Angry Cat V Morgan Stanley **WON AT LONG BL**DY LAST!!!**

[angry cat]

Hi Guys!

 

Have just posted the Letter Before Action plus-

Notice Pursuant to Section 10 of The Data Protection Act 1998 to-

Ms Aileen Johnston

Customer Care Manager

MORGAN STANLEY

 

Ms Johnston replied 21 April 2006 to my preliminary letter stating that she was investigating "the matter" and would provide a full response within 10 working days !?

 

I decided to send the (Library) DPA S.10 Notice because MS have threatened me with a Default, which could be registered on May 8 2006. Hopefully the Notice will prevent the Default?

 

Meowww

 

angry cat

[omollmeg]

If you do end up putting in for a claim do you know how to do it as Money Claim Online is for England and Wales but Morgan Stanley address is Glasgow.

Any ideas???? Am in the process now

Thanks

[jonni2bad]

With regards the notice to default, write separately to state the you are contesting (part of?) the debt and that they have a legal obligation not to proceed until this matter is resolved.

[angry cat]

Hi Jonni2bad-

 

Unfortunately the threatened MS Notice of Default dated 10/04/06 arrived the day after I had sent the preliminary Library letter, the two letters had crossed in the post!

 

However, I immediately wrote to MS Customer Care requesting that MS freeze any action. I formally advised them "that I am making a record of this request, so that should Morgan Stanley continue with their actions against me and I incur a 'Default' or any additional costs in the interim I will petition the County Court for those costs and reversal of any Default registered"

 

I have been becoming increasingly concerned though, because the timing is against me. The Notice stated that the default would be registered within 28 days of receiving the Notice which would be 8 May 2006!

 

Obviously I am going through the process sent preliminary letter wait 14 days and then sent Before Action Letter 27/04/06 - wait 14 days before I can make the CC claim. Therefore I deduced that MS will have defaulted me before I even get to court!

 

Hopefully, they will act upon the request in my letter 'that they freeze any action' and/or take heed of the Notice Pursuant to S10 of the DPA

 

I am trying really hard here!!! ...and I cannot have my CRA ruined, it would be a distaster for me.

 

Thanks

 

angry cat

[angry cat]

Hi-

Now that is quite a point!

I havn't got that far yet-

However they do have a Registered Office-

 

Morgan Stanley

25 Cabot Square

London E14 4QA

 

plus their card processing address

 

Morgan Stanley

Milton Keynes

MK77 1ZW

 

I will go and do some detective work and report back

 

thanks

angry cat

 

I am just of to check and see if there is any other address

[surreyscouse]

if you give me their company registration number I can find out the registered address straight away for you. Just let me know

[angry cat]

No worries surreyscouse-

I have posted the Registered Office address, which I obtained from MS letters-

MS Registered number is- 37225587

Anyhow for future reference the MS Registered Office is:-

 

Morgan Stanley Card Services Ltd

25 Cabot Square

London

E14 4QA

 

However, the address may differ for Loans?

 

Kind thoughts

 

angry cat

[omollmeg]

Thanks for all your help.

I calleg MS today and again spoke to the lovely Jenny and said I was wondering if anything further had been decided their end as I didn't want to necessarily drag it out with a claim as they have already credited back £140. She advised to wait until next week then see if I have had any response even though the 14 days since LBA is up.

So have decided to wait until Thur the will start action.

[angry cat]

Hi Guys!

 

The time is now up for Morgan Stanley, plus I have totally run out of patience with them.

 

I am in the process of filling out the N1 form to be submitted to the Court but...

please could someone confirm that I have worked out the 8% interest on the penalties correctly.

 

My computer will not open up any of the BAG spreadsheets, so I have used the Courts suggested method for working out the interest:-

 

"Working out interest

To work out the amount of interest you are owed up to the date you start the claim, you first need to work out the daily rate of interest. Using a calculator to do the following

0.00022 X the amount of your claim

This gives you the daily rate of interest

You then need to work out the amount of interest you are owed up to the date you issue your claim. Count how many days have passed since the money became owed to you and multiply that number by the daily rate of interest.

For example-

If you are owed £1,000 the rate of interest would be as follows-

0.00022X1,000=0.22

If the debt became owed to you on 7 March and you are filling in the claim form on 26 April, 50 days have passed.

So, 50X0.22=11"

 

My claim against Morgan Stanley is regarding 14 £20 Penalty Fines & Over Limit Fees which total 14 in all, but the dates of the fines range from 6 Novemeber 2001 to the present month of May 2006.

The way that I have worked out the interest was to take the date of every fine separately and then I counted the number of days that have passed since the fine was levied and I worked out the interest of all 14 fines. I am owed £280 and the interest owed worked out to be £58.2956

Does this sound about right?

Also, should I just be claiming 8% as I have noticed that some posts are suggesting claiming a higher interest rate

 

Incidentally, I have noted that 10 of the fines were levied whilst I had a Payment Protection Insurance accepted claim in place and I wonder how the judge will view the levying of fines on an account when the remit was the responsibility of the banks chosen insurance company - Norwich Union.

 

The last letter that I received from Morgan Stanley was 21 April 2006 a response to my (Library) template preliminary letter, MS were investigating the matter and that I would receive a full response in 10 working days, but I have received nothing from them?!

I sent the LBA letter 28 April 2006-

 

MORGAN STANLEY YOUR TIME IS NOW UP!!!

 

N1 Claim Form waiting to be submitted

 

Thanks

angry cat

[surreyscouse]

You go girlfriend ! you deserve that money back - be strong !

[angry cat]

Hi Surreyscouse!

 

Thanks for your encouragement- I guess, that my calculations were correct then-

I sat outside in the sun for hours working it all out.

Keep the Faith!

 

angry cat

[angry cat]

Hi Guys !

 

I have received the following response dated 15 May 2006 to my Library Template letter...but my LBA has already be sent.

 

"Dear XXXX

Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding your Morgan Stanley credit card account.

I have reviewed your account and can confirm that since opening on 27 April 2000, your account has incurred 11 late fees and 3 overlimit fees with 1 late fee having been previously been refunded.

 

Morgan Stanley strives to comply with industry best practice and does not consider that the charges incurred on your account are unfair or constitute a penalty. However, our charging structure is in the process of being reviewed following recent preliminary guidance provided by The Office of Fair Trading to the industry.

Bearing this in mind, any refunds of this nature will represent the difference between the charges applied to your account and the £12 charge level that the Office of Fair Trading has recently recommended. Therefore, a refund of £104.00 has been applied to your account for the 13 £20.00 fees previously incurred.

 

We are unable to amend your credit file in relation to this matter as the account payment information is automatically registered on your credit file to show a true reflection of your account held with us. Your statement is released on the 6th of the month and you have 25 days to make a payment. If the minimum payment for your account is not received by the payment due date, a £20 late fee is automatically added and any promotional interest rates are removed.

 

I trust this satisfactorily explains matters for you. However, should my explanation in any way not meet your expectations or you have additional information to add to our comments, please contact our Customer Liason Manager Aileen Johnston.

 

Signed Jennifer Claassens - Customer Liason Officer"

 

WHAT A CHEEK !!!! and WRONG Morgan Stanley it is 14 penalties NOT 13 penalties !

plus 10 of the fines were levied whilst I had a PPI claim in place and the remit was the responsibility of the insurer - Norwich Union, why didn't MS fine Norwich Union?...Let's see what the judge makes of that fact (sarcasm sorry)

 

Morgan Stanley are offering me £8 per levied fine with no mention of any accrued interest? Oh and how they love to play with words ! "The £12 charge level that the Office of Fair Trading has recommeded"

 

Needless to say that I will not be accepting their insulting incorrect offer of £104 when factually they owe me £338. 29 made up of £280 of fines plus £58.29 interest @ 8%

 

The MS letter does not make any mention of the threatened 'Default' that was to be registered on 8 May 2006. I sent them a 'NOTICE PURSUANT TO S10 OF THE DATA PROTECTION ACT1998 on 27 April 2006.

 

My N1 claim form will be submitted today to my local Court against-

Morgan Stanley Card Service Limited

25 Cabot Square

London E14 4 QA

 

If anyone else is claiming against MS and reside in England the claim cannot be to a PO Box number or to their Scottish address.

 

I hope that you find the MS letter of interest and as always I welcome your comments!

 

Thanks

angry cat

[angry cat]

Hi Guys !

 

My question is about claiming back interest on credit card penalty fines?

 

I understand that when making a County Court claim, then you can claim interest on the money the defendant owes you, that is that the claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year, from [date when money became owed to you] to [the date that you are issuing the claim] of £XXX and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement at the same rate.

 

However, what about the interest that has already been charged on penalty fines?

 

For example if one has been fined £20 in 2001 plus 7 £20 fines in 2002, 3 £20 fines in 2003 and so on...Then all of the fines have incurred interest, in my case 1.313% per month, surely one must be able to claim back this accrued interest as well?

Because, if the account had not been penalised by these unfair fines in the first place, then this additional money would not have been taken from the account.

 

I would appreciate some advice here, as I have worked out that my fines amount to £280 plus the 8% interest of £58.29 = £338.29, but I have not included the interest that I have already been charged at a rate of 1.313% per month since 2001.

 

Should I re-calculate the amount owed, to include the already paid interest on the fines? or can one only claim the 8% under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984

 

I hope that my question is clear as I have tried to explain it logically.

 

Thanks

angry cat

[Guest Lueeze]

Any interest you claim against the charges has to relate specifically to interest accrued by each individual charge. To callculate this you need a degree in applied mathematics - you can use Vampiresses Spread sheet to help you work out this figure, in the Library,

 

 

Good Luck!

 

Lou xx

[angry cat]

Hi Lueeze-

Thanks for your response !

 

The reason for my question is that I am ready to submit a County Court Claim and I cannot get any of the spreadsheets to open on my computer. It's not actually that difficult to work out the interest by hand on credit card penalties. You just have to work them out individually having ascertained the monthly or annual rate of interest that has been charged

 

I have a list of all the charges and the dates that they were levied-

With the help of HMCS doc. X302 'How to make a Claim' (the pamphlet gives a method on how to work out the daily rate)

Having listed each fine and the date levied, I managed to ascertain the 8% on each fine.

 

However, after studying all of the fines and the dates that they were applied, it struck me that surely I should be listing the fines plus date applied = £20 plus the interest that has been charged on on each fine since the fine was levied on the particulars of claim and then add the County Court Act 1984 8% interest. It doesn't make sense not to add the already charged interest, because if the penalty had not been applied in the first place, then this interest would not have been taken by the Credit card company! They have taken the interest on the fines and it should be returned along with the penalty fee.

 

I welcome your thoughts

 

Thanks

angry cat

[Alleycat]

Do you have excel? If you know what you are doing with spreadsheets I can post the formula if you want, then you just have to paste it in to the relevant cells.

[angry cat]

Hi Guys

 

Well, I have received a nice letter from MS this morning!

They have closed my account and have issued me with a formal demand for the full balance, this is in respect of a Default Notice that they threatened to register on the 8th May 2006.

Because, they owed me more in fines that the amount owed in arrears, I had written to them requesting that they freeze any action until my dispute had been resolved and I also sent them a Section 10 DPA Notice.

 

I have spent some considerable time in working out the exact monies that MS owe me in respect of the fines that were levied on my account, at first I thought that the amount was £280.00 but after hours of calculating the interest that had been added over a period of 5 years, the amount owed rose to £388.20.

Because of Court protocol, I thought it best to give them a further 7 days to refund the monies, therefore I sent Aileen Johnston a revised LBA for the refund of my fines plus interest. MS Aileen Johnston wrote to me 15 May 2006 and four days later 19 May 2006 Morgan Stanley CLOSE MY ACCOUNT an issue me with a Final Demand for £5,665.56

 

What is the Legal position on this? does anyone know

 

Thanks Morgan Stanley

 

angry cat

[Guest Lueeze]

They can close it, and ask for repayment but how does anyone pay £5k back!? They know this!

 

As far as im aware they cannot enter a default if the balance is in dispute, but they may try to anyway...I would negotiate a payment plan, with frozen interest otherwise you will never clear it off. Sorry im not much help, maybe someone with more experience can add to this...

 

Good Luck

 

Louise

[angry cat]

Hi Lueeze-

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

I know that a bank can close your account, if you have defaulted but....

I gave MS ample warning that I am in dispute over the fines that have been levied!

and as you know I sent them a Library template 'Notice' pursuant to Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 on 27 April 2006.

 

MS owe me more money for their fines plus the associated interest than the arrears that I have been defaulted for!?

 

When looking at my post, please consider that I have maintained the required payments to MS that is until I recently requested a refund of the fines, including interest.

 

However, I would greatly appreciate advice on this from someone 'in the know'

 

Thanks

 

angry cat

[Guest Lueeze]

You say the amount owed is less than the charges, but in your post I read it to be

 

Balance £5665.56

Charges £388.20

 

So they can ask for all the borrowing back minus the disputed amount im afraid.

 

Maybe someone else can assist a bit more...

 

Lou xxx

[angry cat]

Hi Guys!

 

Fool that I am, because I decided to give Morgan Stanley 7 more days, that is until 30 May 2006 and...

the day after I sent my revised 'Request for Refund of Charges' - which included the accrued interest over the 5 year period in which the fines were applied, Morgan Stanley have closed my account and now demand 'full payment'.

Even though-

 

I requested that they "suspend the default until my complaint has been resolved as it is very clear that the amount owed is in dispute" I also stated "I have no intention of crediting the account with any funds pending satisfactory resolution of my claim. Under these circumstances I REQUEST that Morgan Stanley freeze any action against me. I formally advise you, that I am making a record of this request, so that should Morgan Stanley continue their actions against me and I incur a 'Default' or any additional costs in the interim I will petition the County Court for those costs and reversal of any Default registered. Please refer to the Banking Code Section 13.6 of which Morgan Stanley is commited to adhere to"

I have also sent them a 'NOTICE Pursuant of Section 10 of the DPA

 

So Guy's where do I go from here?

 

I wish I could go and curl up in a nice warm basket and be all purrrrrrry

but tonight it's Khhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrssshhh - scratch, scream - Miaaaaaaaaaaawwkkshhh**@@!!!!!!!

 

However, I love you guy's and that is a comfort:)

 

Any ideas----purrrlease????

 

Thanks

angry cat

[angry cat]

Hi Lueeze-

No,

I have been defaulted because I have not paid the required arrears amounting to:-

£331.00 or £445.00 by 01 June 2006.

MS owe me £380.20 in fines and it is not the 1st June 2006.

The balance is another issue.

 

I am sooooo, Fed up with Fighting these Banks!!!

They really do, just ride 'Roughshod' over the consumer and need to be made accountable for their actions !

 

 

Thanks

angry cat

[angry cat]

Hi Guy's !

 

I have just returned from my local County Court and...

At last I have today 31 May 2006 issued a claim against Morgan Stanley.

 

I have given MS ample opportunity to refund my charges, having sent the preliminary letter, then the Letter Before Action and... I even gave them an additional 7 days from 23 May 2006 until yesterday 30 May 2006 to refund all charges plus interest.

 

This morning I received a letter from Aileen Johnston dated 30 May 2006, basically refusing to pay back all of my charges (they make no mention of the interest that I have claimed). MS owe me 14 £20 charges = £280 plus the accrued interest. They have offered me refunds of £8.00 per charge, which amounts to £112.00.

 

Included in their WITHOUT PREJUDICE letter was a "Morgan Stanley Terms of Settlement Declaration"

"Morgan Stanley is prepared to make an offer of £112.00 in respect of the above complaint on the following terms"

"1. Morgan Stanley will make a payment of £112.00 to your Morgan Stanley credit card account.

 

2. The Terms of the offer and details of this matter shall remain confidential between yourself and Morgan Stanley.

 

3. The offer is open until 20 June 2006.

 

4.You agree not to make a claim against Morgan Stanley in any Court of competent juisdiction, or make a complaint against Morgan Stanley to any relevant regulatory authority or Ombudsman Service. In the event that a claim or complaint has already been made on your behalf, you agree to withdraw any claim/complaint and provide us with written confirmation of the same.

 

Please indicate your consent to the above by signing and returning this acceptance declaration below in the prepaid envelope by 20 June 2006."

 

Well Morgan Stanley I obviously will NOT be signing your Terms of Settlement Declaration!!!

 

As stated above my N1 form has been submitted and I have paid my £50.00 to the Court and I hold the signed receipt.

 

One interesting paragraph in their letter states"In view of the recent guidance and the value of our continuing relationship with you" Since, registering my dispute with MS and sending them a 'Notice' Pursuant to Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 27 April 2006 they have defalted me and terminated my account for arrears that are less, than the money that I am claiming! Of course, I had advised them that I am in 'dispute' and requested that they freeze any action until the 'dispute' has been resolved.

 

Okay Guy's well, I'm a little bit scared but I am happy to think that I am at last standing up for my Rights. However I will probably need some help and advice, when I go to Court.

 

Thanks

angry cat

[Michael Browne]

Cheeky bu**ers, especially clause 4. Anyway, I sure they'll fold before they get to court.

 

Good Luck.

[angry cat]

Hi Michael Browne !

 

Thank you for wishing me Good Luck

 

I know clause 4 is atonishing and...to be frank, I was quite surprised by it-

anyhow it clearly shows, how gullible these Financial Institutions consider the mere consumer appears to be!?

Cheeky is the word, they want me to sign away my rights and...

the declaration prevents me from even making a complaint to the Ombudsman, which would cost MS £370.00

 

They are so petty, MS should not even be wasting the Court's time? by their prevarications/ quibbling over an amount that they clearly owe me. However I note, that MS made no mention of the fact that I am also claiming the contractual rate of interest that has been levied on each fine, from each fine date and on a daily rate of 15% interest for 4.5 years through to 2006

 

Anyhow, it's all done now and I will wait for the day when I will show my proof to the Judge.

 

Any comments, or help will be most welcome-

 

Thanks

angry cat