Court Date - Have queries! Help Please?

[nicsussex]

Echo those sentiments entirely - best of luck for tomorrow

[rh999]

Fzrkitten

 

best of luck for tomorrow.

 

my fingers and toes are crossed for u.

[fzrkitten]

Hi all,

 

Thank you very much for the support and help.

 

I've just made a mad dash at 6.30 to other half's house for the internet, as mine broke tuesday and I haven't been at work (home swatting!).

 

Rich, I never got judgement before, should of done but they were quick putting in that sneaky order for fast track.

 

Today is a 'case management hearing' because it was re-allocated to fast track, so this might not be the end for me. I have no idea what will happen today, it's a bit worse than knowing it's the final hearing I think - don't know if lloyds will turn up (they said they were sending counsel). Didn't know whether to phone SC&M, but didn't want to pre-warn them it was going ahead, so I've just left it. 12.00 today is looming!

 

I might not get back on pc til late, so sorry if you are waiting for news!

 

Thanks again,

 

Fzrkitten.

x

[fzrkitten]

Hi all,

 

Sorry, kitty's been off licking her wounds. Gutted. I have no good news I'm afraid. Barrister attended on behalf of Lloyds, there must have been 10 Lloyds cases and another 10 or so from the other banks today in Coventry Court. I don't know the outcome of all - anyone else there today? (Some just didn't turn up).

 

Went in about 12.15 for a five minute session, came out at 1.30. The judge let me say everything I wanted to, told us there were no blanket stays, every case was being dealt with on individual merits. Went in with one other guy, and there was a lady and her husband before us.

 

I argued that Lloyds had already defaulted by not complying with disclosure order before test case was even announced, and what would happen if I didn't comply with an order (judge said probably struck out), so how come Lloyds weren't - and were allowed to put in an ex parte application for fast track. Judge has written an order, I think to put me back on small claims, but only if Lloyds don't disagree within the next 7 days (!).

 

I argued my case should be heard as it had been going on since april, and Lloyds had stalled at every turn, (I did use some big words but seem to have lost them in my now cabbage of a brain). And that it would cause financial hardship if it didn't go ahead. I said that the test case in the first instance is based on the UTCCR's, and that bounced cheques and overdraft fees are a clear breach of contract and not based on the UTCCR's, the judge was very interested in this, spoke to the barrister (lost me at this point unfortunately) and I actually thought things were going well.

 

The judge basically let me speak for nearly an hour, then moved on to the chap I went in with, who also had some very valid points, so I nodded a lot.

 

At the end, the judge did a very long summing up, wouldn't look either of us in the face, told me it was better this way for me as if mine continued on fast track it would go to a high court and take 8 days and cost a lot, then stayed both cases.

 

I don't believe for a minute they weren't blanket stays, I am sure the decision was made before I got in there. Even the guy I went in with said "if they weren't issuing blanket stays, and everything you said didn't stop a stay, then what does!" He was gobsmacked.

 

Also, the judge stayed us both until 31st July 2008, unless the test case was all settled by then. Then he said if we don't get settled by 31st July 2008, WE have to apply to get another stay, otherwise WE will be struck out!!!!! (Not Lloyds!!!!).

 

And the barrister said 'very grateful', (my precious)! - He was actually ok, just a barrister acting on behalf of, like most are.

 

Lady before us got stayed as well, so I guess most were today.

 

Gary - I never even got to give them the extra paperwork today, not interested, and I was up at 6.30am collating that lot!

 

All I can say is thank you so much for your help so far guys, and if we win the test case I'm still donating big style for all your help, just sorry it can't be sooner. And Gary I owe you a few drinks as I said!

 

Still gutted though.

 

Fzrkitten.

x

[Night Owl]

Oh my god!!!

How can the banks get away with such awful behaviour.

Well done for getting your case across. I'm sure it was nerve wracking.

 

I argued that Lloyds had already defaulted by not complying with disclosure order before test case was even announced, and what would happen if I didn't comply with an order (judge said probably struck out), so how come Lloyds weren't

Why weren't they struck out for absolute abuse of process? it makes no sense.

I'm so sorry for you you must be really gutted.

Such a long time to wait to do anything now.

Night Owl

[rh999]

Hi Fzrkittten

 

really sorry for this result for you. myself and my wife had been looking forward to a good reply from you.

 

do you have course for appeal on this?

 

also not sure of your situation with Lloyds, but did you mention about continued charges on your account whilst the stay isi in place?

 

looks like they have won then.

 

the old boys club has got together and made sure they dont lose out on this!

[Night Owl]

I don't know if it's worth watching this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/113210-urgent-info-needed-confirm.html

 

Night Owl

[GaryH]

Hi all,

 

Sorry, kitty's been off licking her wounds. Gutted. I have no good news I'm afraid. Barrister attended on behalf of Lloyds, there must have been 10 Lloyds cases and another 10 or so from the other banks today in Coventry Court. I don't know the outcome of all - anyone else there today? (Some just didn't turn up).

 

Went in about 12.15 for a five minute session, came out at 1.30. The judge let me say everything I wanted to, told us there were no blanket stays, every case was being dealt with on individual merits. Went in with one other guy, and there was a lady and her husband before us.

 

I argued that Lloyds had already defaulted by not complying with disclosure order before test case was even announced, and what would happen if I didn't comply with an order (judge said probably struck out), so how come Lloyds weren't - and were allowed to put in an ex parte application for fast track. Judge has written an order, I think to put me back on small claims, but only if Lloyds don't disagree within the next 7 days (!).

 

I argued my case should be heard as it had been going on since april, and Lloyds had stalled at every turn, (I did use some big words but seem to have lost them in my now cabbage of a brain). And that it would cause financial hardship if it didn't go ahead. I said that the test case in the first instance is based on the UTCCR's, and that bounced cheques and overdraft fees are a clear breach of contract and not based on the UTCCR's, the judge was very interested in this, spoke to the barrister (lost me at this point unfortunately) and I actually thought things were going well.

 

The judge basically let me speak for nearly an hour, then moved on to the chap I went in with, who also had some very valid points, so I nodded a lot.

 

At the end, the judge did a very long summing up, wouldn't look either of us in the face, told me it was better this way for me as if mine continued on fast track it would go to a high court and take 8 days and cost a lot, then stayed both cases.

 

I don't believe for a minute they weren't blanket stays, I am sure the decision was made before I got in there. Even the guy I went in with said "if they weren't issuing blanket stays, and everything you said didn't stop a stay, then what does!" He was gobsmacked.

 

Also, the judge stayed us both until 31st July 2008, unless the test case was all settled by then. Then he said if we don't get settled by 31st July 2008, WE have to apply to get another stay, otherwise WE will be struck out!!!!! (Not Lloyds!!!!).

 

And the barrister said 'very grateful', (my precious)! - He was actually ok, just a barrister acting on behalf of, like most are.

 

Lady before us got stayed as well, so I guess most were today.

 

Gary - I never even got to give them the extra paperwork today, not interested, and I was up at 6.30am collating that lot!

 

All I can say is thank you so much for your help so far guys, and if we win the test case I'm still donating big style for all your help, just sorry it can't be sooner. And Gary I owe you a few drinks as I said!

 

Still gutted though.

 

Fzrkitten.

x

Sounds like you did really well. The fact that you were in there so long shows that you must have given him something to think about. To be honest you were always going to be up against it in front of that particular judge. I didn't tell you before because I didn't want to worry you, but thats the judge who ruled in favour of Lloyds before, having found no breach! Thats probably why he was so interested in your evidence that there is.

 

Well done.

[fzrkitten]

Hi again,

 

RH, I have no dealings with lloyds anymore except that the account is open, so no argument needed on that one for me anyway.

 

Nightowl, thanks hun, resigned to just waiting now, but as the guy with me said, if I couldn't stop the stay with all that then who could! Feel a bit deflated for others too, wanted to bring some good news but couldn't.

 

I do agree it's 'old boys together', got that feeling straight away!

 

Gary, it wasn't THAT judge, although the one I saw did make mention to him and the case that was lost, he kind of went on that to say they needed clarity. There was more than one judge, and the lady before me saw the other judge, and he did same, stayed the case. I was surprised at the number of people that didn't seem to know what they were arguing though, and had just turned up because they were told to.

 

When I get a copy of things, including small claims track order etc, will post up again, I couldn't remember everything that got said in court, but I am glad I got chance to argue my case, thanks to your help too.

 

On friday afterwards I just wanted to know if you can hire the guy with the muck spreader that was in the news - Today I feel a bit better!

 

Fzrkitten.

x

[fzrkitten]

Hi again, just been reading hadyanth's ace news -

hadyanth vs Lloyds TSB - Goodbye fingernails...

 

and wondered if I had a case to appeal against the stay on the same grounds - (CPR 3.8/3.9) that lloyds didn't put in for the stay correctly etc (i was sent the letter on the friday, had court the following weds. Must say their barrister was very interested about when we got our letters.

 

Night Owl as well - v interesting link you posted above, only just had time to nose.

 

I just don't want to let this drop - Gary, what do you think? I know I didn't cover this in court, just wish I had not gone to pieces slightly!

 

I'm still waiting for small claims 're-order' to come in post, will post stuff up when I get it.

 

I just don't want to lie down until the test case, I really don't. There must be some way we can show how they have treated me throughout. (Royal 'we' there - I need help!).

 

I also think that the fact they have dropped their charges slightly is unbelievable. I think they are trying to say to the OFT 'look, we dropped our charges, surely this is ok now and you won't make us drop them any further'.

 

I thought I would sit back until the test case and forget about things, but it's making me angrier by the minute!

 

Anyway, if you've got court coming soon - I'd speak to hadyanth - fantastic outcome!

 

BW, Fzrkitten.

x

[christinajanep]

hi

got it working again lol

[jansus]

Just read your thread - sorry the outcome was not good - but well done you - fantastic for the judge to have listened to you for so long - you obviously did your best and I have nothing but admiration for you . every cloud has a silver lining and I am sure you must have learnt something about yourself in the process - that you can carry on into your future.

 

Jan

[fzrkitten]

Hi Christina, glad you are back - it worked then!

 

Hi Jan, thank you very much, not really sure what I've learnt about myself except perhaps I should take up law or join the police or something, I'm like a rottweiler that won't let go! Still not happy with stay now.

 

I could kind of do with my silver lining right now, so let's hope so eh.

 

Ought to buy some lottery tickets tonight now I've said that!!!

 

Bw,

 

Fzrkitten.

x

[fzrkitten]

Hi,

 

Got this order today after 'case management hearing' last Friday:

 

It is ordered that:

 

Unless the Defendant indicates in writing by 4pm on 14th September 2007 that it does not consent to re-allocation, the matter is re-allocated to the Small Claims Track.

 

1. The claim is stayed until further order to await the final determination including (for the avoidance of doubt) any appeal of the claim between the Office of Fair Trading and seven Defendant Banks issued in the High Court of Justice on the 27th July 2007 Number 2007 Folio 1186 ("the test case").

 

2. Either party may apply upon not less than 7 days written notice to lift the stay.

 

3. The case shall stand struck out if an application to lift or extend the stay is not received by 4pm on 31st July 2008.

 

4. No order for the costs of today.

 

5. For the avoidance of doubt the claim and/or any defence, if struck out by a previous order, is reinstated.

 

Dated 7th September.

 

 

SO, hopefully re-allocated to small claims, fingers crossed for no reply from SC&M by tomorrow 4pm.

 

What to do next? Appeal against stay on grounds that they didn't apply for the stay in time etc (as hadyanth's thread)?

 

Is number 5 because the previous order asked for disclosure, but wasn't complied with, and I asked about it in court, and he said the only order that stood was the re-allocation to fast track one now. So Lloyds get their way?

 

Can't believe 2 things, one that the judge included the appeal in the time scale, and that I have to apply for a stay if it's not decided by 31st July, or it's ME that gets struck out!!! We did ask him to explain that in court, that's definitely what he means.

 

Any ideas anyone on where I stand now anyone?

 

Thanks and BW,

 

Fzrkitten.

x

[fzrkitten]

bump anyone?

[GaryH]

As both parties attended a hearing at which the decision was made you can't apply to object to it. Clause 2 is referring to after the test case finishes.

 

You'd have to appeal the decision to a higher court, which would carry a costs risk and have (IMHO) only a very slim chance of success.

 

Sorry.

[fzrkitten]

Hi Gary,

 

Thanks for clarification, that's all I wanted really. I'll just sit back and forget about it for a while, and just keep in touch and help where I can.

 

Looks like a long wait unless they pull out or something!

 

Guess I'll just have to get another lodger and keep up the car boot sales for a while!

 

Thanks for all your help so far:)

 

Fzrkitten.

[olliebollie]

Hi Fzrkitten

 

Did PM you earlier but caught up on here now.

Really really sorry that things didn't go your way. I was rooting for you on the day. Can't believe its happened as thought you would do well and win, grrrrr really mad for you!!!

Well lets hope the banks get what they deserve in the test case and you and everybody else gets their money back.

 

Keep in touch.

 

Ollie xx

[fzrkitten]

Hi all,

 

Sorry, I've been very quiet and not very useful for a good while, hope you all are ok. Just wanted to catch up if there is any new news on test case? I can't even do anything til after appeal, judge made sure of that, but wondered how things were going?

 

Best wishes,

 

Fzrkitten.

[olliebollie]

Hi fzrkitten,

 

I agree it has be sooooooooooooooo quiet on here, I have popped on now and then to check if you have updated (forgot I was subscribed and would get an e-mail!)

 

Must be frustrating for all waiting for the test case but hopefully the time will soon pass (this year has flown!!) and its going to be sorted and in your favour.

 

Hope alls well with you in other parts of your life.

Ollie

x

[mattemotion]

Hellooo! Hellooo! Hellooo!

 

Echoes a bit in here now doesn't it. Fzr, yours was the first I've heard from this site in weeks!

 

Bet the banks are luvin it.

 

Matt

[Night Owl]

Hi fzrkitten,

its been oh so lonely on here recently.

Everybody is sitting waiting and twiddling their thumbs.

Everybody has been stayed!!!

Both of mine are stayed and I can't afford to remove them and everythin is getting close to the test case so everyone is sitting tight and waiting.

 

Just think of the mounting interest......KERRRRRRRRRRR...........CHING!!!!!

 

Night Owl

[ladyinred]

Yes it has gone very quiet recently. I feel so sorry for those of you that were so close! I had applied for judgement as LLOyds had not met the deadline...doesn't that sound all too familiar....I too have been stayed although no mention was made of how long and no indication was given that i had to reapply or would be thrown out.Does anyone know if there are general time lines in this respect or should i call the court and seek advice. I was unnaware that the high court case would go on so long as it appears it will.

[fzrkitten]

Hi all,

 

made me laugh, echoing in here!

 

I guess the guys/gals that work so hard for the site are working hard on the test case at the mo, we are still reliant on the brains of these wonderful people that have helped us all the way.

 

Did anyone else get stayed the same as me - not only til the end of the test case, but to the end of any appeal as well, AND, if I don't hear anything before end June I think, I have to write to the court or the case will get thrown out, not Lloyds telling them!

 

I have actually tried to forget for a while, it wasn't doing me any good, as I'm sure you all feel the same too!

 

I got on with life and have got a new lodger to help pay the mortgage, so things are a little better, and I've never really taken life seriously for long, so I manage!

 

Hope you are all ok and hanging in there!

 

BW,

 

Fzrkitten

x

[fzrkitten]

Hi all,

 

I haven't really been around for people for a while, (not that you needed me!) hope everyone is ok here, I had a few things going on and I tend to drive myself mad, so I didn't really need lloyds to help! And I haven't felt much use for anyone else for a while - sorry.

 

Let's hope this is the start of a very good year for everyone - what are the general thoughts out there of our chances in the test case?

 

Fzrkitten.