Any ideas how I should respond to letter from DCA after CCA?

[sar011279]

I've just had a letter from Moorcroft re a HSBC account that I have just requested a CCA for. The letter reads;

 

Thank you for your request for a signed copy of the relevant agreement under the Consumer Credit Act. We will contact our client and request the relevant information and ask that it be provided as quickly as possible.

 

In the meantime however we believe that it may be of assistance to all parties if we also take this opportunity to ensure that any potential areas of dispute are addressed prior to any possible court action or further investigation. Please could you give an indication of the information you will be providing, when giving evidence to the court or providing information to the relevant statutory authorities in relation to the alleged subject matter of the account.

 

Please confirm whether, for example when making a statement of truth in connection with any court proceedings, you will be giving evidence as to whether or not you did not receive the goods/credit ordered.

 

Please could you provide this information by return. We believe that this is a simple request that will assist in ensuring that all possible areas of dispute are identified as quickly as possible and potential costs and delays kept to a minimum level.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Any ideas?????

[gizmo111]

Ignore it - it is your right to ask for a copy of the CCA you don't have to give a reason.

[tiglet]

That's right - don't incriminate yourself. When I have been asked why I want one, I've stated "because I have a legal right to ask for one and you have a legal obligation to supply one".

 

Soon shuts them up.

[sar011279]

OK thanks peeps, response I will send reads;

 

Thank you for your letter dated 16th April.

I am requesting a copy of the signed Credit Agreement as it is my legal right to do so. Any action that I choose, or choose not to take when this agreement is, or is not, supplied is, at this time, not of your concern.

Thank you for your letter, I hope to receive the requested documents shortly.

[kennyparkroad]

they are basically trying to get you to admit it by giving you that BS letter.

 

youve sent them the CCA they have got it (you have proof with that letter) you dont need to do anything else, just let the clock tick on, its up to them now.

[tiglet]

Exactly - they want you to get drawn on the issue - don't. You've made a legal request, they are legally obliged to fulfil it. I wouldn't bother sending the letter - but if they phone, use that as your response "I'm requesting my CCA because I am legally entitled to do so".

 

Continue in that vein until they get fed up and put the phone down - works for me!

[kennyparkroad]

i woulnd send anything, but if you are going to send something, send something like this

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxx

 

However, on the DATE YOU MADE CCA REQUEST I made a written request for a copy of the executed agreement under s77/78 CCA. This letter was sent by recorded delivery and signed for at your office on (insert dates if this is what you did).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

Please note that your company is now in default as this request was not complied with within 12 working days as prescribed by the CCA, (only put this in if applicable)

 

I now require that you provide me with a copy of the correct document, or your written acknowledgement that you are unable to do so, within 14 days of receipt of this letter.

 

Please also note that until such time as you do provide me with a true copy of this document, the agreement remains unenforceable and no payments will be made.

[sar011279]

Thanks guys, 12 days is not up get so will probably not respond and just sit tight for a bit.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Note also that the letter Moorcroft have sent is a standard one they send as a response to every CCA request.

 

I recently CCAd them, and they wrote (about a month after the 12 + 30 deadline) to say they couldn't provide the agreement. I've now informed them that I'm making a formal complaint to the OFT and ICO as they attempted to collect a debt without any proof of its existence, and processed my data without evidence of my consent to do so.

[gav2504]

Hi ,i recieved exactly the same letter from these people and at first thought s***, that was until i read on here that many other people had recieved the same as well. 2 weeks later another letter dropped through my door saying they had refered it back to original creditor. Dont panic..

[diskmandave]

Nobody's said it yet, is this a catalogue debt?

 

That's their standard response to a CCA request for a catalogue debt.

 

Everyone is rightly saying ignore it.

 

Regards, good luck, Dave.

[gav2504]

hi, my cca request was for a barclays overdraft, so perhaps the letter returned is a standard response to any debt.

[sar011279]

No it's a HSBC loan. Ok not wanting to sound stupid but I'm a tad confussed by this whole CCA thing and have a couple of questions I'd like to ask.

I've sent off the CCA request with another company and have not heard anything back and it's now outside the 12 working days, as I understand it they can't chase me for money on this agreement now as they have failed to supply the CA. Let's suppose that next week they send it to me, within the 30 days, do I then have to make payments? If they don't find it within the 30 days they can't collect on it at all without first going to court, yeah? - so let's assume they go to court, what timescale are we talking?, also as I had previously been making payments to the original finance company does this not stump my agruement of not paying, ie would a judge say you used to pay so acknowledged the debt then, why did you stop??

If, as I assume would happen in the instance of it going to court, the judge said I had to start paying again would I be liable for any court costs (the debt is over 5k), also would this count as a CCJ and thus make my currently unsecured debt something that, worst case sinario, the baliffs could come and seize property?

I am sorry if these are stupid questions that are answered elsewhere on the forum, if this is the case please point me in the right direction!

[sar011279]

quick bump!!!

[PriorityOne]

No it's a HSBC loan. Ok not wanting to sound stupid but I'm a tad confussed by this whole CCA thing and have a couple of questions I'd like to ask.

I've sent off the CCA request with another company and have not heard anything back and it's now outside the 12 working days, as I understand it they can't chase me for money on this agreement now as they have failed to supply the CA.

 

Correct.... they are in default of your request after 12 working days.

 

Let's suppose that next week they send it to me, within the 30 days, do I then have to make payments? If they don't find it within the 30 days they can't collect on it at all without first going to court, yeah? - so let's assume they go to court, what timescale are we talking?,

 

In practice, the timescales mean very little. A court will re-enforce an Agreement outside of these timeframes if a DCA/creditor comes up with one.... although the longer it takes them to produce it, the worse it looks for them.

 

also as I had previously been making payments to the original finance company does this not stump my agruement of not paying, ie would a judge say you used to pay so acknowledged the debt then, why did you stop??

 

You made a legal request for a CCA. If no CCA is forthcoming, then you are within your legal rights to withhold payment until it can be produced and re-enforced. A CCA is needed to have a debt re-enforced by a court... so non-production of it is a complete defence.... and this is your perfectly valid reason for withholding payment.

 

If, as I assume would happen in the instance of it going to court, the judge said I had to start paying again would I be liable for any court costs (the debt is over 5k), also would this count as a CCJ and thus make my currently unsecured debt something that, worst case sinario, the baliffs could come and seize property?

 

It's not as simple as the DCAs would have you believe. There are separate procedures to getting a CCJ and obtaining a court order to allow bailiffs to visit. Re. court costs... if they do come up with a properly executed CCA, then it's probably not worth fighting it in court. However, the majority of DCAs don't have an Agreement... and often try to pass off an application form as an Agreement to try and fool you. If you do get something back from them, come back on here and describe/scan it up for us.

 

I am sorry if these are stupid questions that are answered elsewhere on the forum, if this is the case please point me in the right direction!

 

Not stupid at all....

 

[Vampyra]

I had a similar letter from a DCA saying that they wanted me to supply proof of payment and any other documents in support of my application for a CCA. I'm ignoring that. Best of luck with it!

[sar011279]

Thank you so much, you've eased my mind no end. Now next question (sorry) one of my friends debts is currently with mendip debt collection?, on the first contact that they made with her last month she sent them a CCA to which they haven't replied but have cashed the £1 cheque but also in the same envelope she sent an income and expenditure form explaining that she is having financial difficulties and offering a 'token' payment which she also sent with the letter. Has she blown her chances? or can she agrue that she was intimidated by the letter from the DCA and hence made a small payment?

[PriorityOne]

The CCA request still stands.... If Mendip don't comply, then your friend is within her rights to state that no further payments will be forthcoming until they can substantiate ownership of the debt.

 

[spiritgirl59]

Hi there

 

Those were not silly questions - in fact I had been thinking and wondering exactly the same things as you, so your thread and the replies have been a great help to me too!

 

A big thanks for raising those questions, and to all who have answered your thread.

 

Best wishes

Spiritgirl

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

My advice is only send a CCA if you are being chased either by the creditor or their agents & you want to put the brakes on.

 

Apart from the above circumstances I would suggest sending a SAR requesting ALL of the data they hold including a true copy of a properly executed agreement. If they don't produce it after that then send a CCA to bring any collection attempt to an end

[PriorityOne]

No problem....

 

I paid a DCA for 4 years before finding this site and sending a CCA request. I have heard nothing from them since... and their Standing Order was cancelled 3 months ago.

[sar011279]

You guys are all so helpful, thank you loads to everyone who's replied. Last question, at the moment anyway, I've read in a lot of other threads about debts being passed back to the original creditor as a result of no CCA. Will the original creditor then just sell the debt to another DCA, hense 'all start again' with another CCA request or does the creditor just 'give up', either first time or eventually, thus meaning debt free a lot sooner than anticipated or is this just wishful thinking?, also ( I know I said only one more question!) I assume that a CCA can be used towards anyone you owe money to or claims you owe them money, so therefore if a credit card that is NOT been passed to a DCA and has up to date payments and they can't provide the CCA then do the same rules apply?

[PriorityOne]

You guys are all so helpful, thank you loads to everyone who's replied. Last question, at the moment anyway, I've read in a lot of other threads about debts being passed back to the original creditor as a result of no CCA. Will the original creditor then just sell the debt to another DCA, hense 'all start again' with another CCA request or does the creditor just 'give up', either first time or eventually, thus meaning debt free a lot sooner than anticipated or is this just wishful thinking?,

 

When an account is passed back to the original creditor, it is because it's not been sold to a DCA. In this case, the DCA is only collecting on behalf of the creditor and all payments go to the creditor.... In a lot of cases, the DCA is owned by the creditor anyway... but of course, we are not supposed to know that. Thanks to this site however... now we do !

 

If the account does go back to the original creditor, then the normal procedure is to send a SAR to them in order to re-claim any unlawful charges to reduce the balanced outstanding. Negotiations can then be made to repay the true balance.... so you are not free of it, sorry .

 

also ( I know I said only one more question!) I assume that a CCA can be used towards anyone you owe money to or claims you owe them money, only if it's a form of borrowing covered by the Consumer Credit Act, 1974 so therefore if a credit card that is NOT been passed to a DCA and has up to date payments and they can't provide the CCA then do the same rules apply?

 

In theory...yes. Although there are some folk on this site who will take a moral stance on issuing a CCA to a creditor, if that creditor cannot comply with your CCA request... then they can no longer pursue you for payment.

 

 

[sar011279]

Right so I think I've got it now,

 

If the account does go back to the original creditor, then the normal procedure is to send a SAR to them in order to re-claim any unlawful charges to reduce the balanced outstanding.

I've pretty much claimed back all charges now anyway and have all statements etc so don't think I'll need a SAR.

Negotiations can then be made to repay the true balance.... so you are not free of it, sorry

So I still have to pay the original creditor ( if it gets passed back) even if they too can't supply a CCA?

[PriorityOne]

So I still have to pay the original creditor ( if it gets passed back) even if they too can't supply a CCA?

 

There are moral arguments over this one.....

 

If it goes back to the original creditor, then you have to pay the original creditor. .... However, if you send a CCA request to the original creditor and they cannot comply either... then you are within your rights to withhold payment to them as well.

 

Unless it's an old account though.... they will probably have it.