My Mortgage Fees Were Refunded!!!!!!!!

[thunderpuss2k]

What's a "vacating fee". Are they charging for you to move out of your own home or are they "vacating" an agreement?

 

Absolutely no idea. Just says 'Vacating fee: £150.00'.

 

Reckon we've just discovered a new stealth charge?

[thunderpuss2k]

Silly me, I knew I should have looked on the Interweb first

 

From Birmingham Midshires website..

 

"Vacating Fee: £150

This fee covers the administration work involved in closing your mortgage account and processing any legal and title documentation when you redeem your mortgage. The amount will be included in your final settlement figure.

Please note - we will not charge this fee for customers whose mortgage term has come to an end or who are completing a new mortgage with us."

 

So not content with an early repayment charge of £4,388.36 they want another £150.. hmm

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

thunderpuss2k,

 

Please note:

 

1.The vacating fee is sometimes called "deed release fee".

 

Basically,it is the costs involved with the mortgage company releasing the deeds.

 

2.Personally I would not persue this fee but the redemption penalty amount - which is normally a percentage of the amount borrowed or x amount in months of mortgage interest on the amount borrowed at a certain rate which is called the Standard Variable Rate or SVR if the mortgage is paid off in full either by selling the property or remortgaging with an alternative mortgage company.

 

3.If anybody needs any help with the calculation,please post the following information:(I have posted this before- a suggestion to the mods to create a seperate section just to do with mortgage redemption penalties)

 

a.Amount Borrowed with date.

b.Type of Rate i.e.fixed,discounted etc.

c.Length of fixed or discounted period.

c.Length of tie in period.

d.Rate after the expiry of the tie in period - Standard Variable Rate(SVR).

e.Redemption Amount.

f.Redemption Date.

 

I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you have any questions,just ask.

 

Post your figures or PM me to work out the calculation for you.

[rbrears]

A vacating fee is for the work in discharging the charge against the property. But dont think £150+ is justified - nowadays lenders only have to a) fill in one form called a DS1 to confirm repayment of the mortgage (1 page of A4) and send it to the seller's solicitor or b) provide a letter to the seller's solicitor confirmimg repayment of the mortgage (again 1 page of A4) and vacate the charge direct with the land registry electronically. So at best they fill in a couple of pages of A4 and it probably takes about 10 minutes. Nice work if you can get it

[thunderpuss2k]

1.The vacating fee is sometimes called "deed release fee". Basically,it is the costs involved with the mortgage company releasing the deeds.

 

Interesting.. maybe they forgot they didn't (and never did) hold the deeds. But anyway..

 

2.Personally I would not persue this fee but the redemption penalty amount - which is normally a percentage of the amount borrowed or x amount in months of mortgage interest on the amount borrowed at a certain rate which is called the Standard Variable Rate or SVR if the mortgage is paid off in full either by selling the property or remortgaging with an alternative mortgage company.

 

I'll dig out the info and PM you in the next few days, as it might take some digging

 

Thanks!

[dinghy]

Interesting.. maybe they forgot they didn't (and never did) hold the deeds. But anyway..

 

 

I'm not 100% sure but... N4B is probably using a slightly anachronistic term (dependant on if your property is registered or not)... The chances are your house doesn't have (or require) deeds anymore...

What I think N4B probably means is removing the note on the register refering to the mortgage charge on the property...

 

I doubt very much whether any banks physically hold the deeds any more and if they do it's only on a very small number of properties...

[maroonfox5]

Hi everyone

 

Just asking if anyone has got any sort of template that I could work around with regards to requesting a redemption fee back from mortgage express.

 

Cheers

 

MF5

 

PS this could be a biggy for lots of people who haven't thought about it!

[Rob S]

The vacating fee seems the same as a mortgage discharge fee. Northern Rock have just charged me £250 for this, having just sold off my flat and paid off the mortgage. I guess being a customer of theirs for 16 years doesn't really count for much.

[Bernadette]

Hi, Just duplicating MF5's Request, Is there any templates for Redemption Fees or Loan charges? I've looked around but can't seem to find any. Maybe someone could point us in the right direction.

 

Thanks B.

[paddym]

hi everyone.

just new on here im amazed at the info its certainly opened my eyes in the past six years ive moved twice and paid early redemption fees of around £14k ive looked around for sample letters to write to the companies concerned but cant find any.could anyone point me in the right direction all help will be greatly received thanks in advance.

paddym

[Movingon]

There aren't any unfortunately; this has only just been discovered and therefore no proving work has been done. Read the thread carefully, and craft your own letters based upon what you read. The English Laws relating to penalty charges are the same as those for bank default charges, the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, and the Unfair Terms (Contracts) Act. Scotland appears to rely on Case Law.

[dashngail]

Hi everyone, new to this site and forum and already amazed at some of the stuff that the financial institutions are pulling. Incredible that it is possible to reclaim redemption penalties. We were forced to remortgage after 18 months when the interest rate increased (raised mortgage by over £200 p/m) and our son also had to remortgage his house early to remove his ex-girlfriend from his mortgage, so this is clearly of interest to us.

 

Could I ask a question? We were in a little financial difficulty last year, illness related, and the building society charged us things like late payment charges, arrears fees, etc, even though the DWP were paying the mortgage and we were keeping them informed, they still sent us letters almost on a weekly basis and charged us £35 each time. Are these liable to be reclaimed?

 

Darren & Gail

[Movingon]

Are they penalties for breach of contract, or do they appear to be? If so, then I would say "yes"...

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

DashnGail,in reply to your post the answer is:

 

YES!

 

 

So,please read through the FAQs first.

 

Regarding,the redemption penalties please post your figures and your son's figures as mentioned in my previous post so I can work out your refund(s) for you.

 

WELOCOME ON BOARD!

 

We will do all we can to help you.

 

If you have any questions,please feel free to ask.

[thunderpuss2k]

N4B, still trying to get time to find my mortgage paperwork for you. Seeing as so many people are asking, what's the chance of putting together a spreadsheet that'll do the calculations for people?

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

Thunderpuss2k,very good question!

 

I am not a spreadsheet expert but very good with figures.Also as you probably know I fully understand mortgage jargon due to working in the industry.

 

I can write the formula I use in working out the figures as I mentioned before.

 

Any spreadsheet expert can then transfer my formula into a spreadsheet format.

 

Pesonally,I have recently written to a mortgage company that I had paid redemption penalties,but I did not mention any figures.

 

I have done this on purpose mainly:

 

1.as my calculations are accurate (as they follow in accordance to the wording of the Unfair Terms Legislation and the Case Law as well together with my understanding of the mortgage jargon) I want to see if the mortgage companies use more than one method to calculate the redemption penalties.This is so I can create the new formulae if needed.Personally I really doubt this because as I have just said the calculations are reliant on the laws both statute and case.

 

2.to see if any other figures i.e.fees that are disguised as service fees where in fact they are penalties that can be used that we are unware of.Why claim less than we should?

 

3.reclaiming mortgage redemption fees is totally unheard of in the past - so we need to get things right from the beginning in order to maximise our claims.

 

Also,

 

a.Personally unless anyone else more on the ball on the legal side than myself suggests otherwise,there is no reason why we should not issue Small Claims for unfixed amounts to include interest rather than include figures that are inaccurate or missing and possibly put people at a loss.Late payment/missing payment fees could be claimed seperately.

 

b.Also,do not forget the £5,000 Small Claims Limit.This is one of the ways which has been also suggested on this forum to get around this potential problem.

Detailed calculations can be submitted when we start to see the responses from the mortgage companies coming through and folks can then help me by posting their figures.

 

c.Basically the judge (and should any case reached court) would inspect the mortgage agreement and decide which figures are excessive and decide the jusgement amount.Just have a calculator ready in the hearing to work out the interest owed.

 

Anyway,I hope this answers your question - Thunderpuss2k.

 

Post or PM me your mortgage figures when you find them.

[thunderpuss2k]

Hi N4B, thanks for that.. just a quick one (I will read your post more in depth later), I did see a formula on my travels the other day for calculating early redemption penalties, but can't for the life of me remember where it was or what exactly it did.

 

Anyway, if you want to PM me the maths I'll whack it into Excel and create a standard spreadsheet.

 

Mortgage paperwork is somewhere in the garage in a box, and filed in no particular order - just somewhere. All kind of got thrown in boxes when I moved back in November, and hasn't really been sorted out properly yet Will get on to it over the weekend hopefully..

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

thunderpuss2k,please try and find that formula that you have seen about redemption penalties so we can compare it with the one that I have already drafted.

 

Also,if you know anyone else that has had a refund to post the figures here.

 

I will try and locate the example that I posted on this forum and hopefully let you know it together with some additional notes no later than the end of this weekend.

 

I look forward to receiving your figures to hopefully grill your former mortgage company.

[thunderpuss2k]

N4B, if you fancy a bit of light bedtime reading..

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A6D7A2E1-F405-4798-8ACC-4E1F6F9CF290/0/oft281.pdf

 

Page 32 onwards looks interesting. Spreadsheet it references is here:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/D63861C5-77A8-4DFD-9515-EC854C44424D/0/281spreadsheet.xls

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

thunderpuss2k,that is 100000% extra light reading lol!

 

Actually,my method of calculation is correct.

 

However,it does not take into account(there could be other factors but at a quick glance):

 

1.Fluctuations in the interest rates throughout the fixed/discount period - if there are any.This is something I would not have considered prior to reading the OFT document.This is because The Standard Variable Rate is the benchmark in all mortgage accounts or what any mortgage account holder would pay after the initial rate expires.Then there are other factors i.e.linked to base rate etc.

 

2.If the mortgage is being repaid on a capital and interest basis - the capital element.

 

3.European and US types of mortgages.

 

Anyway,that is enough for now.

[thunderpuss2k]

Glad you could make sense of it, I took one look at the spreadsheet and decided to stick to my abacus Still, I would imagine your formula is a good starting point. If something like this ever went to court, I doubt very much that the judge would be too impressed at having to familiarise themselves with that OFT report, so if the mortgage companies argue against your formula they should have a damn good reason for it - plus they'd then have to provide the formula that they did use to calculate that particular redemption penalty - which could be most interesting.

[paddym]

hi all,

thanks for all the replies my heads pickled at the minute with all this mortgage redemtion charges . im digging out my details they are here some where keep up the good work folk cant wait to read the next instalments this thing getting so addictive and moderaters i will make a donation when i get on the ball and get my refunds thanks again everyone its a pleasure communicating with you all ! paddy

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

Thundercat2k,I never looked at the spreadsheet.As far as spreadsheets are concerned I gave them up many years ago or in fact let me rephrase that spreadsheets gave me up many years ago lol! On my part,I studied the formulae within the OFT report and as I digest the segments of this report I will update you accordingly.Actually,it is very handy handy you found this report,so well done here!There is nothing like arming yourself with the knowledge that the mortgage companies would least expect you to know. ha!ha!My heart bleeds for them!

 

Let me tell you abit more about myself,I am well qualified in maths and have over the years lectured the subject on a part-time basis up to and including undergraduate level - so hopefully I can deduce some useful formulae to assist members of this forum to kick some more mortgage companies a**ses properly!

 

Like I said before,it would be also very useful if we could get hold of other folks figures that have had their redemption fees refunded.

 

Anyway,that is all for now.

[BankFodder]

A while back I asked about getting mortgage redemption fees back from Leeds and Holbeck (4800 pounds) - well thanks to all the advice I got from this site I wrote to Leeds and Holbeck and they agreed to refund all the fees minus the interest they lost out on for the 2 months (I was tied in for five years and cancelled the mortgage 2 months before this was up). All this was completed within 2 weeks and I'm just waiting for my check to be posted out!!!

 

Thanks to all who gave me advice esp. robertxc whose quote I used in the letter to the bank. So anyone else with early redemption fees - try and get them back - I did!!

 

Now I'm just waiting on those other pesky banks to refund my charges.....

Still, this has given me the courage to go on!!!!!

THANKS!!!!

 

I have just noticed this. Congratualtions.

It's a good thing that you never saw my advice because I have been saying that it would not be possible. I am still amazed but -very pleased for you at the same time.

I hope that people take heart from this and do have a go

[andrew1]

I don't want to feck up this thread, but all this just goes to show the power of this site. SYNERGY ! It's bloody wonderful! Thank you Mods et al.