Claiming back Baillifs charges

[jackburton]

Hi,

 

I had a visit from the Baillifs regarding unpaid Council Tax.

 

THis was the first visit and I refused to let the Bailif into the house and did not sign a thing.

 

I later paid up the full amount plus the costs over the phone.

 

As I've learnt from reading on here the most they can charge for the first visit is £24.50 if they do not get a levy/walking possession agreement.

 

I've got the court costs from the council ~£80.

 

Basically they have charged me £222 too much..

 

Now as I know exactly how much the council tax debt was, the court costs, the first baillif visit fee and the credit card charge, can I just proceed straight to a LBA for a refund of the costs? Or should I request in writing details of what the false charges are for.

 

According to the council who has online access to the Baillifs website, the case notes show a levy made and walking possession order signed... This is truely false and I've asked the Council to chase this as the document would contain forged information and signatures.

 

Any advise is very gratfully received?

[Clandava]

Only thing I can think of is that they have levied on your car? But, i'd have thought they'd have had to put notification through your letterbox to support this.

Good luck with claiming back the charges.

Had a similar incident, bailiffs put notification through my door stating I owed them £256.33 + costs. I contacted the council, the debt amount was £102.88 and sent letters to both the council and bailiff company asking them to explain the charges. I received a second letter (through the royal mail, not handdelivered) stating that I needed to make a payment arrangement for £143.88 (that cost of the debt plus 2 visits).... the council took the debt back as I stated I was unwilling to deal with the bailiffs considering they'd attempted to unlawfully charge me additional costs that weren't due on the account.

Debt now back with the council and all the bailiff charges removed, only had original debt amount to pay, but lodged a complaint with the council about the bailiff and their charges.

 

 

[jackburton]

Thanks for your reply.

 

The only thing they shoved through the letter box was that to contact a mobile number or they would come back with the intention of removing goods..

 

No sign of Walking Possession or anything to indicate something similar.

 

2 car on the driveway at the time. One was a friends and the other was my lease car so they'd not be able to have any claim on that as I'm not the regsitered owner or the registered keeper.

 

I'm trying to complain to the council but after an initial response I've had nothing.

 

it looks like it needs to go through the official complaints procedure.

[Clandava]

Good luck, I'm sure someone on here will be able to tell you the best way to go about claiming it back

[tiglet]

First thing you need to do is write to the bailiffs head office, cc-ing in the council, stating the account is in dispute as you do not believe the charges to be accurate and that you expect no further action to be taken until this situation is resolved. Ask them to provide a full breakdown of costs, including what the fee consists of (showing appropriate receipts if applicable), when they visited, the name of the certified bailiff and the court at which he was certified.

 

Give them 14 days to provide thsi information or advise them you will report the matter to both the court which issued the liability order and the local government ombudsman.

[jackburton]

Thanks Tiglet, I will start the course of action up.

 

Unfortunately, I've already paid in full so I now need to claim the costs back... so asking to hold any action will not really help.

 

Basically, from the bailiffs records, they've said they attended my house on 22nd March, They did not..

 

Also, they have levied on a car which is not mine and charged me levy costs for it.

 

Total costs wew £220 when it should have been £24.50.

[jackburton]

Just one final point..

 

From the councils email, the bailiffs said that goods were seized, they have basically said they levy (which I guess means seized) the car.

 

Does this mean that they would have to physically take the car away?

 

If they did not take it would they have to get us to sign a Walking Possession agreement to leave the car there?

 

The reason I'm asking as that the bailiffs has already agreed that a Walking Possession agreement was NOT signed (despite them saying earlier it was) and are refunding us this charge.. (£11)...

 

Thanks

[tiglet]

OK sweetie, then you need to send a LBA to the bailiffs to reclaim your charges. It's the same principal, but advising them that unless they provide the evidence or refund your costs, within 14 days you will start a small claims court action against them.

 

pm me or post letter here if you need any advice about doing this.

[jackburton]

Thanks Tiglet,

 

Here's my LBA letter

 

Alexanders Certified Bailiffs

Westmead House

Westmead Road

Sutton

SM1 4JH

 

 

Thursday, 19 April 2007

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Council Tax Account Number: XXXXXX

 

 

My request

 

I am writing to request the refund of the false charges you have levied from me during your only visit to my house on the 5th April.

 

 

I have received from Waverley Borough Council a breakdown of the costs that you have wrongly charged and you have claimed for the following which are false claims;

 

• A visit on the 22nd March in which you claim you got no answer
  
• A levy (seizure) on a vehicle that I am neither the registered owner of or the registered keeper.
  
• A levy of the above (2.) when no vehicle was actually removed.
  
• A signed walking possession agreement

According to my communications with Waverley Borough Council , you have already agreed subsequently that a walking possession agreement was never signed and are already in the process of refunding this cost (£11). This therefore means you have already admitted to falsifying the claim. Based on this fact, you cannot charge levy costs because no goods were removed, no entrance to the property was granted and the vehicle in question is not mine.

 

I calculate that you have taken £298.26.

 

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming.

 

I require repayment in full of this money or evidence supporting your charges.

 

If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a complaint to Waverley Borough Council and the Association of Civil Enforcement Agents (ACEA).

 

 

And this is my schedule

 

Claimed costs by Alexanders Ltd

Description of charge Charge £

Council Tax Charge 994.00

Summons costs 63.00

Liability Order 20.00

First Visit Cost 24.50

Levy 53.00

Walking Possession Agreement 11.00

Enforcement Fee 220.00

Card Handling Fee 69.33

 

Total 1454.83

 

Actual Costs owed to Alexanders Ltd

Description of charge Charge £

Council Tax Charge 994.00

Summons costs 63.00

Liability Order 20.00

First Visit Cost (5th April 07) 24.50

Card Handling Fee 55.08

 

Total 1156.58

Total of costs overclaims 298.26

 

Please can you let me know if this should be acceptable..?

 

Many thanks.

[Guest Herbie]

The letter seem fine to me, however you appear to be calculating the card fee at 5%. The majority of Contracts provide for a card fee of 3%

 

The overall amount that you have paid is £1101.50

I would include on the letter "Card fee @ 3% £33.04 , and let them come back to complain. The total amount therefore that you should be asking for is £320.29

 

Just a small final note, I would be inclined to only give until close of business next friday, ie: 8 days for payment.

[jackburton]

The letter seem fine to me, however you appear to be calculating the card fee at 5%. The majority of Contracts provide for a card fee of 3%

 

The overall amount that you have paid is £1101.50

I would include on the letter "Card fee @ 3% £33.04 , and let them come back to complain. The total amount therefore that you should be asking for is £320.29

 

Just a small final note, I would be inclined to only give until close of business next friday, ie: 8 days for payment.

 

 

Thanks for you reply, I'll update the card fee..

 

Why only allow them 8 days, is this a reasonable time to allow then?

[tiglet]

It's basically fine, but I would include the following paragraph:

 

"If you believe the charges I have incurred to be legitimate, I would ask you to provide the name of the bailiff, the court at which he was certified, the date you believe the visit took place and what the fee consists of (please provide receipts where necessary)."

 

This can show the court later that although you strongly repuduiate these fees, you have given the bailiffs an opportunity to prove they are lawful before you commenced action - it will look good if it has to go in front of a judge, basically.

[tiglet]

I would personally allow 14 days - it again would show a judge that you have been reasonable in allowing them sufficient time to investigate - you can state 7 days, but IMO, 14 would look better.

[Guest Herbie]

TIGLET

 

 

i quite agree.

[jackburton]

Thanks, you two have been absolute stars..

 

I'll post tomorrow via recorded and let you know how it goes.

 

Council are sitting on the fence on this one.

 

but from their last email to me, it appears they are starting to get a little suspicious on what's happend.

[tiglet]

They are responsible for the bailiffs and should look into it for you - if no joy, threaten them with the local government ombudsamn.

 

And you are more than welcome - let us know how you get on.

[jackburton]

Letter is away today (recorded delivery).

 

Will forward copy to the council on Monday via email and get them to apply pressure as well.

[jackburton]

Ok, it's been 4 days since they got the letter and I asked the council the persue this.

 

Should I chase the council or just sit back and wait for the 14 days to expire and start the MCOL?

 

Thanks

[tiglet]

Wait the 14 days you gave them (plus two to allow for postage). They may take you right up to the wire on this, but it's a matter of showing that you ahve been fair, even if they ahve not.

 

Then, yes, start your claim. But also advise the local government ombudsman and your local councillor who will bring pressure to bear on the council.

[tiglet]

Oh, and report the bailiffs company to the magistrates court.

[jackburton]

Magistrates or County Court.

 

I've checked the offending Bailiff with Herbie and he got his cert from the County Court?

 

Thanks

[tiglet]

In that case, the county court.

[jackburton]

Ok, I've had absolutely no response from the Baillif company and no response from the Council, 14 days runs out tomorrow.

 

Therefore, it looks like I'll be proceeding with Court Claim. Any advice on how to summarise the details in my (LBA) letter so that it fits in the MCOL website..

 

Also, should I know inform the council that I'll be raising the issue with the local council ombusman?

 

Thanks.

[tiglet]

Well, after the post has arrived tomorrow (if there's no response in there) submit a complaint to the following:

 

1. Your local councillor

2. The local government ombudsman

3. The county court who certified the bailiff

4. The magistrates court who granted the liability oredre

5. Any trade associations the bailiff belongs to (pm me the company name and I will check for you)

 

Then sit back and wait for all of the above to do their job and get back to you.

[jackburton]

Thanks Tiglet,

 

Ok, so at this stage I should hold on the MCOL claim?