Moorcroft Intended Litigation -Advice needed please

[robingetz]

I lost my job last year and was unable to pay my monthly credit card bills so I set up agreements to pay a pound a month which all but one agreed to. However one credit card Vanquis refused to accept the offer and now my debt with them has spiralled from £500 to £630 with charges and interest been added for the last 5 months. Now they have sent my account to Moorcroft who are threatening legal action and are adding £165 onto my account making a total of £798. They claim that I am purposely avoiding paying the debt, despite me writing several letters to Vanquis over this period and trying to come to a payment arrangement which they have refused. I know I can claim back these charges but is there anything I can do to avoid all the extra costs being added to what I already owe them, and can I contact the court to explain the situation and that I have been trying to sort something out for months and I consider then to be unreasonable in refusing. Any advice would be appreciated.

[CAGisforME]

Hi Robingetz.

 

Firstly, as Corporal Jones would say "Don't Panic". Read the letter carefully, it's likely just carefully worded empty threats.

 

Go in to the templates and do a "CCA Request" to Moorcroft as soon as possible. This gives them 12 working days to produce your Credit Agreement and a statement of account (giving you a better idea of charges etc). This will determine whether they have an enforceable agreement.

 

One step at a time......

 

IF Moorcroft get that information to you then you will know whether unlawful charges have been added and you can persue the original creditor for those (and moorcroft if necessary).

 

Don't talk to them on the telephone. Tell them you will ONLY deal with them in writing, no matter how insistant they are.

 

Hope that helps for starters...

 

[rory32]

Also robingetz, once you have placed the account into dispute (by sending the CCA request and SAR its now in dispute) they can not legally persue you for it. Any charges that they incur as a DCA can not be added to the debt (whether the account is in dispute or not). You may want to read the sticky on OFT Debt Collection Guidelines - it outlines what they would consider unfair practices.

 

You can if you feel the need contact the court as you have made an offer in line with your ability to pay (the court has a legal and moral obligation to take into account how much you can afford before taking you below a certain level of subsistence).

[rory32]

Meant also to say that CAGisforME is completely right in that you should NEVER talk to these people (I use the term people loosely) on the phone.

[CAGisforME]

Just re-read your post

 

I don't think, at the moment, there is any need to contact the Court, as I don't think the Court would know what you are talking about.

 

Have you had official notice you are being taken to court or just the (unlawful) pseudo Court Claim thingy from the Debt Collectors? I read your post as they has "threatened" to take you to Court, not that they actually ARE.

 

If it would help perhaps you could tell us what the letter actually says (remove personal details) and we can tell you if it really is anything to worry about. I doubt it. I would be suprised if it's anything other than posturing by the DCA.

 

Chin up. Get the CCA and the SAR off and then sit back and see what (if anything) they come up with.

[robingetz]

Many thanks for the advice, much appreciated. Do you have a link to a sample CCA letter I can use. Thanks again

[rory32]

Account number: xxxxx

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

With reference to the above account, I request that you send me a true copy of this credit agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request.

 

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

 

1. True copy of original credit agreement

2. Statement of account

3. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from (bank name) and (DCA name).

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment.

I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

 

Yours faithfully

[ScarletPimpernel]

Moorcroft will reply to a CCA with a template letter stating that they have asked the original creditor to supply the agreement, and some red-herring waffle about court defence and so on. A reply is unnecessary.

 

In my case (and I gather it has been the same for others), Moorcroft ignored the request for a statement of account. Some weeks after they had failed to supply a copy agreement, they wrote to say that they had passed the file back to the original creditor as they had been unable to provide the agreement.

 

I have now begun the formal FOS complaint process on the grounds that they pursued a debt they could not prove existed, and with no copy agreement must also have processed my data without consent. I have included Moorcroft's attempts to avoid a complaint by lying about who is responsible for supplying the copy agreement, and feigned ignorance of the new statutory procedure.

[rory32]

Good for you........hopefully everyone who has dealings with Moorcroft (or fill in the name as appropriate) will do the same. Just off to file my complaint against Link.

[robingetz]

Thanks again for all your help. Letter sent off today. I wait for their relpy. I will let you know how it goes and hopefully this can help others who are having trouble with these "people".

[paddysgoat]

Like most other people this group of thugs are already threatening me after they were so called instructed to act on behalf of abbey. I sent them one of the template letters enclosing the pound. I recieved a reply from the thugs today (as many of your contributers indeed said I would) However, as was indeed suggested they would, by many of your contributers they TWISTED the intent of £1 was for. I believe now that this firm of thugs will start a barrage of threatening letters simply just to wear me down. Dispaches also said that such companies also freely resort to this type of gestapo tactics.... ANY FURTHER ADVICE.

[scouse12345]

Paddy.. not sure how it's done so can't create one for you, but start a new thread of your own, that'll enable people too reply directly too your episode, and give a little more background as too what stage your up too, and any replies you have had, the more info you provide, the quicker people can get too grips with the plot

[paddysgoat]

Thanks for the help there scouse. I am not very good with computers. I will get some advice on this thread thing. Its good to know that there are good people out there who are having the same problems with these legal bully boys & thugs. If any one can assist me (idiots guide) in setting up a thread. Thanks folks.

[paddysgoat]

what you have written is a mirror image of the manner & utter lies which moorcroft will sink to in order to get funds.

[scouse12345]

General Debt Issues - The Consumer Forums

 

Click on that link Paddy, go too the bottom of the page, and it should have "New Thread" option, remember too provide as much detail as poss..

 

Steve.

[nuke em]

Or, You might want to send them this

 

 

in Care of:

Your address

Your address

Near: Your post code

 

Name

Address

post code

Of the DCA

 

 

Today’s date

Notice of Request to Cease Harassment

 

Your Reference Number: 123456789

 

Dear ???????,

 

Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

 

I refer to your letter dated (date)

 

I feel this matter is serious and wish to deal with it in writing.

As you are a third party intervener in this matter acting without authority, I DO NOT give you permission to interfere in my commercial affairs as you have no legal standing. I do not have a contract with you and any permission that you believe you may have from me is hereby withdrawn. If you believe that you have power of attorney to act on my behalf you are hereby fired, and any consent that you believe you may have, tacit or otherwise, is hereby withdrawn.

 

I am familiar with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. And I believe, should you continue in contacting me after my request for you to cease your activity, that you will be guilty of harassment and blackmail, and you will be in breach of these acts, and you will be reported to the relevant bodies.

 

I am well aware of Section 40, sub-section (3) which you may consider entitles you to proceed. However upon full commercial liability and penalty of perjury you will need to supply the following Proofs of Claims:

 

1. Proof of Claim that your actions are reasonable.

 

2. Proof of Claim that any obligation on my part is due, or believed by you to be due to you, and not to some other party.

 

3a. Proof of Claim that any obligation on my part is to yourself by providing sight of the appropriate contract, or

 

3b. Proof of Claim that any obligation on my part to persons for whom you act by providing sight of the appropriate contract.

 

4. Proof of Claim that any obligation on my part protects you from any future loss.

 

5. Proof of Claim that any obligation on my part is enforcement of a legal process on a Human Being under Common Law jurisdiction, who cannot possibly have such liability under said jurisdiction.

 

6. A hand signed invoice in accordance with The Bills of Exchange Act 1882

 

You would of course need to provide these Proofs, including showing full accounting, if you choose to go to law.

 

Please provide sufficient evidence within ten (10) days from the above date,

Should you provide that I owe your organisation or your client any outstanding amount and that you can provide proof that they have assigned you agency, I should be happy to pay any verified claim in full.

 

Your said failure to provide verification of your claim constitutes your agreement to the following terms: that you are a third party interloper; you have no legal standing; no first-hand knowledge of this matter; your claim is fraudulent; any damages I suffer, you will be held culpable; that any negative remarks made to a credit reference agency will be removed and that you will no longer pursue this matter any further.

 

You will be deemed to have been served notice of my request and I will deem it served three(3) days from the date of this letter. This has been sent by recorded delivery. I am advising you that any communications from you including but not limited to letter, phone calls and text messages received after this date will be recorded/noted with the intention of them being used as evidence.

 

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity

 

 

By: XXX-YYY :of the ZZZZ family

 

Authorised Representative All Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved.

 

-----------

notes on this Doc... the bits in red are important to you, send exactly as is, read below

 

Do Not sign this letter, there is no need to sign anything that is not a contract

 

 

At the bottom of the document if your name is John Smith

You print John:of the Smith family

 

if your name is John Martin Smith

Your print John-Martin: of the Smith Family

 

Use uppercase/lowercase exactly as on the document for the RED sections.

 

also look at the address section in RED

 

the "In Care of:" your address

 

"Near" your postcode

are important also

[paddysgoat]

what can I say to both scouse & yourself Nuke em.....

 

WORTH YOUR WEIGHTS IN PURE GOLD THANKS A MILLION

[nuke em]

I'm glad you said pure Gold and not silly paper currency!!! haha

 

cheers!

[Odessa]

Many thanks and cheers Alfwithair, so basicially if they take me to court, I am f##ked for the full amount? But the rest of your information is of a good help, thank you again, yours Odessa

[Odessa]

Alfwithhair, is CCA a county court action, what is this ? and what does it entail ?, many thanks Odessa

[alfwithhair]

Alfwithhair, is CCA a county court action, what is this ? and what does it entail ?, many thanks Odessa

 

No, No, a cca request is asking them to provide you with a copy of your Consumer Credit Agreement. Which if they can't provide prevents them from enforcing the debt through the courts.

 

Read here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

You send this letter to moorcroft, then if they fail to provide the paperwork within 12+2 working days the account goes in to dispute and remains in dispute until such time as they furnish your request. (which knowing Moorcroft will be never)

 

Whilst in dispute you can legally withhold any further payments and they cannot enforce the debt via the county court.

 

As a matter of interest how old is this account?

When did you last make any payment towards it?

Did you receive a Default Notice?

 

Another point to make is that Mercers and Calders are just Barclayshark in drag, they are trading names of their collections army

Edited July 22, 2010 by alfwithhair

[letsdothis]

Moorcroft will reply to a CCA with a template letter stating that they have asked the original creditor to supply the agreement, and some red-herring waffle about court defence and so on. A reply is unnecessary.

 

Then they will send you one of these.

 

 

[dyfrigj]

I've drafted something that is a bit softer than rory32 or nukem. This isn't for people who want to dispute the debt, but just want Moorcroft to stop hassling them. I would suggest sending this as soon as you get their first letter. Don't be pressured by their demands to hand over money straight away. You have the right to settle your account within a reasonable time-frame.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Your Address,

 

Your Address,

 

Your Address,

 

Your Postcode

Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd.,

P.O. Box 17,

2 Spring Gardens,

Stockport,

SK1 4AJ

 

 

Moorcroft Reference: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

Date, Date, 20XX

 

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

 

 

Dear Mr. XXXXX,

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated XX/XX/20XX, regarding my alleged debt to XXXXXXXXXXX. I am currently reviewing this situation, and will endeavour to settle this matter to both parties' satisfaction within a reasonable time period. I will contact you to discuss settlement of this matter within 21 days of the receipt of this letter. This letter will be deemed delivered on the XXth of XXXX, 20XX, two working days from today.

 

If Moorcroft Debt Recovery (henceforth known as Moorcroft) wish to claim the sum outlined in the letter (above) using the Small Claims Track of the County Court System, the Judge will evaluate whether reasonable attempts have been made to settle this matter without recourse to the courts. I wish to clearly state that I am anxious to settle this matter in a timely manner, and do not seek to unreasonably delay settlement. My proposal is that I discuss final settlement with you on the date noted above (the XXth of XXXXX, 20XX), which is within a month of receiving initial contact from Moorcroft. Rejection of this proposal, and an escalation of this matter before the XXth of XXXX, may be construed as unreasonable behaviour on the part of Moorcroft, and may damage your case, were it to come before a Court.

 

In the meantime, I would appreciate it if you could provide me with a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In addition, please ensure that any further contact initiated by Moorcroft regarding this matter is made in writing, or by email, only. Letters may be sent to the address above, emails may be addressed to XXXXXX. I will endeavour to answer any written correspondence from Moorcroft within 3 working days, and email contact within 1 working day.

 

I would draw your attention to clause 2.6 J of the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidelines (July 2003, Updated December 2006), which clearly state that Debt Collectors must not “[act] in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor either deliberately or through lack of care”. I also refer to Clause 2.2 G of the document named above, which states that Debt Collectors may be guilty of unfair practices if they “[ignore or disregard] debtors' legitimate wishes in respect of when and where to contact them”.

 

Any visits to my home, or any telephone calls made, will be construed as being publicly embarrassing, and contrary to my legitimate wishes regarding communication. Should contact be made by these means, they will be subject to a complaint to the relevant authority, and possible legal action.

 

It is understood that my failure to respond to contact by the above means would force Moorcroft to rely on other methods of communication. However, Moorcroft must demonstrate that I have failed to answer written or emailed communication in a timely manner if they are to resort to communication by other means.

 

Moreover, I would also draw your attention to Clause 2.6 A of the document named above, which states that Debt Collectors must not “[contact] debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals”. A record will be kept of all contact initiated by Moorcroft, and the nature and content of the message being communicated. Any further communication initiated by Moorcroft must clearly be used to advance discussions between Moorcroft and myself. Communications which do not include any new information, do not seek to develop negotiations, and which simply re-iterate points of view already discussed, will be treated as vexatious, and may also be subject to a formal complaint or legal action.

 

In summary, I am anxious to bring this matter to a close as soon as is practicable. As previously stated, I will be in contact on or before the XXth of XXXX, 20XX to discuss final settlement of this matter. In the meantime, I ask Moorcroft to observe the correspondence guidelines set out in this letter, and to abide by them.

 

Yours Sincerely.

 

 

XXXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2011 by dyfrigj
Formatting nightmares