Welcome Finance CCA

[120805]

So got a response from Welcome. A few days ago their debt collection legal team sent a letter and today we got a letter posted threw the door by hand stating that Welcome are taking him to court. He can now defend the case or pay money due.

 

Am trying to get my husband a solicitor as he really does not fancy going into a court room as he feels that Welcome are in the right. Welcome have commited several offences though -They still have supplied no T&C's, no notice of debt being passed on, account still in dispute and they have filled for court.

 

Has anyone got any other thoughts or views on this matter. My husband is feeling very low in confidence when it comes to fighting these guys and any help would be much appreciated. :?

[LAN01]

Have they issued a court summons or just threatened to take you to court?

[120805]

They have issued a court summons. He has until 3rd of August to respond or hearing will be the 10th of August.

 

Has anyone got any advice for him?

[LAN01]

Have you tried contacting Laiste? She is a solicitor and is very good advising people what to do on these matters. Try sending her a pm.

 

I'm afraid I can't advise you on this

 

Lan

[120805]

Ive just PM'd her. Thankyou for that

[LAN01]

Good luck with it and I am here to offer any support I can

 

Lan

[Laiste]

Hi 120805,

 

I got your PM. Can I ask, have you received a pack from the Court? It will have been issued by the Bulk Centre at Northampton. The reason I ask is, I am baffled by your comments regarding having until the 3rd Aug to respond, or a hearing will take place on the 10th? When you receive a claim pack, the Court allows 5 days for service, and then a further 28 days to file the acknowledgement of service and file a defence and possible counter-claim. Then depending upon the value of the claim it is allocated to one of the three tracks-small claims, fast track or multi track. Whichever track it is, it takes a number of months before any hearing takes place, small claims hearings taking the shortest amount of time to schedule, as they are the most straightforward type of case.

 

I would be grateful if you could clarify the hearing issue for me.

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[120805]

Hi Laiste, thankyou for looking at my thread.

 

The letter that came through the door is titled Form 1a Summary Cause Summons and section 6 of the form reads - Return Day 3 August 2007, Hearing Date 10 August 2007 at 9.45am. The claim is for £1354.11 with interest at a rate of 8%.

 

Hope this helps

[posiepain]

Hello all, I just wanted to ask a quick question if I may before I start my own thread re welcome?

 

I have an o/s hp agreement with welcome, I no longer have the car, but am still paying for it (and will be for the rest of my days no doubt). I have a query about the document fee that is mentioned here being included in the credit amount. I also have a fee which is included in the total amount payable of £150 but it is called an acceptance fee. Could the agreement be challenged on this basis as per the link someone put up?

 

Any ideas would be welcomed (pardon the pun)!

[120805]

Can anyone help me please? I really need some advice with regards to the summons?

[Laiste]

Hi,

 

Sorry I haven't got back to you, I'm very busy. You need to ring the County Court (where the order was issued from) first thing in the morning and ask for as many details as possible in respect of the scheduled hearing. Don't be fobbed off with vague or glib answers, and if needs be ask to speak to the manager. Not all Court staff are well informed, so make sure you leave the conversation satisfied with what you can expect to happen at the hearing and what documents you will need to have with you.

 

Kind regards,

 

Laiste.

 

P.S. Post back when you have these details.

[120805]

Thankyou for your response Laiste, I can understand that you must be very busy and I appreciated all your help.My husband will phone the court in the morning.

 

We have had another thought that I was wondering if you could advise me on. My husband passed this account onto a debt management programme and we paid reduced payments for around 2 years through the DMP. Should a new agreement of been issued as the arrangement made for reduced payments would of changed the original agreement I would of thought?

 

Kind regards,

 

120805

[Laiste]

Hi,

 

A debt management plan invariably changes the original agreement as you are paying less than would ordinarily be expected of you. Depending on what arrangements the Company have made on your behalf, interest may have been frozen, of course pmts are reduced and the plan is usually reviewable after a specified period in order to re-examine your circumstances. I am speaking generally, because different Companies in discussion with creditors, reach different arrangements. Have you paid to enter into this DMP? The reason I ask is that there are Companies that offer services for free.

 

I have just realised that one of the reasons I was baffled by the Order that you have received is because you are in Scotland, doh! What a cretin I am! I am only familiar with the law relating to England & Wales. Don't worry though, there are others here who have a lot of experience with Scottish law. The guy that springs to mind immediately is Robertx-yes I'm sure that's his name and he is extremely well informed and has a lot of experience. Let me suggest that you PM one of the moderators and ask them to contact him for you (as I may have got his name slightly wrong, but they will know him, he might even be a moderator) I think this is the best course of action, as the last thing I want to do is give you bad information that falls foul of your system.

 

If you have probs getting in touch with a mod and/or Robert let me know and I will do what I can to help.

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

[monopoly23]

Hi, I think Laiste means Robertxc, if you're thinking of the moderator that is.

[Robertxc]

From your thread it looks like you accept that you owe the money and they've provided you with a copy of the signed loan agreement. Is this correct? Assuming it is, if I were in your position I would be looking at damage limitation. CCA requests are ok, but are only realy effective at preventing legal action if they fail to provide the signed credit agreement. Technically they're also supposed to provide "a true copy of any other document mentioned in it", but the reality is that if they provide the signed credit agreement that will be enough for the court. you could try insisting on the absolute letter of the law, but you will probably just end up looking like you're trying to get out of a legitimate debt, which won't go down well with the sheriff at all! On the forms you got from the court there should have been a bit about 'time to pay'. If you're not disputing the debt I suggest that you fill this in. In my experience of many many hours sat in Dunfermline Sheriff Court waiting for my case to call it seems that the general rule of thumb is that time to pay requests that mean the debt will be cleared within three years are almost always accepted by the sheriff. I must stress that this is only my impression from having watched endless council tax cases in Dunfermline, it may be different elsewhere. Maybe you could split the outstanding amount into 36 payments and see how you go.

[120805]

Thankyou for your response Robertxc,

 

I didnt realise that you are from Dunfermline we are also from their and that is where Welcome (from Gardners St) have filed for court.

 

Will my husband still have to appear in court if he makes an offer to repay?

 

And should Welcome of supplied him with a new agreement when reduced payments where arranged?

 

My husband does owe the money and will repay but we sent off for the CCA in the hope of them not having one as we have alot of debts that we simply cannot afford.

 

Kind Regards

 

120805

[Robertxc]

I think he will still have to appear - best to phone the court and ask them. The clerks in Dunfermline are very friendly and helpful. I don't think they would need to send a new agreement, I can't think why they would. I understand your point about the CCA request. As far as I'm aware no-one has ever actually gone to court and asked for a debt to be wiped out simply because the lender couldn't provide a copy of the agreement. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I've never heard of it. There have been some reports of lenders writing off a debt that they couldn't substantiate, but I'd be pretty surprised if a sheriff did it. Generally when a debt is disputed in small claims or summary cause the sheriff asks people very plainly to explain exactly the circumstances (i.e. "did you borrow the money or not?"). I have difficulty believing that a sheriff would let you off with it if you answered in the affirmative!

[PriorityOne]

Hey everyone my husband has recently sent a CCA request to welcome finance, and they responded with a copy of it, however, the copy given does not have any T&C's attached, does not have a total amount due on it and does not have a cancellations procedure, is this still enforceable or have they not done what he asked in his request

 

Thanks in advance.

 

If they have supplied you with a CCA with no "total amount due" on it, then I am curious to know the figure that they will be trying to re-enforce in court... signed or not. You should have received a Statement of Account from them along with the CCA.... in order for you to see any payments made and the amount still outstanding.

 

Do you know if they have applied any unlawful charges to the account ?

[120805]

I dont know if they have applied any charges or not. If they have then we have never been told about them. Would it be worth doing a SAR? The statements might not arrive before the court hearing though which is in first week of August.

[PriorityOne]

It might be worth doing the SAR... but as you say.... it's unlikely to produce a result in time.

 

In your defence however, you should be able to state that you are disputing the CCA as being improperly executed.....no figures, (no APR either ?), no t&c's, no cancellation procedure, etc. How can a document with no figures on it be enforced ?... and... where is the proof that there is anything owing on the account if they have failed to supply you with a Statement of Account ?

 

I have not (yet) had to file defence, so you will need help with this.... but keep your chin up.... there is plenty of help on here.

 

Thoughts anyone ?

 

[120805]

Thankyou for your help PriorityOne. Am not too sure if you realise but there is actually figures on the agreement (they are blanked off on the one in thread). What confuses me about the figures is that the only part that states the total amount repayable comes under a heading "Total amount of loan". The figure that comes next to this only includes the actual loan and ppi. It does not include the whole amount thats repayable including interest anywhere on the agreement.

 

Thankyou for raising the point about the statement of accounts not being supplied. It never really occured to me that they cant prove any outstanding debt without them:)

 

Thankyou for your help, it is very much appreciated

[monopoly23]

I think you can request SAR information under the CPR rules. They have 10 days to provide it.

[120805]

How would I go about requesting a SAR under the CPR rules?

[monopoly23]

I would suggest writing Next this letter (courtesy of laiste)

Address

Miss

XXXXX

XXXXX

XXXXX

 

 

XXxx July 2007

 

Claim Number: XXX XXXXX

Account Number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I have received the Court claim filed by your company. To enable me to file a defence and counter-claim, I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below. The information must be furnished by the (10 days from date of letter), which gives you ten days to provide what has been requested. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

The following information is required:-

 

I hereby request all data that Welcome Finance hold on me from all relevant filing systems, to include a complete list of all transactions and charges on the account formerly held with Welcome Finance. I also require a transcript of all recorded phone calls pertinent to this account and all notes made in relation to those calls.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my accounthistory over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of Welcome Finance, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held with Welcome Finance.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

A true copy of the original signed agreement between Welcome Finance and myself.

 

Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

 

Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

A true copy of any Default Notice issued in respect of this account.

 

I look forward to your co-operation in this matter and receiving the documentation by the (10 days from date).

 

 

Additionally, as the information requested contains sensitive personal details, I expect it to be sent by guaranteed next day delivery, to ensure its safe arrival.

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Miss/Mr XXXXX

 

 

I would also send a copy of the letter to their solicitors.

Amend it to suit.

I wasn't told to send the £10 payment because it is under CPR rules not the DPA 1974, but Next mentioned this in their letter to me saying that as I hadnt included it, they wouldn't send any archived data, but it was only about 3 months worth I didnt get.

It's up to you if you send it or not.

 

 

[120805]

Thanks for the letter.