Sleepless nights

[frenchconnection]

Hello to everyone I hope im in the right place to start a new thread of my own. I started back in February with letter to the bank regarding my charges (had all statements so didnt need to ask them for copies) I used all the templates from the money saving expert site. I got a letter back stating that they couldnt trace account and could I send copy of a statement. I sent copy as requested. Then I got a letter two later saying they needed more time to look into my complaint.Two weeks after that i got a letter saying they needed a further four weeks. I wrote back and told them they had two weeks to reply or i was going to make a claim in the court with interest blah blah. Still havent had a reply. Last wednesday i rang local court and they said do it on line so i used the mcol site and filled in the poc using the template on the moneysaving expert site. Ive now found the CAG site and found to my horror that i have not given enough info on it. Ive been given advice from Gary's thread to wait for ltsb defence which im going to do. And im going to use temple letter to send 2 copies of my schedule which i did not attach . I did ring the mcol helpline when entering my claim and they told me i couldnt attach anything?? so i thought i had done right and paid the £250 fee. Ive recieved a letter from the court with the case no on etc and that it will be served on the bank tomorrow 17/4/07. I am also worried incase ive filled the name in wrong. My account is a business account and ive used my name and home address. Is this wrong? or will i be ok as correspondence to bank had had all info and both address on it. Also when i send the court the two copies of my schedule i will put my home and business address on it. I am really worried, its very daunting and ive had sleepless nights. I thought i had done well to get this far but im afraid i may have really spoilt my changes of winning by making silly mistakes and although the site i was using was helpful im disapointed that the template for the most important document was innacurate.

 

I would be grateful for any advice or encouragment cos i feel lost:(

[GaryH]

Hiya, well done for starting a thread, and yes, it is in the right place!

 

Don't worry - there is nothing here which cannot be sorted. Your just getting the usual jitters which always happen to everyone about now. Everyone thinks that they've done something wrong which means they'll lose, or that they'll be the first to go to court, etc. Its only natural to feel a bit like that. No need for sleepless nights - its the bank who'll be having them when they receive yet another claim tomorrow! You'll be fine.

 

Anyway, I don't suppose they told you on MSE that you can't use the consumer regulations for a business claim, did they? I doubt it, but they should have. Still, your amending anyway so not to worry. See the business claims guide for more info - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/64975-business-claims-basic-guide.html

[frenchconnection]

Thanks Gary

 

I will take a look at the business claims guide now to prepare myself in advance of my ammendment. And yes you are correct they didnt mention anything about business claims being different.

 

Up till now I was fine doing the letters etc. Its just the thought of making mistakes and ruining my chances thats making me feel jitery and upset. Its is definately a weight off my mind knowing theres people out there like yourself who are willing to give your wonderful advice. for free, I cant thank you enough.

 

Best wishes Sue:)

[GaryH]

You're very welcome - its what CAG's all about!

 

We're right behind you;)

[frenchconnection]

Just looked at the business information link you gave me. Cheers:)

 

I must say the information and templates are excellent

 

Getting the hang of this now

 

thanks Gary

 

X X X Sue X X X

[frenchconnection]

Me again

 

im just doing letter for mco enclosing schedule of penalty charges using the template. as i am a business customer will the sentence

 

...annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court act. ...

 

Is this bit ok to to put in or is there something different i should be saying being a business customer. Dont want to get this bit wrong aswell.

 

thanks

[nicsussex]

Yes that is fine

[frenchconnection]

Thank you nicsussex

[frenchconnection]

Received a letter from Lloyds on the 17th April

 

It is from Andover- Kerry Parfitt - customer services recovery

 

It reads:-

 

I wrote to you four weeks ago to update you on our investigation of your complaint.

 

I am really sorry we are still not in a position to respond fully to your complaint. Because we have not responded fully yet, i want to ensure you understand your rights. So I am enclosing the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) explanatory leaflet, which sets out their role and how to make contact.

 

You will see from this leaflet that you do have the right to refer your complaint to the Ombudsman if you are unhappy with the delay. However, I would be grateful if you could bear with us for a little so that we may try and reach an amicable conclusion.

 

I will continue to monitor the progress of your complaint and wouldl like to take this chance to thank you for your continued patience.

 

 

Well Since my first letter on the 2nd Feb this is the response to my LBA??

 

I still have not had any bog off letter as they still havent had time to even look into my claim according to this letter!!

 

Dont know what to think but its too late because my patience ran out when I went ahead and made a claim through the Money Claim website.

 

Anyone else had a similar letter?

[nicsussex]

It is perfectly standard waffle - ignore it - LTSB are so behind with all their claims - because of their attitude of stalling and dragging things out - continue with your claim as usual and keep us posted

[frenchconnection]

Received a letter from the court today:(

 

The bank have filed and acknowledgement yesterday so I guess I will be waiting 28 days for their defence?

 

Im a bit scared but now I have found this site my confidence has grown as I know that Im not alone.

 

Thanks to all :grin:

[frenchconnection]

At last I have recieved a letter from the bank saying "Bog off" and that the charges for bounced cheques and unpaid direct debits are not default charges????? it reads:-

 

Thank you for getting in touch with us. I am sorry you are unhappy about your account charges.

 

Like any business, we do make a charge for some of our extra services. When customers don't have enough money in their accounts to cover a payment, this always means exta work - and it has to happen very quickly. We have to agree to make the payment by setting up or increasng an overdaft,or tell customers we can't agree it. We feel it's fair to charge for this service.

 

We make sure our charges are available for customer by makings sure they are published in or charge brochure.

 

If you know a payment is going to take you over your agreed limit, your'e welcome to see if ther'es anything we can do.

 

The Office of Fair Trading has published new guidelines on credit card default charges. We're still talking it throught with them, but the important point is that the guidelines are about "default" charges that people pay when they break and agreement with us. This doesnt appy to your charges as these were dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit. (no they wernt) they are not default charges because your haven't broken your agreement. They are our prices for the service we provide in these situations. Ive noticed that you've referred to the Unfair Contracts terms in Act 1977 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Relations but these dont apply to you as you're a business customer and these acts and regulations only apply to consumers.(I only found this out when i joined this site, but had already refered to these acts in my letters)

I do hope you can see that we make our charging system as fair as possible- and why i can't agree to refund or cancel your charges.

 

I hope this fully answer the points you raised with us. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help. If we cannot come to an agreement, I will provide you with details of the Financial Ombudsman Service so they can consider your complaint independently.

 

If you are happy with the way I have dealt with your complaint, there is no need for you to reply to my letter. If I have not heard from you by 7/6/07 I will close my file, though of course I will re-open it should you come back at any point afterwards.

 

Yours sincerely Sarah Brooks (Miss)

Customer Service Recovery Centre Andover

 

Has anyone had such a reply as this? I cant understand why shes saying that the £7K charges I have incurred are not default charges? Is this just another of their ways of trying to get out of paying? Do you think I should reply to this? I checked today on the moneyclaim site and the bank have put in a defence on 12/5/07 I havent recieved anything in the post yet but i guess i will tomorrow. Would I be wasting my time replying? If you think i should reply can someone give me an idea of what to say please. Any advice would be greatly appreciated ..Thank You

[empowered]

Totally ignore this letter - bog standard stuff. I claimed for a business a/c (sole trader) against Lloyds (see empowered v Lloyds) and you can follow my rose strewn path from there! The whole thing took 10 weeks and they settled 2 days after sending their defence. You are doing fine!

[nicsussex]

perfectly standard letter - no point in replying as you have already started claim

[frenchconnection]

Thanks empowered and nicsussex I thought it was just standard stuff. I wont bother to reply. Just await the defence now and see what they have to say.

 

Thanks again

 

Sue xx

[frenchconnection]

Today 19/5/07 I have received Lloyds defence from the court on the top letter the allocation questionnaire bit has had a line put through it. The next page says 1. the filing of an allocation questionnaire be despensed with in this case unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise.

Please note that an allocation fee may be payable in this instance. Please contact the court of transfer for further details. (any idea how much this will cost and if i dont need to complete an allocation questionnaire do i just wait for a court date and take my evidence(court bundle)? or do I have to do something else before i get a court date?

The defence reads:-

The full amount of the claim has been disputed.

 

1. By opening an account with the Bank, the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking services. At account opening a customer is provided with details of the Bank's charges, currently in a leaflet a guide to our banking charges. By using the account, the customer acknowledges that the charges are incorported into the contract. For personal customers, a number of services are provided for free, notwithstanding that they are an expense to the Bank. Such services presently include, but are not limited to providing:

Cheques

bank statements

the facility to make payments by direct debit and standing order

debit cards

ATM's (cash machines)

 

2. By maintaining the account in credit, or within any limit agreed with the Bank, the customer may avoid most if not all charges. If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments, whether by cheque, debit card, standing order or direct debit, the customer makes a request for a payment to be made from the Banks own funds. If the Bank makes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract. On page 1 of the leaflet the bank explains that there is normally no charge for everyday banking at Lloyds TSB when your account is in credit. When you use an agreed overdraft there is no monthly fee and we only charge interest on the amount you are overdrawn each day. When you go overdrawn without an agreement or where you use special services such as copy statements we will make a charge. This guide explains how these charges work and when they will appy. When you want to use a service that isnt listed we will give you the cost of that service before you give us the go ahead.

3. There is no breach of contract, the charges cannot therefore be a penalty consequently there is no requirement that the charges be a pre-estimate of the banks loss.

4. The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed, statments show the charges the customer has incurred during the course of the month which will appear as debits on the following months statement. Customers are warned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their agreed limit without arrangement with the bank. If the customer fails to remedy the position and payment such as standing orders and direct debits are refused then again the customer is warned by letter.

5. The charges are fair and reasonable and it is denied that they are unlawful.

6. The customers are notified of the charges in plain intelligible language at the conclusion of the contract and on each monthly statement. The charges are terms which relate to the price payable by the customer for the service provided by the bank and persuant to regulation 6 of the unfair terms in consumer contract regulations 1999 are not subject to the assessment of fairness.

7. In the premises

 

Ok so after reading this all Lloyds defence applies to a personal account customer, I am a business customer. All my letters to Lloyds state this and as you can see by the last letter from Andover they pointed out that i was a business and that the unfair terms in consumer contract regs 1999 didnt apply to me. So have the solicitors SCM made a mistake here?? Will this be a problem for me? do i need to ammend my claim because i quoted wrong regulations? Being a business customer you do pay fees for overdrafts. Service charges are already identifed on my bank statments the unpaid direct debit/ cheques are detailed as unpaid items not service charges and are applied the same day. No advance notice is given.

 

Help - Can anyone give me some advice please? thank you

[GaryH]

Its the standard defence - although strangly it contains 7 points as opposed to the usual 9.

1. the filing of an allocation questionnaire be despensed with in this case unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise.

Please note that an allocation fee may be payable in this instance. Please contact the court of transfer for further details. (any idea how much this will cost and if i dont need to complete an allocation questionnaire do i just wait for a court date and take my evidence(court bundle)? or do I have to do something else before i get a court date?

The AQ being dispensed with is standard now. You need to ring the court though and find out if the allocation fee still applies - it may do if your claim is over £1500. If it does its £100.

 

Just wait for a court date. When you receive it there will be directions telling you what you need to submit by way of evidence (your court bundle). Post it here when it arrives and we'll tell you what you need.

 

Defence is standard, except it contains 2 less points than usual.

 

No need to amend.

[frenchconnection]

I was just concerned that the defence seemed to be talking as if i was a personal account customer and not a business account customer. ?

Thank you very much;) your help is much appreciated

[GaryH]

That's their problem. All you need do now is sit tight and wait for your court date.

[frenchconnection]

Today I have recieved a General Form of Judgement Order

 

Date on order 7th June 2007

 

It states

 

Before DEPUTY DISTRICT JUDGE WILLIS sitting at Hartlepool County Court, The Law Courts, Victoria Road, Hartlepool TS24 8BS

 

Upon the Courts own motion. The Court has made this order of its own initiative without a hearing. If you object to the order, you must make an application to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of receiving it.

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. The Claimant shall file and serve upon the Defendant a detailed particulars of claim setting out each and every charge alleged to have been incurred by way of penalty, by 4pm on 29th June, in default of which the claim shall be struck out.

 

2. The defendant be granted permission to file and serve upon thje Claimant an amended defence by 4pm on 13th July 2007, if so advised.

 

Date 31.May 2007

 

Oh no? what does this now mean, I was expecting to get a court date?

Will it mean that the bank can object and have it set aside, varied or stayed?

 

Or is that for me to do?

 

What exactly does that mean? Im sorry I just havent a clue.

 

Should I just send of my court bundle to Lloyds? the court has not asked for a copy? Why?

 

Do you think this is a good thing for me? Will the judge be fed up of the banks not turning up and so he has done this?

 

Any advice and what to do now would be grately appreciated. :confused:

[GaryH]

Don't read anything into the wording on the order, its the standard wording for orders made without the parties being present.

 

All you need to worry about is this bit -

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. The Claimant shall file and serve upon the Defendant a detailed particulars of claim setting out each and every charge alleged to have been incurred by way of penalty, by 4pm on 29th June, in default of which the claim shall be struck out

That means the judge is asking you to submit a new particulars of claim, along with a schedule of charges.

 

Send in the N1 POC, although there is no need for the actual N1 form. Heres the link -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/64975-business-claims-basic-guide.html (3/4 of the way down)

head it like this;

Claim number:*******

In The XXXXXXX County Court

 

between:

 

[YOU]

 

 

and

 

 

LLOYDS TSB BANK PLC

 

 

____________________

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

____________________

1.............

Print off 3 copies and 3 copies of your schedule. Send one to Lloyds, and send one to the court along with a certificate of service, here -

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n215_0106.pdf

 

Keep the last copy for yourself.

 

Get that off well before the date stated then await further instructions. No need to worry about bundles yet - that comes much later.

[frenchconnection]

Hi Gary

 

Oh Thank you very very much for your advice I will do that over the weekend and report back when Ive got it together and sent it.

 

Thank again for your valued advice and quick response

 

[GaryH]

you're welcome.

[frenchconnection]

Can I just ask that when I complete the POC can I adjust the amount Im claiming. Im asking this as last week I just received the copies from the bank detailing all the charges made on my account( I used actual statements but some of the early ones were missing)So I hadnt claimed enough about £400 short. Or should I just stick to the amounts claimed on the moneyclaim and letters originally sent to the bank.? Also do i need to ammend the interest to date or leave it at the amount on the moneyclaim.

 

Thank you

[GaryH]

Hmmm... not sure on that one tbh. If you were making a normal amendment you could, but as you've been requested by the court to substitute your POC I'm not sure.

 

I would actually, yes. Include the extra. Lloyds are getting the opportunity to file an amended defence so actually yes it should be fine.

 

Yes, include the interest to date.