April7 V Abbey

[April7]

Silly me, I allowed Abbey to dictate the timescale to resolve my complaint because their letters seemed so genuinely concerned to help. It took them only 8 weeks to send a standard fob off letter, to say their charges do not contravene the UTCCT 1999 or OFT, their charges are for the extra admin work involved,also they are unable to let me have a breakdown of the true cost when calculating each item.

Well, I'm really really really annoyed, Abbey must be having a good old laugh, so I bit the bullet and have issued a claim, sent a copy of the schedule of charges to MCOL and Abbey, all this trouble for less than £500, If I were Abbey I would have coughed up the money a long time ago, now they'll have to pay me interest and court costs. He, who laughs last, laughs the longest.

[adamc6671]

Hi April17 - I've had the same sort of rubbish from Abbey (and others) regarding their charges, extra admin work etc etc, to which I've responded as follows -

 

' . . . .I calculate your costs as follows -

 

a) For automated charges, you could fairly charge me at most 5 seconds of computer time, which could fairly be charged at £120 per hour which cost includes hardware, software, set up, and operating costs. A fair charge would therefore be no more than 20 pence.

 

b) For charges where manual intervention is required, you could fairly charge me at most 5 minutes of a Clerk's time. The Clerk would be employed at approximately £6 per hour. Including 'on-costs' this figure would rise to no more than £10 per hour. You could therefore fairly charge me no more than 83 pence in these cases. . . . . . If you dispute these figures, please supply me with your own detailed calculations . . . .'

I intend to use this in Court Bundles for Abbey, Cap One, & LLoyds, for all of which I'm helping others with claims. Please feel free to use it as well!

 

All the best with your claim - Adam.

 

[April7]

Thanks Adam, I like your style of accounting.

My charges are for an account Abbey closed, it took me 18 months to clear and after all my hard slog they closed the account anyway.

I saw Martin Lewis on GMTV over a year ago, I kept saying I'm gonna do that,but didn't feel confident enough to take on the big boys.

I'm looking forward to Xmas shopping I think.

[KnellyK]

Hi April

 

I think we all felt a bit nervous at first, just stick with it, you set the pace and - if you need to you can get help, advice and inspiration from the vast experience of the people here.

 

Good Luck - although I've been told that Luck has nothing to do with it!

[adamc6671]

Hi April7 - You should have your money well before Christmas, although the beggars do everything they can to put you off!

 

Like you I saw ML a while ago now, which started me off! I'm blessed with a mind that takes fairly easily to matters financial and legal, and he got my interest going. His site seemed to over simplify the issue, but I then found GAG (through a link on ML's site), and started reading (and reading, and reading . . . . ) till I reached the point of feeling I could take 'em on with confidence, which I'm now doing for 3 people I know. If you're interested, the threads are 'Tish vs Abbey', 'Tish vs Cap One', and 'JimmyBoy vs Lloyds'.

 

Stick with your claim, get it right (there's masses of help available here on CAG as I've discovered), and you're almost certain to get back whats rightfully yours. All the very best - Adam.

[givemeback]

Dont feel bad I feel for the same trick with Abbey and like you I am going for it now - also just to make you feel even better they are not the only one trying it so are Woolwich once I sent in my letter claiming back their charges 3000+ they told me they are going to transfer my claim to Barclays to deal with due to the nature of my claim it has been escalated to head office!!!

[April7]

Update. Nothing out of the ordinary happening to my claim.

Abbey have acknowledged and are defending, just waiting for their defence to arrive.

Can anyone tell me please, when should I start preparing the court bundle, there seems to be a lot of ink and paper required and I dont know if my old printer can handle it.

Also, do you think Abbey will drag this on to the court bundle stage for a relatively small amount.

Thanks

April

[adamc6671]

Hi April.

 

From what I've read its never too early to start on the 'bundle'. Although there is always a chance that Abbey will settle before that stage, history seems to say that they normally go virtually all the way before settling, even on smaller claims. Having said that, there have been a few exceptions.

 

Sorry if thats not too helpful, but it seems to be how it is!

 

All the best - Adam.

[April7]

Update: Received Abbey's defence, word for word, identical to " mariejader v Abbey," so I'm not scared of the wording.

I'm waiting for the court to send me their copy of the defence and the AQ. Any updated suggestions or advice as to how to answer section G when it arrives.

Thanks

April.

[adamc6671]

Hi again April

 

I've just filed our AQ at Court, using GaryH's suggestion here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/87766-abbey-abuse-orders-keeping.html

 

Suggest you give that a good read & see what you think - you've nothing to loose!

 

All the best - Adam

[April7]

Thanks Adam, Got the situation in hand. Did you tweak Gary's template and what attachments did you send with the AQ.

I'm getting married in August and every penny counts, dont want to make any mistakes at this stage.

Thanks

April

[adamc6671]

Hi April

 

The only 'tweak' I made to GaryH's wording was to add the words 'on ocaision' before the words 'breached the pre-hearing directions' in the third paragraph of Section 1. My attachments were exactly as GaryH's post.

 

Hope that helps - Adam.

[April7]

Can anyone please clarify I'm preparing for the arrival of the AQ.

For the other info section (G) I'm attaching the Lincoln abuse order.quote,(Please find attached a copy of an order made by LincolnCounty court (attachment 1C) in at least 6 cases similar to my own, in which Abbey Plc were also the Defendant.)

The bank in question was Lloyds TSB. Not Abbey. I'm I missing something, Can I use this abuse order in my AQ even though they are different banks, my brain is dead, help me understand please.

Thanks

April

[adamc6671]

Hi April

 

If you look at GaryH's thread, where the 'Abuse Order' is, you'll find he's changed it now.

 

Cheers - Adam.

[April7]

Hello

Can anyone help, I cant open the archive to view Abbeys T&C for 1998

Could someone please forward them to me. My damn PC needs archiving.

Thanks

April

[adamc6671]

Hi April

 

Just spent 1/2 hour trying to open Abbey's T&C's from 1998, with no joy at all!!! For some reason the 'Wayback Machine' is having probbs, or else my machine is! However try this - its directly to T&C's from 2002 -

 

Abbey National: Personal Banking : Personal Banking conditions

 

Worth bearing in mind April that Abbey DO admit in their standard defence, which is what I recieved, that you HAVE breached your contract with them and therefore incurred charges. Therefore, as I see it, the UTCCR 1999 DO apply, and their charges must be in proportion to their costs. The Lloyds defence, which caused the problems with 'Kevin's' case, does not admit to a 'breach of contract', and refers only to 'service charges'. We don't have the same problem with Abbey as I see it, at least not until Abbey change their defence. Perhaps someone with more legal knowledge that me can confirm this, or otherwise - would be very grateful for that opinion. :? :? :?

 

Not quite as helpful as I would have liked to have been, April, but hope it helps anyway. In addition I'm hoping it won't be long before CAG post details of T&C's - I know they are working very hard on it. Strictly speaking they don't seem vital to an Abbey claim when they put up their current defence, but to include them in the Court bundle can only serve to strengthen the claim, and do everything possible to prevent a Judge drawing the same conclusions as in 'Kevin's' case.

 

All the best - Adam.

[ICY]

Hi April17 - I've had the same sort of rubbish from Abbey (and others) regarding their charges, extra admin work etc etc, to which I've responded as follows -

 

' . . . .I calculate your costs as follows -

 

a) For automated charges, you could fairly charge me at most 5 seconds of computer time, which could fairly be charged at £120 per hour which cost includes hardware, software, set up, and operating costs. A fair charge would therefore be no more than 20 pence.

 

b) For charges where manual intervention is required, you could fairly charge me at most 5 minutes of a Clerk's time. The Clerk would be employed at approximately £6 per hour. Including 'on-costs' this figure would rise to no more than £10 per hour. You could therefore fairly charge me no more than 83 pence in these cases. . . . . . If you dispute these figures, please supply me with your own detailed calculations . . . .'

 

I intend to use this in Court Bundles for Abbey, Cap One, & LLoyds, for all of which I'm helping others with claims. Please feel free to use it as well!

 

All the best with your claim - Adam.

 

 

 

Adam, i hope you dont mind me stealing the above to aid my battle against abbey, very well put together, i had to have a giggle at what i imagined they would say on reading it lol

[adamc6671]

Hi ICY - you're very welcome to use it. I've had no response to it, yet, from using it in my claims though.

 

All the best - Adam

[April7]

Thanks for trying Adam re 1998 T/C.

Well I received today from Northampton the following:

Without hearing. It is ordered that:

The claim is being transferred to my local court,The judge filing of an alloction questionaire be dispenced with in this case etc.

 

Is this the time I send the following to my local court, if so which one?

 

a. Letter to court New strat for AQ.

or

b. The Claimant respectfully requests that an order may be made as follows;

 

1. That the Defence is struck out as an abuse of process, pursuant to rule 3.4(2) (b) of the Civil Procedure Rules.etc.

 

Should I also enclose at this stage, with the above:

 

 

1B) List of settled cases

1C) Text of order made by Lincoln County Court

1D) Mullen -v- Hackney BC (1997)2 A11ER 906

2A) Draft Order for directions

 

Thanks

April.

[adamc6671]

Hi April

 

The transfer, and dispensing with AQ unless Judge at local Court decides otherwise, is perfectly normal I gather when using MCOL. Not having used MCOL myself, I'm not sure about writing to Judge at local Court re. Directions or Striking Out. Hopefully someone that does know can advise you on that one.

 

Did you send a copy of your schedule of charges to MCOL after filing the claim? If not you should send it to the local Court, and the bank, as soon as possible. It is very important that they both have it.

 

All the best - Adam.

[steven4064]

if so which one?

 

 

You can do both - Have you seen http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/87766-abbey-abuse-orders-keeping.html?

 

There is a covering letter here (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-711002.html) you could modify to go with the draft directions.

 

As the AQ has been dispensed with you can write as soon as you like - make sure you quote your claim number. It is the local court not MCOL that handles it from now on.

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

[April7]

Got my court date for September, I presume that the judge did not Strike out the defence and has ignored the Draft Order.

This being the case, I'll get my Court Bundle ready as follows:

Basic court bundle downloaded from site.

OFT report Analysis.

Consumer Law Centre Victoria. Will the 2 page media release do, or do I need the full report.

Transcript of Peter Mc's interview even though he worked for Lloyds.

Early Day Motion

BBC Moneybox

Ulster- All of it or just pages?

Scottish- "

OFT 2006 "

T&C

Have I forgotten anything?

 

April

[adamc6671]

Hi April

 

Don't forget witness statements etc! See here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/57385-examples-witness-statements-disclosure.html

 

All the best, April - Adam.

[April7]

Thanks Adam, the other docs you mentioned are ready to go.

Its just that some of the reports I mentioned in the last post are so long, surely not all the pages are required. A rough calculation, 300 pages, I dont know if you can buy an envelope large or strong enough to handle it.

 

April.

[adamc6671]

Hi April

 

Not been through this myself (yet!) so I'm not sure exactly what you need in the bundle, but I think I've read somewhere that summaries are normally OK. You really need advice from someone more experienced that me, though!

 

All the best - Adam