You are amongst friends here and we'll all support you every step of the way in all the things you want to sort out, all you have to do is yell and we'll all come running. I know how difficult it can be when your health is not good but if you walk away you're letting them win, it will bea another nail in your rights. Please don't let them get to you.

[KnellyK]

Hi Clarion

 

If you pm me your email address i'll send you the ones I sent to spicester!

[clarion48]

Hi Tricia,

 

Thanks - I do know that really. It's been the most stressful week this last week. With my friend dying, the funeral Friday, which was in Wiltshire - a long way - and on the way back a skip lorry deposited a load of building rubble on the motorway, which kindly smashed my car windscreen.

Saturday the court papers finally arrived, after telling me they had been sent a week before.....and then I'm left with just a couple of days to get everything ready.

 

It seems every thread I read advises something else re the court bundle - some of which I don't have and can't find - and I don't want to look like a T**T in court or take the chance of losing this case. If I can't find the bits I'm missing I need to take out loads of my witness statement that covers those areas.

 

MY HEAD IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE!!!!!!!!! Think I need to just walk away and have a break.....see what I can sort out later.

 

Where's Bonnie these days.....haven't heard from her since last week?

[clarion48]

Thanks KnellyK - you are a GEM!!

[clarion48]

I just pm'd my e-address to you Knelly - thanks so much!

[bonnie0852]

Hi anita, im here!!!!!!! Havent posted on yr thread cos honest 2 god i havent gotta clue what yr on about:(

It scares the hell outta me that im gonna b where u r soon, and god help "my Advisors" on here................ i dont think even their patience will last much longer with me!!!

What i will say tho is DONT U DARE GIVE UP NOW!!!!!! yr nearly there and when it does get u down, walk away for a few hrs (or get on MSN).... unwind Im following u closely so im relying on u 2 give me an insight (espec as we're in the same court)!!!!!

In all..................yr not alone on here!!!!!!

luv u lots

me xxxxxxxxxxx

[clarion48]

Couple of questions to anyone who can help please?

 

Further or in the alternative, even if the said fees are not proportionate to the Defendant's administrative expenses incurred (which is denied), the Claimant remains liable to pay such fees as may be found to be proportionate and the Claimant is not entitled to claim repayment of the full amount of each charge made to the account.

 

Is this near to the paragraph 9 quote on the 'Genuine Pre-Estimate Statement' on GaryH's post #86 - this thread?

The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to claim charges incurred prior to 2001, by reason of the Limitation Act.

 

If I respond to this in my Witness Statement is this okay? The Defendant says that their charges are fair and reasonable and yet the OFT statement has made it clear that this is almost certainly not true. The banks charges are much more than their actual costs and are being concealed. Other than the OFT no-one has had access to evidence and therefore, these facts have been concealed. By falsely stating that their penalties are levied in line with UK Law,the banks are concealing the fact that they are not lawful and that they make profits from them, which is contrary to UK Law. In the case of Sheldon v Outhwaite 1995, Lord Browne-Wilkinson said, ".....if the Defendant....deliberately takes a step to conceal the relevant facts (a step which is by ordinary standards morally unconscionable if not necessarily legally fraudulent) it does not seem to me to be absurd that the plaintiff who has been prevented by the dishonourable conduct of the Defendant from learning of the facts on the basis of which to found his action should be afforded the six year period from the date of discovery of such concealment to bring his action." In Cave vs Robinson 2002, Lord Millet said, "In my opinion, section 32 deprives a defendant of limitation defence in two situations: (1) where he takes active steps to conceal his own breach of duty after he has become aware of it; and (2) where he is guilty of deliberate wrongdoing and conceals or fails to disclose it in circumstances where it is unlikely to be discovered for some time. But it does not deprive a defendant of a limitation defence where he is charged with negligence if, being unaware of his error or that he has failed to take proper care, there has been nothing for him to disclose."

Banks are obliged not to mislead their customers. By concealing the true cost in relation to their charges they are no longer afforded the protection of the Limitation Act 1980 and if concealment has occurred even after the breach in question, the limitation period falls away.

 

(Please note that these quotes are taken from two threads written by BankFodder and can be found at "Claiming Beyond 6yrs" and "Do you have charges going back more than 6yrs")

 

LINKS

 

Limitation: A Summary of the Law

 

http://www.whcg-law.co.uk/docs/whcgdoc040903c.doc

 

Cave v Robinson

 

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk.pa/ld200102/ldjudgmt/jd020425/cave-2.htm

 

 

Okay? or should I leave it out?