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Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974


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Hi can someone please tell me what to try next, I have a letter from Lowells saying that my CCA longer exists and they are closing the files on my alleged debt,but Lowells are still refusing to remove the default from my credit report, Ive tried the imformation commissioner but with no joy!!, surley if the debt is unenforcable then it should not be on my credit report!

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HI, Why on earth did they put in 12days + one month to come up with the CCA ??? They just as well not bothered with a time scale ! They must have thought 6 weeks was plenty of time to produce a copy of the CCA . So why oh why , when a OC or a DCA do not come up with it , they are allow to spring it out of the blue just before a court case ? And why do Judges not dismis the case , on grounds of noncompliance ? answers anyone ???

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The Judges don't have a clue - they aren't traing in consumer law remember. These are people, usually legally trained with a background, but otherwise they are simple people like you and I. (Not being too presumptious there, I hope!)

 

Remember this timescale was set from legislation dated 1974 and regs from 1983 - the world was a different place back then.

 

You're right about dealing with them properly - in fact, I've just posted this elsewhere;

 

You can submit a counterclaim other than with a defence, but you will need to seek the permission of the court to do that - that can be a simple cover letter asking them to serve the attached counterclaim to the defendent, but I suspect they will want a formal application (and the fee that goes along with it - £40) to perform the task.

 

You're right that they shouldn't be pursuing these claims without a properly executed credit agreement. IMO, they are hoping that either you don't know what to do, so will submit to their claim and not defend, or that they will get a dippy Judge that doesn't know consumer law from his elbow in the hope that he will allow them to enforce the agreement DESPITE what is outlined in the CCA.

 

Sounds like a funny way to run a business to me too, but if you consider that only about 2% of litigants know the law inside out, or have someone to help them with it, (here comes CAG! :p ) it's probably a good idea to try to enforce even if they don't have an agreement.

 

You can see from these sorts of threads that these companies don't have a leg to stand one, (providing you win the "Judge lottery", that is!) but you can also see that they don't tend to manage claims that are defended correctly neither. Hence the reasons for failing to comply with legal requests for more information to substantiate the claim, without which they can't bring the claim in the first place, and the criminal ignoring of formal requests for info under Civil procedure rules.

 

It is about time the Courts took these companies to task, as it's all a big waste of time for you, them and the Court.

 

Don't forget to apply for a wasted costs order, despite allocation to a track that doesn't allow it, in these circumstances - which gives the Judge a chance to bite back! If he has the b*lls to do it that is!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/94734-wasted-costs-beginning.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/85726-wasted-costs-order.html

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi There please give me guidence re other ccas im chasing MBNA replies re my four cards sending terms and Conditions for now ie charges £12 not when accounts opened recent statement of accounts and say " in accordance with cca 1974 we enclose copies of your credit agreements including applicable terms and conditions , and a statemnet of accounts . We are sorry we have not beEn able to send you a photocopy of the originas but hope that you find the copy clear to read and sufficient for your purpose "

So not t & c when accountS open cca agrements sent are just typed no address no name no terms no interest rate no limit no signature by me or mbna etc just ones made up on all 4 accounts .

Also they say 3 of debts sold on to dca

My questions If they havent supplied copy of original agrement all debts are unenforceable am I right ?

as they defaulted me on all these that isnt legal is it ?

They sold debts on and I am gettg harrassed if they have no agreements then thats illegal isnt it ?

They are in default and indeed committed offence as havent supplied proper terms and agrement etc isnt that right ?

What do I do now regarding

Letter to MBNA do I ask them to remove all credit information as they have no signed agreement , remove defaults take back debts from dcas and ask them not to pursue ?

Do I write to the dcas myself ?

Can i sue for illegal deafults

report to Trading standards ?

OFT ?

I also have penalty charges I havent claimed yet but if debt written off cant claim or can I let me know ... feel wouldnt be right to claim back if debt written off

Has anyone else ahd same thing happen to them and how did they go about it and what happened in end ie

Debts written off

Debts not written off but not enforceable ?

defaulst removed or not removed

DCAs gave up or continued etc ?

 

regards Gaz

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Without you having signed an agreement that contains the prescribed terms the debts are unenforceable. Full stop.

 

If they can't find one then the ICO have said iredeemably enforceable = no defaults. I'd invite them to remove them now failing that then you'll complain the ICO.

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Without you having signed an agreement that contains the prescribed terms the debts are unenforceable. Full stop.

 

If they can't find one then the Information Commissioners Office have said iredeemably enforceable = no defaults. I'd invite them to remove them now failing that then you'll complain the Information Commissioners Office.

 

 

Thanks Edz do you know of any sample letters etc maybe I can get all 4 written off that will leave 1345 cards left only joking .... Regards Gaz

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Hi There please give me guidence re other ccas im chasing MBNA replies re my four cards sending terms and Conditions for now ie charges £12 not when accounts opened recent statement of accounts and say " in accordance with cca 1974 we enclose copies of your credit agreements including applicable terms and conditions , and a statemnet of accounts . We are sorry we have not beEn able to send you a photocopy of the originas but hope that you find the copy clear to read and sufficient for your purpose "

So not t & c when accountS open cca agrements sent are just typed no address no name no terms no interest rate no limit no signature by me or mbna etc just ones made up on all 4 accounts .

Also they say 3 of debts sold on to dca

My questions If they havent supplied copy of original agrement all debts are unenforceable am I right ?

as they defaulted me on all these that isnt legal is it ?

They sold debts on and I am gettg harrassed if they have no agreements then thats illegal isnt it ?

They are in default and indeed committed offence as havent supplied proper terms and agrement etc isnt that right ?

What do I do now regarding

Letter to MBNA do I ask them to remove all credit information as they have no signed agreement , remove defaults take back debts from dcas and ask them not to pursue ?

Do I write to the dcas myself ?

Can i sue for illegal deafults

report to Trading standards ?

OFT ?

I also have penalty charges I havent claimed yet but if debt written off cant claim or can I let me know ... feel wouldnt be right to claim back if debt written off

Has anyone else ahd same thing happen to them and how did they go about it and what happened in end ie

Debts written off

Debts not written off but not enforceable ?

defaulst removed or not removed

DCAs gave up or continued etc ?

 

regards Gaz

 

Hi Gaz,

 

Write back to them and tell them that -

"I do not accept the documents provided as satisfaction of my request.

At present the debt is in default and unenforceable until the original is produced by you.

Furthermore until the document has been presented to my satisfaction I will not be making any futher payments.

 

In default you are not allowed to;

a). add interest,

b). request payment,

c). place defaults against me,

d). or indeed sell the debt on.

Should you fail to comply I will enjoy reporting you to all relevant bodies.

 

If you wish to proceed with by taking me to court please do so.

Should a court appearance by myself be neccessary I will remind the Court of my lawful request and inform the court that had you complied this court appearance would not have been needed.

Most importantly dont forget to bring along the original- because you will need it for the court to enforce.

If you have it? - that is.

Then you can explain why you have wasted mine and the courts time.

I cannot wait to receive your reply"

 

Gaz- this format worked for me and MOH with three seperate DCA's- Well nothing since I wrote them in October and November to date.........two gave up completely and one passed it back to the Original Lender (who said 'we arent persuing with it')

 

hsbcfiddled

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Hi Gaz

You may wanna take a look at my thread - I've been in a battle with MBNA since April 07 - they have admitted they don't have the terms and conditions applicable at the time of opening the account and have sent me a application form from 1993.

But hey - a little thing like paperwork doesn't stop them from enforcing debt, entering a default, not sending Default Notice and selling on the debt.

They are a law unto themselves. :mad:

 

By all means complain to your local TS and they will refer it to Chester TS, who will sit on it for months, believe EVERYTHING MBNA tell them at face value and not take any further action.

The relationship between MBNA and Chester TS is very cosy IMHO. :(

 

My thread is here see if it is of any use

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/81907-mbna-ding-ding-round.html#post729106

 

Be prepared for the long haul.

 

I am preparing to initiate a court claim against the Data Controller of MBNA but am reading and reading and reading around to fully prepare for this:

 

[a) Has defaulted on his obligation to respond to a request from the Claimant pursuant to s.77 (1) & s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974, under which the alleged agreement is alleged to operate;

b) Has failed to comply with a Statutory Notice issued by the Claimant pursuant to s.10 & s.12 Data Protection Act 1998;

c) Has applied the “Default” without complying with the requirements of s.87 Consumer Credit Act 1974;

d) Continues to process data regarding the alleged default with Credit Reference Agencies.

 

best wishes and keep on with the fight :)

PLEASE sign this petition to reduce amount of time CRAs hold your data

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/CreditRA

 

I HATE MBNA :evil::-x:mad::-x

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Can anyone help please??

Received totally illegible application form from Lloyds Mastercard - is there a standard letter to request a clearer copy and quoting relevant parts of the consumer act?

Received MBNA Virgin application form from 2002 with attached T&C's which obviously relate to 2006 as they mention the £12 default charges - again is there a standard letter to send off. Have spent all morning looking for stuff which I have spotted in the past, but can't now find!

Ta muchly

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Can anyone help please??

Received totally illegible application form from Lloyds Mastercard - is there a standard letter to request a clearer copy and quoting relevant parts of the consumer act?

Received MBNA Virgin application form from 2002 with attached T&C's which obviously relate to 2006 as they mention the £12 default charges - again is there a standard letter to send off. Have spent all morning looking for stuff which I have spotted in the past, but can't now find!

Ta muchly

 

Having your own thread would be the best place to start.

 

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hi all,i've just received a reply from 1st credit to my cca request,i sent the request in october,they've sent me a copy of the privacy statment i signed and a copy of the credit agreement,the agreement is a copy of someone elses and includes details of the persons home and mobile number,home address,ni number,place of work address and even the serial number of the guys driving licence!i'm going to write to them and ask them to cease all action against me until i see a true copy of the agreement i signed,and tell them i will inform the person who's details they sent me about this,should i also take this up with yhe information comissioner as well?

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Well i would say not to let them know they have the wrong person . Let them take you to court , Judge would dismis there claim against you. Do not mention they have sent you the wrong form . I would send the template letter demanding they delete all records they have . The OFT are useless so not sure it worth writting to them .

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Actually,

I would consider letting the Information Commissioners office know that you have been sent someone else's personal and highly sensitive financial details....... and also possibly even the press !!

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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hi all,i've just received a reply from 1st credit to my cca request,i sent the request in october,they've sent me a copy of the privacy statment i signed and a copy of the credit agreement,the agreement is a copy of someone elses and includes details of the persons home and mobile number,home address,ni number,place of work address and even the serial number of the guys driving licence!i'm going to write to them and ask them to cease all action against me until i see a true copy of the agreement i signed,and tell them i will inform the person who's details they sent me about this,should i also take this up with yhe information comissioner as well?

 

 

OMG- unbelievable.

I hope by 'cease' you mean 'total end' not 'cease for now'

 

I would try to get a letter from them stating that the agreement has been terminated and that you dont owe them any monies. However if there are charges that have been included request them back with the same compounded interest that has been applied to you.

 

Finally because you have them well and truly by the 'wotsits' tell them that you want £5k to ensure confidentiality.

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OMG- unbelievable.

Finally because you have them well and truly by the 'wotsits' tell them that you want £5k to ensure confidentiality.

 

I think that might be considered as blackmail !

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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moneyshop say i owe them £305,i believe it to be £240,about £150 is moneyshop's 'charges' for bounced chq's.but since this has all been passed ot 1st credit,should they have the full statement of transactions(i was paying off in £40 per month payments to moneyshop)or will moneyshop still have them?

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i have to say that when i saw they had given me someone elses details from moneyshop i did cackle,i thnk i will text the ther party(since 1st credit kindly included their mobile number)and let them know what has happened and suggest they come to this site for guidance!

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we too are dealing with MBNA who have sold on 3 of our debts - they have sent copies of the current t& c and nothing more for 3 and admitted they dont have 1 - i think i need to write to them again.....is there a template to cover the 'find originals or on your bike???'

Northern Rock - loan - £6000

Beneficial credit card - £12+

GM Card - £13+

will have to look up the others have about 21 debtors totalling about £175,000

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adam it would be fair and i think the other debtor would appreciate the link to this forum and as for their details being posted to you, i would forward this to the information commissioners office with haste and also let the ICO that they have not complied with your request ,this way the ICO can go to the OC and then start an action or the other debtor can qute easily begin their action against the OC for their breach of the DPA

patrickq1

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