Mel v Sainsburys - judgement set aside - urgent advice and help please

[100mel]

I had a Sainsburys Credit Card. In 2004 whilst caring for my terminally ill father they registered default on credit file without notifying me and proceeded to demand the full debt. They passed the debt to Blair Oliver and Scott which I did not realise until reading this great site that they are only another part of HBOS anyway. The interest and charges were frozen but no statements of any kind have been provided for over 2 years. During this time regular monthly payments have been made on an agreed payment plan. Following the death of my father and the release of some monies from the estate I have attempted to reach a full and final settlement with an offer of over 50% of the debt because that is what I can afford. However, they do not respond to letters either from me or a solicitor and some 15 have been sent to date. Has anyone any ideas as to what I can do in order to make them see sense, accept a reasonable offer because it is all there is, and remove the default from my credit file. Surely a decent full and final now is preferable to 28 years of payments..............

[JonCris]

Did you have any charges set against your account & what where they for?

[100mel]

Going back to the time when Sainsburys were issuing statements there were lots of late payment charges made - I have them listed in a spreadsheet somewhere Since Blair Oliver and Scott took over the account or it moved to them despite repeated requests they have not issued any statements of any sort. They have ignored all requests for a payment book and have never even confirmed receipt of the monthly payments. Even if by some miracle they were to finally accept the offer of over 50% of the debt as I believe it to be I am doubtful that they would call the debt satisfied and remove the default from my file (this is my main objective in all this)

[Mike220359]

The fact that they haven't provided any statements means they are contravening the CCA act. Ask for a copy of the original agreement and the deed of assignment to them. Regardless of them being an offshoot of HBOS they still have to abide by the rules since in the OFTs eyes they are a sepearte entity. So the paperwork has to be sqeeky clean.

 

I am (was) in a similar boat, took loan out with a bank which subsequently got taken over by HBOS, became very ill, and got defaulted. When back at work began a payment plan with Blair et al over the 'phone like I'm sure you did, no paperwork, no contract, and no statements.

 

After discovering this lovely site, I sent them a CCA request for the original paperwork, no reply after 14 working days, so payments can legally stop. No reply after one month as in my case, they have broken the law, haven't made a payment since July 1st, and I haven't heard a dickybird from them (which is very unusual since they do get on the blower very quickly)

 

Hold on to your money, chances are they have been taking your money unlawfully since you statred making th payments. Any other advice required pm me

mike

[Mike220359]

As regards the default, ask the original providor to provide a copy of the default, if there is no copy of the original contract, the default cannot exist.

 

How can you default on something that never existed?

 

Mike

[100mel]

Mike - thanks very much for this - yes everything done with the minimum of paperwork like you so should I send my request to Blair Oliver and Scott or Sainsburys at Halifax collections address

 

Mel

[JonCris]

Going back to the time when Sainsburys were issuing statements there were lots of late payment charges made - I have them listed in a spreadsheet somewhere Since Blair Oliver and Scott took over the account or it moved to them despite repeated requests they have not issued any statements of any sort. They have ignored all requests for a payment book and have never even confirmed receipt of the monthly payments. Even if by some miracle they were to finally accept the offer of over 50% of the debt as I believe it to be I am doubtful that they would call the debt satisfied and remove the default from my file (this is my main objective in all this)

 

Your offers are

 

Make no further payments. Withdraw any & all offers NOW in writing.

 

Send an s78 to the DCA. Send a SAR to Sainsbury demanding any & all statements.

 

Amend the letter below & send together with your s78 CCA demand to Sainsbury with a copy to the DCA & it will explian to them why you have ceased payment & that the debt is now most certainly in dispute

 

Take the fight to them by getting the money they have ripped off you.

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account Number:

 

Due to recent media coverage on bank charges and the recent OFT announcement I am now aware that you, Sainsbury have been charging me, charges, that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.

 

I believe that your charges are disproportionately high. Therefore, they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition, I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79.along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963 It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss.

 

Your charges appear to be nothing more than a profit-making scheme. Therefore, I require you to refund my entire bank charges plus contractual interest for the past 6 years. Along with evidence that you have refunded all the charges. I hereby give you 14 days notice to refund the charges plus interest back on to my account. If this is not done within 14 days, I will be forced to start legal proceedings, you will receive no further warnings

[jo5ephedward5]

Hold on to your money, chances are they have been taking your money unlawfully since you statred making th payments. Any other advice required pm me

mike

 

would this mean if you have been paying and they cant provide the info to meet the CCA request you could put in a claim for payments back?

[100mel]

Sorry to be a bit thick but I'm new to all of this - what's a CCA demand, DCA etc - is there a standard form of words

 

I did ask and pay for a copy of the original credit agreement and did receive it back in 2004 when the debt was passed to Blair, Oliver and Scott. It is what has happened since then which is the problem. I'm just a bit confused as to who I'm writing to now and what I'm actually asking for. Ideally I was looking to settle but now it looks as if I should now withdraw my offers and write to BOS and Sainsburys and demand statements for the past 2 years? Don't know if there are any standard letters for this on the site

[Boobaby]

Sorry to be a bit thick but I'm new to all of this - what's a CCA demand, DCA etc - is there a standard form of words

 

I did ask and pay for a copy of the original credit agreement and did receive it back in 2004 when the debt was passed to Blair, Oliver and Scott. It is what has happened since then which is the problem. I'm just a bit confused as to who I'm writing to now and what I'm actually asking for. Ideally I was looking to settle but now it looks as if I should now withdraw my offers and write to BOS and Sainsburys and demand statements for the past 2 years? Don't know if there are any standard letters for this on the site

 

CCA - Consumer Credit Act

DCA - Debt Collection Agency (which I think these guys are - Blair, Oliver and Scott)

Plenty of info and advice plus FAQ's that will give you that info but JONCRIS seems to have what you are looking for....

[JonCris]

Suggest you deal with 1 thing at a time.

 

Stop paying now send your Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA) s78 (which I posted for you) Send your letter of dispute (which I have posted for you) together with your Subject Access Request (SAR) & start the ball in motion to get your money back.

 

Once that is achieved which shouldn't take too long then you worry about the money that's already been taken. If it was taken unlawfully (which it probably was) it's money in the bank

 

Read the FAQ's & the letters are all in the templates library

[Mike220359]

Further to post 5.

 

Jo that's an interesting point and one that I am going to pursue regarding an offloaded debt from barclaycard to Credit Solutions Ltd. Technically if they don't have the paperwork they may have obtained money from me unlawfully, if that is the case I intend to get my money back.

 

There's no doubt that I borrowed the money to deny that would be theft, what bothers me is the imposition of charges and interest on a loan that is not backed up by the paperwork. Complicated I know but one that I hope to focus upon.

 

Mike

[Mike220359]

Mel it looks as if Jon Chris has got it sussed for you. Follow his excellent advice.

 

One thing that really cheeses me off about this is that Blair et al are perfectly comfortable in the fact that they take money without the necessary documentation safe in the belief that jo (male of female) public know squat about the law and are just happy to get debt (and its' stigma) off their name. I'm sorry that is disgraceful and parasitic.

 

I'll get off the soap box now!

 

Mike

[100mel]

I posted some weeks ago concerning my problem with Sainsburys/Blair Oliver Scott summarised as follows

 

1. Debt passed to BOS back in 2004 without my knowledge whilst I was a carer for terminally ill parent. Full payment suddenly demanded. Default on credit file without my knowledge

2. Significant payments made and payment arrangement put in place but no statements issued for over 2 years despite repeated requests

3. Full and final settlement offer made - only response received "insufficient funds"

 

Following advice on this excellent site I issued request/payment for the missing statements, proof of the default etc and the debt even having been assigned in the first place to BOS. Absolutely no response received on any point. I stopped payments to BOS and have still heard nothing from them. I have also issued demand for repayment of the late payment and other such charges which were considerable. Again no response received. All letters go recorded. My question is what are my next moves in this situation? I don't wish to deny the debt and had hoped to reach some sort of full and final but it is difficult trying to communicate with organisations who just don't respond. My real wish is to get the default removed. Is there a way of doing this?

 

If I hadn't found this site I would not have got this far so thanks everyone

 

Mel

[bfb]

I have written in excess pf thirty letters to Blair Oliver and Scott (BOS in house ) and have yet to receive a reply !!!!

[100mel]

My problem is really what I can do about the default on my credit record (which I don't have a copy of and knew nothing about) and whether there is any way of getting it removed other than by them? Clearly, as they don't respond to anyone's correspondence it is a waste of time trying to communicate with them. I have already placed a note of correction on my Experian file but would like to do something about the default if it was possible

[JULI99]

See 'powerful Rogue - Default Notice Question' It Appears Sainsburys Do Not Keep Copies Of Default Notices.

 

I'm Hoping This Is The Case As I Would Like My Default Notice Wiping.

 

About To Start Court Proceedings Against Them Then Deal With My Default At A Later Date If It Is Not Removed.

[Giveitback]

Look under the copy of credit agreement threads too. GiB

[100mel]

I've checked some of the threads on copies of credit agreements - thanks for this I think in fact that I do have mine as I requested it 2 years ago. I did receive a photocopy of the original document plus a document entitled "credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act etc" so I assume that this is the document in question? I have also followed the threads on default notices and having heard nothing from Sainsburys in over a month having requested statements since the account was apparently transferred to BOS 2 years ago, now issued them with a time limit of 14 days to produce the default notice, deed of assignment , statements etc. Then, I don't see that I have any other option than to go OFT, Banking Ombudsman and anyone who will listen complaints route. Having checked the default date with Experian I am clear that I have never received anything. I have also separately issued demand for repayment of charges. Interestingly, I stopped payments to Blair, Oliver and Scott last month and have heard absolutely nothing from them either so perhaps they have actually been taking payments illegally!

[100mel]

Don't know if this is relevant but Sainsburys changed the number on my card when they issued a new card. The agreement would relate to first card. Both card numbers are still showing on Experian - one as satisfied and the other with the default

[mollington]

just one point the debt would never of been transferred to bos . Sainburys bank is bank of scotland , and always has been.

[100mel]

I have posted several times regarding my current problem with Sainsburys/Blair Oliver Scott etc. In summary events to date have been

 

1. extensive late payment charges applied to account in 2004 whilst I was caring for my terminally ill father

2. debt passed to Blair Oliver and Scott without my knowledge

3. usual campaign of harassment - letters, phone calls plus demands for payment

4. default on credit file registered entirely without my knowledge

5. substantial payments made to BOS and then payment plan but no statements on account since July 04 (i.e. last statement from sainsburys)

6. after death of my father - full and final offers made to BOS via me and via solicitor copied Sainsburys - no meaningful response received

7. following advice from this site I stopped the monthly payments, issued a demand for the charges which I could quantify from the statements and also issued a 14 day letter on the default following previous letters requesting proof of this. No communications and BOS never chased

8. at 9.05 this morning I get a telephone call from Sainsburys Customer Service (I had withdrawn permission for telephone contact but she thought I'd be so eager to know this good news!)

a) BOS will be happy to accept my offer for an amount I didn't actually make

b) they will refund 50% of the charges because of "all this stuff in the media" but they were legal at the time"

c) they will mark my credit file as "partially satisfied"

d) she apologised as correspondence had "got lost" and she had been in touch with BOS and told them to respond

e) she said I would be hearing from BOS in writing (after 26 letters to them!) this would be a first

 

My question is what to do next. Feeling is that they can't substantiate the default because they are so disorganised and I need to deal with this with complaints to OFT etc and complete on the threats in my letter? If I complain to OFT and Ombudsman do I have any valid complaint with Data Protection? I should also turn down the generous offer on the charges? In respect of full and final offers - not quite sure where I stand with these as I withdrew them in the light of other issues.

Grateful for all advice please

[100mel]

I have just received letters from Blair, Oliver, Scott and Sainsburys advising me that they will now accept my offer on payment (not an amount I ever offered), they will mark my credit file "partially satisfied" and refund half of the charges claimed in my recent letter

 

Can someone advise me how I should respond

 

I had withdrawn all offers to them anyway

 

1. I had written to them with a 14 day deadline concerning default on the file as they have repeatedly failed to provide the necessary proof of this or of debt being assigned

2. A subject access request has been sent for statements for the period July 04 - 06 i.e. when the debt was passed to BOS

 

It seems that these have prompted this response

 

Hope someone can advise me what to do next - please!

 

thanks

 

Mel

[jannercobbler]

you need to send them a CCA request, there is a template letter for this on the forum, This costs £1 and they have to comply with it, if they fail to send the paperwork within 12 WORKING days then the debt cannot be enforced until they do so. If they still fail 1 month AFTER the 12 working days have alapsed then they are committing an offence.

[100mel]

This has already been sent. My question was really as to whether I respond to the letters have been sent formally or ignore them and concentrate on forcing responses to my particular letters - CCA request, subject access etc, letter re default. Their letters refer to an offer of full and final settlement made earlier in the year before I discovered this website