grAbbey National 'v' Hartnell - Any advise appreciated!

[charleyfarley]

m-g,

 

sounds like you're well-organised and clued up.............so go for it, and remember,as a Litigant in Person, the courts are supposed to be a bit more tolerant and understanding

[marmite-girl]

lets hope so!!

my shiny shoes should do the trick!! (she hopes)

x

[psm]

Hi m-g

 

How u feelin? Read this on the barclays threads and thought it might help settle your nerves!!!!

Good luck today.

 

"Going to court" Dont make me laugh

full report from an entertaining afternoon at Kingston County Court **MUST READ**

Along with 30-40 others I was at Kingston upon Thames County Court this afternoon for a direction hearing with Barclays bank amongst others.

 

I know a lot of people are nervous about the possibility of going to court so I took a few notes with a view to reporting back and I must be honest it was a couple of hours of excellent entertainment.

 

First of all the cast.

 

The judge was a very well presented and instantly likeable bloke. A bit like Ken Barlow on Coronation Street. It was clear from the start that he wasn’t going to miss the opportunity to entertain in front of what was a capacity crowd in Court Two.

 

On the front row representing Barclays was a youngish lady in her late twenties looking every inch the up and coming Lawyer, impeccably dressed, hair tied up, small bifocals. She had a huge file in front of her containing the details of all the dreadful people who had the nerve to challenge Barclays.

 

To her left was a rather distinguished duo who were representing a No win No fee company and subsequently it turned out were representing a significant number of the claimants listed for the day

 

Directly behind them, relegated to the 2nd row was the rather sad looking figure representing Lloyds TSB. Compared to the snappy dressers in the front row he was clearly 2nd division and if on the off chance your reading this treat yourself to a new tie. No one is going to take you seriously wearing that!!!

 

The rest of the court room was packed with 30-40 claimants and you could cut the atmosphere with a knife as everyone was thinking the same “ Please don’t let it be me called first”

 

The first business of the afternoon was to deal with some overspill from the morning involving Lloyds. 3 or 4 cases had clearly been settled as a result of some frantic phone calls during the lunch break. The case names were mentioned and the bloke from Lloyds repeated several times weve settled. There appeared to be a dispute about the account number on one of these cases as the claimant had written the wrong number on his schedule.

 

Sensing his opportunity the man from Lloyds jumped to his feet shouting “Move to strike out the claim” “Don’t be ridiculous” retorted the judge “just put the correct account number on the schedule” We will settle” mumbled the man from Lloyds somewhat disheartened by his failure.

 

I personally don’t like to kick a man when he’s down but the judge showed no such sympathy. “Are you a barrister,” he asked “ No he replied” “ A legal clerk” no” “What are you then” asked the judge “ I used to be an old managing clerk”

 

A slight titter could be heard from the big hitters in ringside seats as the man from Lloyds buried his face in his papers.

 

Then from nowhere appeared a flighty young lad, plonked himself next to the Barclays barrister and in a lawyer sort of way gained the attention of the Judge. He was representing the bank of Ireland and needed to get away quickly so could he go first.

 

The judge obliged and the claimant in this case stood up. The flighty man from Ireland informed the judge that everything had been sorted out (They Settled) and the claimant had consented to the case being withdrawn. The judge asked the claimant if he agreed “ absolutely” he replied “I’ve got to get back and open up my pub and by the way there’s a Gin and Tonic waiting for you on the house”

 

The judge smiled “I better not but I’m sure my clerk could do with one”

 

Things had started well for the claimants and you could feel the relief in the court.

 

Next up was Nat West or well they would have been had they turned up. The claimant informed the judge that they had agreed to settle but he hadn’t had the money yet. The judge agreed to an adjournment to allow time for the money to be paid.

 

The young claimant wasn’t finished there. “Id like to apply for costs” he demanded. The judge didn’t look at all fazed and asked what he would like. Buoyed by this the claimant produced his civil procedure book, no doubt purchased from this site, and started to quote from it.

 

The judge appeared caught by surprise and stopped him. “ If you are going to start quoting civil procedure rules we are going to have to put you at the end”

 

The claimant left a bit crest fallen but lived to fight on later in the day.

 

It was then time for the first of the many Barclays cases. The case was called, the pristine Lady from Barclays flicked to the correct page in her huge file with ruthless efficiency.

 

Distinguished gent to her left rises and states he represents the claimant.

 

Pristine Lady states that Barclays have not received a schedule of charges so could not deal with the claim.

 

Distinguished gent states “that’s a bit surprising as they are stapled to the back of the Form N1 of which you have a copy”

 

Judge agrees and there is an uncomfortable silence as the pristine lady ruffles thru her papers.

 

“Ill have to take instructions”

 

“You do that” states the judge!! Adjourned for Barclays to get their Act together.

 

Then followed about 7 or 8 Barclays cases with the same outcome.

 

"No schedule of charges" she muttered.

 

I’ve sent them to you a hundred times shouted the claimant.

 

"Ill have to take instructions" ever more quietly

 

Then came the first mention of expenses from one of the claimants. “I’ve had to take a day of work to come here can I claim costs”.

 

The judge seemed receptive “What is your job” he asked

 

“Telephonist” she replied

 

How long have you been here?

 

“3 hours”

 

How much do you earn?

 

“£7 an hour”.

 

“That seems reasonable to me costs awarded £21”.

 

You could here the cogs werring in the brains of the claimants as they sniffed an opportunity.

 

Every case after that the opportunity for costs was ruthlessly exploited

 

“What do you do for a living sir?”

 

“Consultant sir” states the defendant

 

“How much do you earn an hour?”

 

“£50” stated the defendant

 

“How long have you been here?”

 

“Since this morning sir”

 

“£270 costs awarded”

 

“What about my car park bill that’s another £10”

 

“£280 costs awarded.”

 

One optimistic claimant even tried to get Barclays to pay for the possibility that she may be clamped in the local car park.

 

That was one step to far for the ever-generous judge who with a wry smile politely refused.

 

Next up Abbey National. Several defendants were awarded judgements and costs on an ever-increasing scale as Abbey couldn’t be bothered to turn up

 

Even the man from Lloyds was joining in the party. Realising that he was on the wrong side of a bit of a hiding he started advising one of the Abbey national claimants on how to calculate 8%.

 

One claimant from alliance and Leicester (Who also failed to turn up) was despatched from the court by the judge to find a calculator so he could add up the daily interest rate.

 

amongst the carnage There were a few successes for the banks

 

A couple of Barclay’s claimants failed to turn up and their claim was struck out. The not so pristine lady from Barclays asked for costs.

 

“How much do you earn” asked the judge.

 

Surly she wasn’t going to answer !! She muttered, stumbled then came out with the old favourite “ Ill have to take instructions”

 

The judge took sympathy on her and adjourned the hearing pending costs.

 

A couple of other significant things happened.

 

Alliance and Leicester had written to the judge stating they were going to defend one claim. The defendant was furious.

 

“They should have been here then” he snorted.

 

The judge with another crippling blow ordered full disclosure by the A & L within 14 days or their defence would be struck out

 

He calmed the claimant by informing him that he need do nothing and he should expect some sort of offer of settlement as soon as they receive that letter.

 

Several claimants asked if members of their family could speak on their behalf and this was allowed although to be honest it wasn’t necessary.

 

I left the court just after 3.30 having witnessed a complete route of the banks on almost all fronts.

 

Lessons learnt.

 

Don’t be afraid of the court

 

Do turn up

 

Have all your paperwork with you

 

Work out your costs and settlement figure before hand

 

 

I know this is only one court in one part of the country but hopefully this will encourage everyone to keep at it.

[ohoh4312]

Good Luck Marmite!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ICY]

Best of luck MG i have everything crossed for you, but please hurry the blood supply will be starting to cut off soon, and who knows whats gonna happen then lol

[Lady E]

Good luck Marmite Girl . I guess you are banging on the doors of the court now along with the man from the Abbey in his less than shiny shoes;)

Hope you have some really good news to report back to us shortly

[Boris Becca]

Good luck Marmite girl, Feeling for you this a.m. read your thread, hold your head up and just do your best. VERY BEST OF LUCK.

[katiec]

Good luck today !!! Look forward to hearing your news !!!

 

GO GET 'EM Marmitegirl

[marmite-girl]

you guys (and gals) are stars.. i cant believe (well actually i can) the level of support and encouragement on this forum.. it warms the cockles, it truly does!

im fairly calm this morning (oddly enough) just having a last minute read through everything - then going to set off in plenty of time, get parked.. have a wee.. brush me hair.. have another wee (its a woman thing!) - then jump in with both feet (shiny shoes included!)

i shall report back here as SOON as i get back to the office...

 

.. watch this marmitey space!

 

thanks again to you all - pat yourselves on the back.

 

Marmite x

[ICY]

Please hurry everything is starting to turn black lol

[marmite-girl]

ICY - uncross everything.. before something drops off!! give them a little cross around 12 noon.. and i will know you are all with me!!

[charleyfarley]

m-g,

 

hurry up and tell us how you got on.........ICY's getting VERY worried now;)

[marmite-girl]

well

 

im back!

 

will keep this brief for now.. but the upshot of it all is the case has been stayed!!

 

abbey sent a harry potter lookalike (approximate age 14) to request the stay. the judge asked me why i thought he should hear my case and not apply the stay.. i said my piece, was quite composed and went through it all slowly.. the judge asked if i would be objecting to the stay.. i told him yes and handed him my prepared notice - he said that he would grant the stay to fall in line with the rest of the country and await the outcome of the test case.

 

he urged me not to object the stay.. and said that if i did he would still grant the stay - if i wanted to object i could appeal and that would go to the high court and if i lost the appeal i would be liable for costs!!!

 

i think he was just trying to scare me!!

 

so - he said the test case would be heard in january and i should sit tight until then.

 

thats it.. stayed!! - not overly surprised.. bit of an anti-climax. there were 3 other people there 1 against abbey.. and all of the cases were stayed.

 

so.. more waiting!!

 

thanks to all for your mammoth support.

 

ICY.. uncross everything.. for a few months anyway!

 

Marmite x

[ohoh4312]

What a complete bummer

 

Sounds like the Judge was Dolores Umbridges' Dad!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Really sorry you had to go through going to Court just for that to happen, but it sounds like you held your corner well, so congrats on that.

 

 

 

Jo xx

[psm]

Unlucky M-g. My question is why did the DJ make people go through the stress and anxiety of the court process when he was going to stay the case anyway. Surely it would have been better just to stay the cases soon after the OFT announcement, or is this just more window dressing being seen to be just.

[Lula]

Poor you MG, and I agree with psm, why make people turn up at court and then not bother to even hear it.

 

the only solace that I can offer is the mounting interest

[charleyfarley]

m-g,

 

I've just re-read your thread and i can't believe the Judge!!!!!

 

Did the Abbey even submit a bundle?

 

how on earth he can order a stay in circumstances like these is absolutely and totally beyond me, and not just a stay for a month to allow negotiations.........it's for months:mad: :mad:

 

 

Well Done for going through with today.it must have been nerve-wracking:)

[Boris Becca]

So sorry to hear this news, think its outragous you where out through this, i guess thats pretty much whats gonna happen to me. Time to lick your wounds and pick yourself up ready for January-HOPEFULLY !!!

[Lady E]

Absolutely shocking news !!!

 

No court bundle, 14 yr old choirboy for legal representation and they are still allowed a stay. As my 3 yr old says "its not fair"!

 

Well done for going the course, loads of bottle to do that.

 

But I suppose as everyone has said who else gives 8% interest on cash, because WE will get it back?

[marmite-girl]

thanks everyone.. for all your comments

i feel that my fate had been decided even before i got into the court room! abbey never submitted the bundle.. therefore didnt comply witht eh judges order.. this didnt seem to bother him.. he was more focused on the test case.. and almost telling me i would be wasting my time if i objected to the stay!

im glad its all over with - not the outcome i wanted, but it was out of my hands.. im not the only one in this boat!!

i am confident we will get our money back.. eventually.. it will be worth the wait!!

we need to stick together and keep ahead of developments.

M x

[psm]

this has seriously shaken my faith in the british judicial system. This reeks of the "establishment" closing ranks. Did you use the GaryH objections to a stay, and if so did the DJ appear to be listening and/or taking notes. It all seems so high handed and dare I say UNJUST.

[Lady E]

I wonder if a Moderator is watching this case,I am really concerned that the Abbey are pushing the limits here on stress, by forcing their customers to attend a court hearing where they have absolutely no intention of proceeding with, and from what I can see using the regulatory body for their own purposes. From a court procedure point of view , if the case is due to be heard in Jan 08 , can the banks use any other delaying tactic to prolong this? How many stays can you apply for? Can a request for a stay be over ruled by a higher body?

 

I am now very concerned about what will be waiting for me on 23rd August .

[Lady E]

this has seriously shaken my faith in the british judicial system. This reeks of the "establishment" closing ranks. Did you use the GaryH objections to a stay, and if so did the DJ appear to be listening and/or taking notes. It all seems so high handed and dare I say UNJUST.

 

 

Hear hear ...........

[psm]

On a point of court procedure/protocol can you request that a judge gives you in writing the reasons why he chooses to disregard your objections, point by pointto a stay being granted, or do you have to accept what the judge says. Without any written response it would be very difficult to form a basis for an appeal to his ruling.

[marmite-girl]

i did have the objections, as per GaryH - all typed out.. in triplicate (just in case).. the judge looked at in and informed me, i I wanted to submit it, he would still allow the stay!!

harry potter across the table had a very smug look on his speccy youthful face!

i was very polite and composed throught the whole thing.. but have got a sh***y black cloud above me now.

im more than convinced that i had done everything right.. but am now questioning myself, wondering if i could have put my case across any better.. or if i would have just been wasting my breath!

hey ho - fight the good fight and all that.

hopefully mr big chief itchy wig who i saw today is an exception to the rule and other people will get a fair hearing!

incidentally.. he didnt have a wig on.. maybe just a syrup!! actually, he looked a bit like jerry springer.. says it all really!