djdave vs Cabot

[djdave]

Can I join the fan club?

 

My first thread on this forum was http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/72730-scotcall-ignored-cca-request.html , and since Trading Standards are now busy with ScotCall I thought I'd turn my attention to our good friends in Kings Hill.

 

Today I officially became a Cabot fan, receving this letter:

 

Dear djdave,

 

We have today contacted Barclaycard to order a copy of the original agreement (what? you didn't have it when you started chasing me? naughty naughty!) and hope to resolve this matter swiftly.

 

Although we anticipate a reply within the next 21 days (odd, the CCA says 12 working days) it can take up to 8 weeks if the information we require has been archived, and we therefore request your understanding in this matter (oh I understand alright. I just hope Trading Standards and the Financial Services Ombudsman are as understanding)

We are assisting you in providing a copy of the agreement but please note that we are not obliged to as we are not the creditor (my dear Cabot, you really need to read the CCA)

The current balance on your account currently (nice grammar, using current twice!) stands at £xxxx.xx, which includes accrued interest of £xxx.xx (I wasn't aware that Cabot could charge interest. Strange. That'll go in the complaint), and we have received no payments on the account. If you wish for a full statement of account prior to the date Cabot Financial purchased the account we suggest you contact Barclaycard directly (already done, I've SARd them as you can bet your life there's unlawful charges on my account)

Finally, we refute your suggestion that non-compliance with your request would be a criminal offence; the agreement would merely be unenforceable (again, Cabot really need to brush up on the CCA)

Yours sincerely,

Emma (I write in crayon) Robertson

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited is licenced under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Not for much longer if everybody complains about their shoddy and criminal behaviour!)

Well, the clock is ticking. Let's see what the postman brings!

[Seahorse]

HOHO. Another one where they apparently aren't trying to argue the CCA doesn't apply to them.

 

Welcome officially to the Club!!!!

[Jeff2000]

Hello dj,

 

 

Just subscribing!

 

Watching with interest!

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

[djdave]

I spoke to Trading Standards about my Scotcall complaint today. When I told the guy what was in the Cabot letter he laughed. A lot.

 

Once they default, I'll be adding them to the complaint.

[Jeff2000]

I spoke to Trading Standards about my Scotcall complaint today. When I told the guy what was in the Cabot letter he laughed. A lot.

 

Once they default, I'll be adding them to the complaint.

 

 

Hi,

 

Which bit did he laugh at!!?:grin::grin::grin:

 

 

Jeff.

[djdave]

Their "8 week" timeframe and their denial that non-compliance would be an offence

[Jeff2000]

Their "8 week" timeframe and their denial that non-compliance would be an offence

 

 

Hi,

 

Ah, yes the old "it isn't an offence" bit!

 

 

You would think that they have never read the CCA 1974!

 

 

Jeff.

[djdave]

It's nearly Criminal Offence Day!

 

Clintons are missing a gap in the market...

[Jeff2000]

It's nearly Criminal Offence Day!

 

Clintons are missing a gap in the market...

 

 

A very lucrative gap! This could be every day of the year!!!:grin:

 

 

Jeff.

[jaxads]

Can you imagine it ........... "Happy Criminal Offence Day" cards blue-taked around their offices.. We'd have to be careful not to sign the card with our signature though, just in case

 

We could send them balloons, banners and everything!!!!!

 

I cannot stop laughing now just thinking about it!!!! :D

[djdave]

Well today I received another letter from Scotcall, saying that "despite numerous attempts" to resolve this I still haven't coughed up.

 

Trading Standards and OFT duly notified

 

I've sent Scotcall this:

 

Scotcall Debt Collecting Services

SpectrumBuilding

3rd Floor

55 Blythswood Street

Glasgow

G2 7AT

 

17 May 2007

 

By recorded delivery, reference DL xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Your reference: xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 14th May 2007. I do not acknowledge any debt to your company or its clients.

 

As you will be aware, I wrote to you on 13th February requesting a copy of the agreement under which you believe this debt exists. This is my right under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and Section 189 clarifies that you are under an obligation to comply whether or not you are the original creditor.

 

This letter included the Statutory Fee, and was signed for by L. Hamilton on February 16th.

 

To date I have received no reply. As you will know, Section 78 Subsection 6 of the Act states:

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the

agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

You will surely also be aware that guidelines published by the Office of Fair Trading preclude you from taking any collection action while the debt is in default or dispute.

 

As I do not recognise this debt, I have also sent a request to Cabot Financial asking for a copy of the agreement. They have indicated that they are attempting to obtain a copy of the agreement from Barclaycard, but as yet have not received a copy.

 

Therefore I was extremely disappointed to receive you recent letter demanding payment. I would be most interested in knowing more details about the “numerous attempts to resolve this matter” to which you refer, and would like your explanation as to why you are continuing to pursue this matter when you have ignored my legitimate attempts to clarify whether the alleged debt exists.

 

I have passed this matter to my local Trading Standards service, and will be forwarding them a copy of your latest letter. I shall also be passing details of this case to the Office of Fair Trading as I believe you are in breach of their guidelines on Unfair Practices in Debt Collection.

 

You should treat this letter as a formal complaint, and follow the procedures laid down by the Financial Ombudsman Service for dealing with complaints. Should I not receive a satisfactory reply, or should I receive no reply at all within 14 days, I shall pass this matter to the FOS for their investigation.

 

I look forward to your prompt reply.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Idiots!

[djdave]

Scotcall have given up now but I do have one interesting question.

 

Cabot claim to be chasing up the CCA, but were able to send me a copy of the Notice of Assignment. It seemed odd at the time that it was undated, yet was printed on headed Barclaycard paper which was produced in June 05 - Cabot took over this alleged debt long before that.

 

Well now the poor chap from DHL has delivered me a box containing the results of the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) I sent Barclaycard. It's amazingly detailed, and when I've finished with it will keep the local recycling centre busy for weeks.

 

However, there's no mention of this Notice of Assignment. None whatsoever.

 

A cynical chap might suggest that Cabot knocked it up themselves. Now of course I would never think such a thing, but what would be the implications if they had?

 

As an aside, there's no executed agreement in Barclaycard's reply, so good luck to Cabot getting their hands on one...

[ODC]

A cynical chap might suggest that Cabot knocked it up themselves. Now of course I would never think such a thing, but what would be the implications if they had?

 

As an aside, there's no executed agreement in Barclaycard's reply, so good luck to Cabot getting their hands on one...

 

Call me a cynical chappie if you must. Two points sorry three points

 

1. It is not unheard of for the DCAs to have supplies of Financial Institutions notepaper:o

 

2. Check it very carefully it may be a cut and paste jobbie. Check in particular the ink colouring and typeface used. Is the typeface Barclays norm or more like Crapbots

 

3. No date on it. Cupid Stunts

[ScarletPimpernel]

However, there's no mention of this Notice of Assignment. None whatsoever.

 

A cynical chap might suggest that Cabot knocked it up themselves. Now of course I would never think such a thing, but what would be the implications if they had?

 

 

I am currently awaiting delivery of a Notice of Assignment from one of the lickspittle DCAs Cabot use. The bank in question seem to have remarkable foresight, since they apparently managed to send a letter in 2000 to a company that did not exist until 2007!

 

The implication could be that Insp Knacker might be minded to view such documentation as part of an attempt to obtain money by deception (or conspiracy thereto).

 

On a serious note, I cannot believe that producing backdated documents in this way can be regarded as a legitimate business practice. Otherwise, people may be tempted to produce a few backdated invoices to Cabot for 'services rendered', and demand payment of them.

[ODC]

I am currently awaiting delivery of a Notice of Assignment from one of the lickspittle DCAs Cabot use. The bank in question seem to have remarkable foresight, since they apparently managed to send a letter in 2000 to a company that did not exist until 2007!Really does show what a crowd of Merchant Bankers we are dealing with. They were so used to intimidation and bullying that they assume everyone will roll over at the first threat. Not now my friends we are educated unlike your staff in Threat Central

 

The implication could be that Insp Knacker might be minded to view such documentation as part of an attempt to obtain money by deception (or conspiracy thereto). A fellow Private Eye readed if Im not mistaken,

 

On a serious note, I cannot believe that producing backdated documents in this way can be regarded as a legitimate business practice. Otherwise, people may be tempted to produce a few backdated invoices to Cabot for 'services rendered', and demand payment of them.

 

I think the OFT and TS would take a dim view of such alleged maladministration

[rory32]

Notice of Assignment:

 

If the notice includes an amount demanded that is incorrect it renders the notice legally invalid (e.g. unlawful charges or DCA admin/collection charges).

Even if the amount doesn't include charges but is misstated it is still invalid.

If the date is incorrect it is legally invalid (i.e. does not tie in with the deed of assignment - the execution of assignment should be the same as the date shown on the notice).

The case that supports this is W.F.Harrison & Co Ltd v Burke [1956] 1 WLR 419

[ODC]

Oh dear yet another big stick to beat the DCAs with. By the time you have finished Rory there will be no such thing as a nasty DCA. Be carefull though or Ruthless may put you on the same hit list as me. Apparently I have upset their Furher

 

 

Am I bovverred

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah

[djdave]

Notice of Assignment:

 

If the notice includes an amount demanded that is incorrect it renders the notice legally invalid (e.g. unlawful charges or DCA admin/collection charges).

Even if the amount doesn't include charges but is misstated it is still invalid.

If the date is incorrect it is legally invalid (i.e. does not tie in with the deed of assignment - the execution of assignment should be the same as the date shown on the notice).

The case that supports this is W.F.Harrison & Co Ltd v Burke [1956] 1 WLR 419

That's very useful to know. Very useful indeed

[djdave]

Right then. No CCA from these jokers, so I'm making the next move. I've composed the following letter and would appreciate your thoughts and suggestions:

 

Cabot Financial Europe Ltd

10 Kings Hill Avenue

Kings Hill

West Malling

ME19 4LT

By recorded delivery, reference DL xxxxxxxxx

22 June 2007

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Your reference: xxx/xxxxxxxx

 

As you will recall, I wrote to you on 2nd April requesting a true copy of any alleged agreement which you are relying upon when claiming that a debt exists between myself and your company.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not acknowledge any debt to you or your clients.

 

You will be aware of your obligations under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to supply these documents within the statutory timeframe, although in your letter of 16th April you claim that you are not obliged to supply these documents are you are not the creditor.

 

I would draw your attention to Section 189 of the Act which states:

 

“creditor” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor;

Also you letter refutes my suggestion that non-compliance would be an offence.

 

I would like to remind you of the text of Section 78, specifically subsection 6 which states:

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

This time period has elapsed, and you have failed to supply the documentation requested. It is apparent that you were never in possession of the necessary documents when you started chasing me for this alleged debt.

 

You have now committed an offence under the Consumer Credit Act, which I intend to report to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

I now require the following to be auctioned immediately:

 

1) The return of my £1 payment in respect of the statutory fee.

 

 

2) You must contact all third parties with whom you have shared my data (including but not limited to credit reference agencies, and other companies within the Cabot Financial group) to instruct them to destroy and cease processing my personal data with respect to this account.

 

 

3) Pass the enclosed Data Subject Notice to your data controller for their immediate attention. This notice requires you to cease processing my personal data in accordance with Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1988 (The right to prevent processing causing damage or distress). I would remind you that you have, by statute, 21 days to comply with this Notice OR to indicate the extent to which you intend to comply (if at all) and explaining the parts of the Notice you consider to be unjustified.

 

 

4) Confirm to me, in writing, that you have completed these steps.

 

 

5) Send me written confirmation that you will be taking no further action regarding this account.

Should I not receive a satisfactory reply within fourteen (14) days, or should I receive no reply at all, I shall bring this matter to the attention of:

 

• The Financial Ombudsman Service

• The Office of Fair Trading

• Trading Standards

• The Information Commissioner’s Office

• Consumer Groups

• Local and National Media

 

I also reserve to right to commence proceedings in the County Court for breach of the Consumer Credit Act and the Data Protection Act.

 

I look forward to your prompt response.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Me

Enclosed:

Data Subject Notice

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DATA SUBJECT NOTICE PERSUANT TO SECTION 10 OF THE DATA PROTECTION ACT 1988

 

For the attention of:

The Data Controller, Cabot Financial Europe Ltd, Kings Hill, WEST MALLING, Kent, ME19 4LT

 

With regard to:

Me, My House, Here, My Postcode

 

This is a Statutory Notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act requiring you to cease storing and processing all personal data relating to myself, and to cease immediately the sharing of such data with any third parties.

 

Furthermore you should contact any third with whom you have shared my data (including but not limited to credit reference agencies, and other companies within the Cabot Financial group) to instruct them to destroy and cease processing my personal data.

 

I believe the processing of my data to be unjustified within the definitions of the Data Protection Act as the information you are holding is incorrect and likely to cause me substantial damage and distress, and that damage or distress would be unwarranted.

 

You are reminded that, as data controller, you have by statute twenty-one (21) days in which to give written notice EITHER that you have complied with this Notice, or intend to comply with it; OR the extent to which you intend to comply with this Notice (if at all) and explaining the parts of the Notice which you considered unjustified in any way.

 

Dated 22nd June, 2007.

 

 

 

Me

Sent recorded delivery, reference number DL xxxxxxxxxxGB

 

 

Any good?

[djdave]

Shameless self-bump, I'd appreciate any comments on the above letter before I post it

[djdave]

Just an update, such as it is, before I go on holiday. I sent the above letter and have had two seperate "Please bear with us while we investigate your complaint" replies.

 

So I've sent them this:

 

Jane Rodemark

Customer Assurance Team Leader

Cabot Financial Europe Ltd

10 Kings Hill Avenue

Kings Hill

West Malling

ME19 4LT

 

By recorded delivery, reference DL xxxxxxxxxGB

 

6 August 2007

 

Dear Ms Rodemark,

 

Your reference: Xxxxxxxxx

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not acknowledge any debt to you or your clients.

 

You will recall that you are in receipt of a Data Subject Notice dated 25th June 2007, a copy of which is enclosed for your ease of reference.

 

This was signed for on the 26th June since when I have received two letters from you, both stating your intention to deal with this within 10 working days. In both cases the 10 working days have elapsed without resolution.

 

I would draw your attention to Section 10, subsection 3 of the Data Protection Act 1988 (Data Protection Act) which states:

 

(3) The data controller must within twenty-one days of receiving a notice under subsection (1) ("the data subject notice") give the individual who gave it a written notice-

 

 

(a) stating that he has complied or intends to comply with the data subject notice, or

 

 

(b) stating his reasons for regarding the data subject notice as to any extent unjustified and the extent (if any) to which he has complied or intends to comply with it.

While I can appreciate that you may feel that you need time to investigate this matter, you will equally appreciate that the DPA is clear in its timescale, and that you have now exceeded this statutory period.

 

You have therefore committed an offence under the DPA, which I intend to report to the Information Commissioner’s Office and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

I shall also be reporting your breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to the FOS as you have failed to furnish me with a copy of an executed agreement, thus committing a separate offence.

 

Your flagrant disregard for two pieces of legislation at the core of your business lead me to question your suitability to hold a Consumer Credit Licence, and I shall be making my concerns known to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

I will be on holiday until August 12th. On my return I expect to find your written acknowledgement that you have acted on my Data Subject Notice, otherwise I shall commence action with no further warning through the County Court for breach of the Data Protection Act, plus costs.

 

I look forward to your prompt response.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Let's see what (if anything) they say to that!

[ODC]

Jane Rodemark funny name that:eek:

 

Guess while you are enjoying a few beers on hols Jane's week will be ruined. You have put the onus on her and trust her name will feature on any court papers you may issue

 

Lucky Mark

[Seahorse]

I think she's taken over from Patrick Hill. I wonder if he got promoted, demoted, or shifted sideways?

[djdave]

Well, all that was waiting for me on my return was another letter explaining that they were invistigating and hoped to have an outcome within 10 days.

 

Bless 'em.

 

Now I've reported them to the OFT (below) and will be starting court proceedings next week.

 

Consumer Credit Licensing

Room 1C/5

Office of Fair Trading

Fleetbank House

2-6 Salisbury Square

London

EC4Y 8JX

 

16 August 2007

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

I would like to bring to your attention my experience with Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, who in my opinion have shown themselves unfit to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.

 

They initially contacted me through a third party called Scotcall Debt Collection back in February of this year, claiming that I owed them £xxxx.

 

Having no idea what this could be, I contacted Scotcall and asked for copies of the relevant documentation.

 

Scotcall referred me back to Cabot, who I also noticed had placed a default on my credit file. I therefore contacted Cabot asking for a copy of the paperwork they were relying on. This was back on April 2nd, since when all I have received from them are several letters asking for my understanding while they investigate.

 

As you will know, the Consumer Credit Act is clear that a creditor has 12 working days to supply a copy of an agreement before they are in default. If the default continues for more than a month they commit an offence. I have brought this to Cabot’s attention but they have denied any wrongdoing.

 

They did however send me what they claimed to be a Notice of Assignment which would have been sent from Barclaycard, the original creditor. This is clearly a forgery, not even a conjectured reconstruction, as Barclaycard do not have any record of sending such a document. This I believe is tantamount to fraud.

 

As it is clearly obvious that Cabot have been attempting to collect a non-existent debt with no paperwork to back up their claim, I sent them on June 25th a Data Subject Notice requiring them to cease processing my personal data, and to instruct third parties (ie the Credit Reference Agencies) to rectify my data.

 

The Data Protection Act is clear that a data controller has 21 days to respond to such a notice, and yet all I have had from Cabot, despite me sending them a reminder, is a letter again asking me to remain patient while they investigate.

 

I have had to resort to threatening them with legal action, and will have no hesitation in bringing proceedings in the County Court to force them to comply with the Data Protection Act.

 

I believe that their behaviour, including their flagrant disregard for two pieces of legislation at the core of their business, calls into question their suitability to hold a Consumer Credit Licence, and I would be most interested in your comments.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact me should you require any further information, including copies of any correspondence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[pmhcfc]

Well, all that was waiting for me on my return was another letter explaining that they were invistigating and hoped to have an outcome within 10 days.

 

Bless 'em.

 

Now I've reported them to the OFT (below) and will be starting court proceedings next week.

 

 

Super stuff !!