My Capital One/Bryan Carter CCJ......

[babybear39]

Thanks Vampyra

[maybelline]

hi,how do you ask for a variation of a ccj you didnt reply to in any way as unwell, what are the options, is it possible to ask for it to be set aside or only for a variation of the amount set as it is not affordable? (asking on behalf of a friend)

[Vampyra]

I have mentioned this before but now have more evidence to get this underway.

 

A certain Cap1 decided to utilise the services of one Bryan Carter in 2005 to collect a less than £500 debt. BC sent me a CCJ form which I had no idea what to do with. I went to Citizen's Advice who told me to admit the debt, and send it back to BC as the form said. I also filled in I was caring for mum and she was at that time seriously ill in hospital.

 

I heard nothing more accept I had a CCJ which I could stop if I paid the £250 claimed by I dunno the 19th of a month, can't remember the date offhand.

 

Anyhow, my boyfriend paid the £250 via electronic banking direct to BC's account on evening of 18th which meant it was paid before the deadline. I found I still have the CCJ and BC have it marked on my credit file and not satisfied so potential creditors see it as I never paid the debt.

 

I also found out the form I filled in was never given as evidence to the judge and he just passed the CCJ as though I didn't bother answering.

 

Now, I have a copy of my bf's statement showing the monies left his account for BC's before the deadline - BC claim it cleared around 7 days later so I got the CCJ.

 

I have now S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Cap1 and they finally sent back printouts showing no monies were ever paid to Cap1 to reduce the balance - i.e. the £250 my bf paid just went into BC's pocket.

 

I think I wish to CCA and SAR the wonderful BC and find out what occured because Cap1 are now trying to go for the outstanding balance with Lowell.

 

Almost all the Cap1 debt can be disputed as charges.

 

I want to get the CCJ removed, the £250 returned plus costs and compensation and CCA Cap1 over the original debt.

 

Any ideas how I should proceed please?

Edited September 25, 2008 by Vampyra
Bad spelling....as usual!

[Bookworm]

Ok, I can't answer all, I'll answer what I can.

 

The BC CCJ: I don't think you can get it overturned. It's always a case of cleared funds needing to reach the account by a certain date, not when they left your account.

 

It looks as if BC bought the debt from Cap1 for pennies and went after you themselves, which is why they would have then kept the money.

 

I am guessing that BC have then sold the reminder of the debt to Lowells and they are now trying to get you to cough up as well.

 

What I would do (based on my guesses, mind you) is:

 

1 - Send Lowell the "I don't owe you jack, prove otherwise" letter .

2 - Go after Cap1 for the charges + interest levied on charges. If they decided to offload to BC, that's their problem, not yours, and they're still the ones who levied the charges in the 1st place.

3 - Can't help with the BC payment, not sure where you stand on that, but others will.

[Vampyra]

Hi Bookworm and thanks for your help.

 

Just to make it clear, Lowells are not going for the rest of the debt, as it were, they are only going for what the debt originally was. The £250 has not reduced the balance at all from Cap1. Cap1's paperwork shows no selling of the debt and no funds in from anywhere - not even a few pennies!

 

BC wrote the County Court form in the name of Cap1 - not them.

 

I think this is fishy because if £250 of a debt is paid whether in time or not, then it should show somewhere that the debt is reduced, surely? Even by pennies?

 

Else what was the CCJ actually for? For nothing because it didn't reduce the debt. I wonder if that would come under the heading of "abuse of process"? Plus they refuse to say the CCJ is satisfied.

 

I suppose I could show them the evidence and say I want the CCJ removed else I will go to a court to get it overturned and show the jusge none of the CCJ monies actually paid off the debt?

 

Surely a DCA caliming that money on behalf of Cap1 then never paying it is theft? They have secured funds under false pretences?

 

I'm sticking stuff in the mix here which may not be right but I'm prepared to give it a bloody good go!

[Vampyra]

I have just spoken to Northampton Bulk Clearing and they have told me that the bank statement showing this was paid via online banking on the 15th September 2005 for a debt to be paid by 17th September 2005 means a CCJ should never have been issued.

 

They have told me to send in the copy of the bank statement with a covering letter to explain that my bf paid this on my behalf. The statement, (gawd bless Barclays on this), even shows the Ref no which my OH filled in which relates completely to the CCJ form!

 

Fingers crossed!

[MadScouser]

From the way you have explained things above, and Ive seen Bryan Carter do the same elsewhere, through posts on this site, is that they have taken you to court for their costs, which you have paid. They have then passed the original debt back to the OC, who have passed it onto Lowells to claim.

 

Not sure how you can battle this, as its 2 different DCA's although you should be able to say you already have a CCJ for this debt there cant get another? One of the more knowledgeable legal guys will be around to advise more in depth than me.

[palomino]

Firstly, let's deal specifically with the CCJ.

 

If the case is not defended then it never goes before a judge. Your explanation of the difficult circumstances of your mother's illnes isn't a defence.

Hence a default judgment is granted.

 

Given the time since it was granted you will have considerably difficulty in having this overturned.

 

Do you have a copy of the claim and the judgment?

 

If not then ask the Northampton CCBC to send copies to you. You may have to do this in writing but you can try ringing them first.

 

If the judgment was specifically for part of that debt then you're in the clear as you cannot split a claim - section 35 of the County Courts Act 1984 specifically excludes this.

 

Since you have paid off the CCJ then you're home! You can tell Cap1 to go away (as politely as you like) because a CCJ [give the number] was obtained for the debt and that CCJ has been paid in full.

 

You should have a certificate of satisfaction which you send to the credit reference agencies, asking them to clear the defaults from your file from date of the certificate. Unfortunately the 'system' doesn't do this for you.

 

Actually stepping back a bit, when was the cleared payment made in relation the date of the court hearing? Your first post doesn't actually say say but it sounds like you paid up just prior to the hearing - is this correct?

[Vampyra]

Right firstly I'll tackle the defence. Citizen's Advice told me to explain my circumstances and explain I was income support as a carer and therefore I would not be judged to pay a huge monthly amount. CAB actually filled the form out for me.

 

None the less the court have confirmed my defence papers are not on file and were never sent to the court by Bryan Carter. CAB told me to send the defence back to Bryan Carter as it said on the form.

 

The judgement was for £250 by 17th September 2005 or £50 per month starting on 17th September 2005.

 

I'm led to believe people on income support get judged at £1.00 per month in a case such as this.

 

I actually phoned up the court to ask a question and explain this was paid but it's not showing as satisfied - the lady asked when did we pay I told her 15th by online transfer and she said "oh well then you shouldn't have this CCJ. If you have proof I suggest you send this in and ask for it to be removed".

 

Yes it is for part of a debt and the judgement says that and I believe they cannot do this. And if not then I shouldn't have got a CCJ, surely?

 

I'm not fussed about Cap1 - I actually feel like CCAing them anyway because I bet they didn't have the CA.

 

Bryan Carter never sent me a certificate of satisfaction and I have asked them and they say they will and they don't. I will be writing recorded for this, but I can only afford so many recordeds a week - I'm still a full time carer.

 

According to Bryan Carter originally the CLEARED payment was nearly 8 days after payment. I've checked with banks and although the payment shows as cleared 2-3 days after payment it is actually in the payees account immediately it just takes that time for banks to take their interest, (that bit is my interpretation lol).

 

The hearing was on the 18th August 2005 the first or full payment was due 17th September 2005. Don't tell me I should have paid sooner - the OH was very angry about this and didn't know if he should pay but relented - afterall it was his £250!

 

I hope that answers your questions?

Edited September 26, 2008 by Vampyra
My explanations not very clear

[Vampyra]

I've just found out I can get this set aside because of the split claim if the court wont remove it due to any issues with the payment date.

[pt2537]

HI, Vampyra,

 

Now then,

 

you may be able to use this to your advantage,

 

IF BC took you to court for part of the debt, you then paid the claim and it is now satisfied, they are not permitted to pursue you any further as the debt is actually satisfied

 

its not your fault that they cocked it up and sued you for only part of the whole debt, BC were basically negligent

 

i would have a think about this carefully what you want to do with this

 

have a read here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/161367-help-required-re-1-a-2.html#post1731466

[Vampyra]

Hi there

 

I am sorry for sounding ignorant, but I'm not getting what you mean. My issue is not the Cap1/Lowells side of things but with a CCJ for a part amount - somewhere on CAG I read a DCA cannot go to court for their fees and this is what BC has done.

 

If BC have applied for their fees, surely this CCJ can be set aside? Also, if the court accept the payment as being 15th September 2005 they might remove it anyway???

 

If I am entitled to get this removed I want to do it not just have satisfied on my file.

 

Having said that I know you know what you are talking about with these things, so would you please advise me what I can and cannot do about this CCJ, and how I should go about it? I would be very greatful if you would please help.

[pt2537]

Ok, sorry ,

 

 

Right, say i owe BC £15000 and they take me to court for £150 and get a CCJ, then i pay them the £150. thats it, i no longer owe them sod all, through their negligence i am absolved of all liabilities for the remaining debt

 

think of it as the double jeopardy rule, they are only allowed one bite of the cherry

 

does that make a bit more sense?

[Vampyra]

OK yes it does. Thank you.

 

So I am happy to stick a couple of nice letters into Cap1 and Lowells in due course informing them to go shove it up their chaffer, so's to speak.

 

However, I don't have a certificate of satisfaction with which to do this with yet. That's not an issue, I'm sure even if BC fail on that the court can see proof of payment from the bank statement. I don't know if the court has the power to issue Certificates of Saticfaction?

 

Now, my bug-bear is two fold.

 

If BC are not allowed to make a CC claim for part of the debt - AND if as I am led to believe a DCA is not allowed to claim their fees only AND my defence with my budgeting form showing my income support status was not shown to the court, (I read somewhere if a defendant sends in their circumstances of not being able to pay this would have been taken into consideration and the judgement could - and I said could because I am not 100% sure but read it on one of the sites about overturning CCJ's - be set aside), that I believe, from what I have read I may well have valid grounds to get it set aside if the court do not want to accept the CCJ was paid on time.

 

If the court will not accept the CCJ was paid on time and should thus be removed, I would like to, if possible have a try to get it set aside.

 

I will take advise from you as I know you know what to do - I'm always up for pushing boundaries.

 

The fact is, if I can make this as clear as possible. The credit card was only £250 - I've paid it or the OH did - the rest of the debt was charges and DCA interest anyway - I've not got off scot-free. But for as much as I dispise Cap1 I am actually very annoyed the money didn't go to them who lent me the monies.

[palomino]

I think you should regard the claim as for the full amount. It's been paid and that's the end of it. What happens between BC and Cap1 is up to them - let Cap1 take BC to court.

 

As for the certificate of satisfaction you will have to push hard for this. BC is known as being as slippery as an eel on a hook. Just keep at it I'm afraid - maybe you even have to go back to court for an order to get him to do this. Make sure your paperwork is 100% watertight of course.

[Vampyra]

I think you should regard the claim as for the full amount. It's been paid and that's the end of it. What happens between BC and Cap1 is up to them - let Cap1 take BC to court.

 

As for the certificate of satisfaction you will have to push hard for this. BC is known as being as slippery as an eel on a hook. Just keep at it I'm afraid - maybe you even have to go back to court for an order to get him to do this. Make sure your paperwork is 100% watertight of course.

 

I do understand that it will be the end of the matter.

 

Are you telling me that a court cannot ever issue a Certificate of Satisfaction?

[Vampyra]

Just found this:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/56389-pmhcfc-capital-one-default-2.html?highlight=CCJ+removed#post1468322

 

This is the same as my situation and I want to force them to get it removed. The Cap1 debt as it is now could be wiped out with charges as also the extra BC added on.

 

Mind is thinking here, maybe BC need to know I know what they did was abuse of process and I now know the monies were never paid to Cap1 and Cap1 are after the rest and are going to be after them if they don't sort this CCJ out, as the whole debt can be proved to be wiped out in charges.

 

I wonder if this is what pt2537 means by a bit of the old double jeopardy?

[palomino]

Are you telling me that a court cannot ever issue a Certificate of Satisfaction?

 

As I understand it creditor issues a certificate of satisfaction - and the Court is not the creditor.

Unfortunately I've never had enough money to reach the point of 'satisfying' any creditors so I cannot say definitively. We need a legal person here - pt?

[palomino]

I wonder if this is what pt2537 means by a bit of the old double jeopardy?

 

Not quite, double jeopardy means two claims for the same debt.

[Vampyra]

Just a little update. I am in no way concerned about this but I thought I would post it for the laugh.

 

This morning I got a letter from Lowell re this debt. In the letter I am asked to bid to buy back my debt - LOL - I nearly fell off my chair. That has to be the funniest tactic I've ever seen to get someone to pay.

 

When I have some time I'll scan in the letter and the bidding form.

[Vampyra]

As I understand it creditor issues a certificate of satisfaction - and the Court is not the creditor.

Unfortunately I've never had enough money to reach the point of 'satisfying' any creditors so I cannot say definitively. We need a legal person here - pt?

 

OK thanks - I wasn't sure if a court could do that.

 

I've never had the money to satisfy any debts but the OH paid it to actually stop me having a CCJ and that didn't seem to work.

[tinkerbell20]

As I understand it creditor issues a certificate of satisfaction - and the Court is not the creditor.

Unfortunately I've never had enough money to reach the point of 'satisfying' any creditors so I cannot say definitively. We need a legal person here - pt?

 

 

The court issues the certificate of satisfaction - not the creditor. If BC won't confirm that you've paid the debt just send proof of payment to the court and ask them to issue the certificate. They will then write to BC for confirmation.

 

I would think long and hard about setting aside judgment as you could allow Barclaycard to come back and amend their claim to £15,000

[Vampyra]

The court issues the certificate of satisfaction - not the creditor. If BC won't confirm that you've paid the debt just send proof of payment to the court and ask them to issue the certificate. They will then write to BC for confirmation.

 

I would think long and hard about setting aside judgment as you could allow Barclaycard to come back and amend their claim to £15,000

 

The debt isn't with Barclaycard and not for £15,000.

[creditcardmug]

For what its worth many years ago i had plenty of certificates of satisfaction, and can confirm that they are issed by the court on payment of a small fee, as soon as the court is satisfied that The Court Order has been paid in full

[Vampyra]

Thank you maybe the Court will tell me how to go about this.