lloyds and overdraft are they right?

[kinkysloth]

Hi all, glad i found this site. My question is can you claim back bank charges if you already have an overdraft? i have sent in my claim and have just recieved a letter back from lloyds rejecting my claim because i have an overdraft. They say the default charges are for people who break an agreement and because i went over my agreed overdraft limit they say it doesn't apply.

can anyone shed any light on this please? many thanks

[nicsussex]

The simpy answer to your question is yes.

 

However need to know a little bit more about how you have worded your 'claim' ( I assume that it is not this just yet) and please let us know the ammounts involved and the content of the letters you have sent

[kinkysloth]

Hi thanks for your reply, i used the standard letter from the BBC website to claim back and the amounts over 6 years on two accounts ammounted to 639 on one and 117 on the other account. I think i have recieved a standard letter back for both accounts and they are both worded the same.

here is a copy of the letter is sent, i have sent one each for both accounts.

thanks for your help.

Due to recent media coverage on bank charges I now believe that you, Lloyds TSB charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.

I believe that your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79 along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss.

Furthermore if you fail to comply with this letter, I request without further notice a breakdown and proof of all costs involved, in regards to your actual or liquidated losses involved in any breach of contract to which these charges relate with yourselves, and that these charges reflect your true costs in relation to the said charges, and are proportionate to the charges levied on my account as defined in Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e).

Therefore I require you to refund me a total of £107.16 representing the total, unlawful amount charged during the last 6 years.

I hereby give you 14 days to refund the charges back on to my account. For the avoidance of doubt, if this is not done within 14 days, I will commence my claim in the courts without further warning. This action will inevitably involve you in additional costs.

I also hereby request a detailed report of which clause in your terms and conditions each charge has been applied against.

Yours sincerely,

[nicsussex]

Can you please post the reply you received particularly the bit about you having an overdraft and therefore does not apply.

[kinkysloth]

Hi and thanks, i just typed it out and then went and lost it all. Here goes again, this is the letter i recieved back. only the salient points this time though:

like any business we do make a charge for some of our extra services. When customers don't have enough in their accounts to cover a payment, this always means extra work - and it has to happen quickly. We have to agree to make the payment by setting up or increasing an overdraft, or tell customers we can't agree it. We feel it's fair to charge for this service.

of course it's only fair too, that we're completely open about any charged for services before you might need them. That's why we take care to give every new customer the latest guide to our charges. You can also get up to date details about fees and borrowing rates at all our branches, through our helpline and our website.

just as importantly, we do everything we can to help our customers avoid these charges.

if you know a payment is going to take you over your agreed limit, you're welcome to see if there's anything we can do.

the office of fair trading has published new guidlines on credit card default charges. We're still talking it through with them, but the important point is that the guidelines are about 'default' charges that people pay when they break an agreement with us. this doesn't apply to your charges as these were for dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit. They are not default charges because you have not broken your agreement. They are our prices for the service we provide in these situations.

I do hope you can see that we make our charging system as fair as possible - and why i can't agree to cancel your charges.

 

This is the bulk of the letter, i don't understand why they talk about cedit card charges, and it seems very conveluted and does not really adress anything.

I believe that i now have to take them to small claims court? I appreciate any help or advice.

Thanks again.

[nicsussex]

All perfectly standard i'm afaris - proceed with LBA - here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-3-letter-before-action.html

[kinkysloth]

hi, thanks for the advice. i'll get on to it. I have just recieved more charges as well, do you think it would be ok for me to send off the ammended ones?

thanks again

[curlychic]

hi, thanks for the advice. i'll get on to it. I have just recieved more charges as well, do you think it would be ok for me to send off the ammended ones? (YES)

thanks again

 

 

XxXxX

[kinkysloth]

Hi Curlychic, thanks for the reply and the happy face; banks should use them!