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Time to punish these greedy HSBC bankers


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Have taken in the majority of posts on this website today - and having been charged twice for the same transaction last month (i complained but the bank simply confirmed the charges) this has made me more than angry enough to follow this through...

 

£912 after interest in 6 years! I certainly hope that the advise given here is right, to the people who set up this website I salute you :D

 

will keep you all informed as to my progress...

 

to anybody who is not sure, ask yourself what have you got to lose compared to the amount you could gain? in my case it is a lot so this is well worth persuing imho

 

 

 

 

 

edit: 22nd March

 

For anybody contemplating taking action against HSBC, sign up for internet banking straight away! This will give you your statements for the last 6 years, and using this was the reason my case has developed so quickly! Don't bother with all the DPA stuff it could take a hell of a long time

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After posting the letter on Friday, I today had three missed calls on my mobile today from an 08000 number... which when rung back was a standard answer machine message from hsbc saying that someone has attempted to call myself, and that I did not have to ring them back... I will wait for a written reply before speaking to anybody over the phone from the bank.

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Bookworm010363, thanks for the encouragement... here is the latest update:

 

Today I answered the phone to 'Gareth Deans' Senior Customer Relations Clerk in Edinburgh (this is where I had sent the original letter last Friday, which was pretty much the same as the draft 1st letter in the Library - barring one or two minor alterations). Unfortunately I did not get the chance to record the conversation but all calls to the bank are recorded and can be replayed in a local branch if needed (I asked this).

 

During the conversation I made notes of various quotes by Mr Deans, who told me that "There is nothing wrong with these charges" and "I am advising that you are not entitled to these charges". I informed him that it was to my recent knowledge that these charges were unlawful and were penalty charges he returned that "the charges are in no sense illegal".

 

After over 10 minutes on the phone he advised me that he was 'closing the case' - when I asked why he gave me an address for Customer Relations in London to write to if I wanted to take this matter further. As I had told him that I was prepared to go to court to prove these charges were unlawful he seemed to not want to deal with it himself.

 

I am going to write a letter to Customer Relations (in the same style as Richard Simkiss' letter in another post) and send it recorded delivery, giving them two seven day periods in order to act accordingly.

 

This conversation today has made me even more eager to get these charges returned now....

 

The address for Customer Relations is as follows, for anybody deciding to take the first step themselves I think this would probably be the best place to write to rather than the Edinburgh address at the top of this forum.

 

FAO The Manager

Customer Relations Dept.

HSBC Bank PLC

Level 36

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

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Good to see you're determined to stick it to them... of course bare in mind that you could well end up in court, in front of a judge, but it sounds like you're happy to do that.

 

Personally (following advice of Dave and Bankfodder) I have continued to send all my letters to my local branch... that way if/when you file your court claim (against your local branch) it would end up in a local court. For what it's worth it seems to me that the letters I send to my branch get forwarded on to customer relations anyway.

 

I s'pose you could cut out the middle man but hey, I'd rather leave the matter for them to sort out. You'll probably only get the same response out of them anyway!

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I informed him that it was to my recent knowledge that these charges were unlawful and were penalty charges he returned that "the charges are in no sense illegal".

 

I like the lovely nuance this man brought to your conversation. The charges are certainly not illegal, but they most certainly are unlawful. A bank manager versed in semantics... How quaint! :wink:

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I have sent the letter to Canada Square London, and a copy to my branch, both recorded delivery today. I have also put in the letter that I only wish to communicate via written letter to avoid any more phone calls! If I appear in court then so be it, this has to be done.

 

I think I will write another letter to Mr Deans when I finally have these charges returned, to tell him that he was wrong... :lol:

 

here is the letter I have sent yesterday - as I say its an edited version of richardsimkiss' letter (thanks!!):

 

 

MY ADDRESS

 

7th March 2006

 

The Manager

Customer Relations Department

HSBC Bank PLC

Level 36

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

 

Dear Sir,

 

Account Number

Sort Code:

 

This letter is a result of a previous letter (a copy is enclosed) to HSBC Customer Services in Edinburgh, and a telephone conversation on Tuesday 7th March with Mr Gareth Deans, Senior Customer Support Clerk, who advised me to write to yourselves.

 

I have held the above mentioned current account with your bank for numerous years and since turning the age of 18 in 1998 my account has spent the majority of it’s time overdrawn, in addition to this I have held a credit card with yourselves and taken out more than one loan. Whilst being in debt with HSBC, I have incurred charges for various reasons, such as exceeding my overdraft limit, ‘Card Misuse’ fees and Direct Debits being returned. I am now in a position without debts on my HSBC current account, though I feel that much of my time in debt, particularly over the last year when verging on the edge of my overdraft limit, was not helped by the numerous charges applied to the account, which inevitably led to more charges.

 

It is my opinion, and that of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), that these charges are punitive in nature. It is true to say that as a bank you may apply a charge to a customers account, but only to the extent of covering costs to reimburse your losses for a breach of contract occurring. I feel it unfair that where a breach of contract has arisen in the past, charges of as much as £125 in a calendar month have been applied when the true cost to the bank would appear to be the cost of sending a computer generated letter (and in some cases the charge only being shown on my monthly statement) informing myself of the charge.

 

I would like to point out that further to the 1999 Consumer Credit Regulations quoted by the OFT, there are numerous cases in law that prove that punitive charges in contracts are unenforceable at English law.

 

Murray v Leisureplay (2004)

Dunlop Tyre Company v New Garage and Motor Co. (1915)

Bridge v. Campbell Discount Co. Ltd. (1962)

 

There are many more cases of this type – far more than I have room to list here.

 

Further to these cases, I also believe these charges to be a direct breach of the 1977 Unfair Terms (contracts) Act, which require that contract terms be reasonable. I do not believe these charges are reasonable as outlined in the aforementioned act.

 

With this in mind, I respectfully request that you return to me all charges made on this account in the last 6 years within 7 days of receipt of this letter by way of personal cheque or direct credit to the account in addition to a confirmation letter. If you do not respond or you do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 7 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments. Please do not attempt to contact me by telephone, I wish to communicate with you via written letter. If you choose not to return my charges, I will start proceedings for recovery in the County Courts, as I believe that legally I am entitled to this money back. By doing so, you will be eligible for my court costs and for an extra 8% APR as allowed by the County Courts Act (1984).

 

As stated in my previous letter, the total charges for the 6-year period total £812, with another £100.14 interest at 8% (Total £912.14). I enclose my previous letter (dated 3RD March 2006) written to Customer Services in Edinburgh, and will also be sending a copy of this letter and my previous letter to my local branch in Aintree.

 

Yours faithfully,

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..... today I have recieved the following (somewhat confusing) letter...

 

10 March 2006

 

Dear Mr .......

 

Your reference.......

 

Thank you for your recent telephone call concerning the recent circumstances regarding your account.

 

I am looking into the matters you have raised and will contact you with a full response as soon as I have completed my investigations.

 

In the meantime, I enclose a copy of our leaflet which explains how these matters are dealt with.

 

Yours sincerley

 

[p.p. signature]

 

David L Johnson

Customer Service Officer

 

 

Now this letter has arrived with a Swansea postmark and refers to my one and only telephone call which I made to Mr Deans on 7 March, however Mr Deans told me that he was 'closing the case' and that I should write to the Canada Square (London) Customer Services address if I wanted to take this further, which is why I find a follow up letter to that telephone call a tad peculiar :roll: . That phone call (and my first letter) was dealt with in Edinburgh.

 

The first seven day deadline is this Thursday and I will send my second letter to the Canada Square address (and a copy to my branch) regardless of the above letter...

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That's the way to do it.

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OK - Thursday 16th March, time for the final letter before action which will be sent tomorrow and recieved by HSBC either Saturday or Monday... I am again sending the letter to Canada Square with a copy to Aintree (my branch). here goes:

 

 

 

My name + Address

 

16th March 2006

 

The Manager

Customer Relations Department

HSBC Bank PLC

Level 36

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

 

Account Number

Sort Code

 

Dear Sir,

 

Following from my previous letter (dated 7th March 2006), I received a letter from David L Johnson, Customer Service Officer (dated 10th March 2006; Reference ******), acknowledging a previous telephone conversation with Gareth Deans, Senior Customer Support Clerk regarding bank charges on my account and stated that I would be contacted when investigations were complete. Whilst I appreciate HSBC are looking into the matter, the lack of any specific response dates are not acceptable.

 

As stated in my second letter (a copy of which was sent to my account holding branch) which has been confirmed as delivered, I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations. I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

HSBC have seven days from receipt of this letter to refund the charges by way of personal cheque or direct credit to the account. Should HSBC refuse to refund the charges within seven days I will start proceedings for recovery in the County Courts where HSBC will be eligible for an extra 8% APR as allowed by the County Courts Act (1984) which I have calculated to be an additional £100.14 (One Hundred Pounds and Fourteen pence) in addition to my court costs. Please be assured that proceedings will start on Monday 27th March 2006 to claim the sum on £812 (Eight Hundred and Twelve Pounds) plus court costs, unless the matter is resolved.

 

Please note that only full satisfaction of my request within 7 days will interrupt this process. I feel 7 days is a reasonable period of time for HSBC to resolve the issue and will not delay proceedings. In addition, any offer of a partial refund will be refused as I believe I am legally entitled to this money. Once again I would ask that you do not attempt to contact me by telephone as I wish to communicate with you via written letter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Full Name

 

c.c. Aintree Branch

 

my determination to succeed is now stronger than ever! :x:wink:

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In five days the deadline runs out and the claim goes in. Unsurprisingly I have not heard from HSBC since the 'we are investigating' letter...

 

I have prepared the moneyclaim, as follows:

I have a contract with the defendant bank dated 20/10/1997 and which is conducted on their standard terms and

conditions.

I am claiming the return of money taken by the defendant in the way of

charges over the last 6 years plus the interest they have levied on those charges. The bank's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law.

Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair(Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer

Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2 (1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year for the amount of £100.14.

 

 

On the moneyclaim website it recommends including the following paragraph:

"The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from {date when the money became owed to you} to {the date you are issuing the claim} of £ {put the amount} and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of ???? {enter the daily rate of interest}."

 

However I am have not included the second half of the above paragraph as I am not claiming a daily interest rate after the initial calculation of £100.14 interest. Is this OK?

Also if anybody has any tips or advice on the text above, it would be appreciated....

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OK, so its now exactly 2 weeks to the day that I have recieved any communication from HSBC, and yesterday my second deadline passed. The money claim was entered yesterday and is deemed to be served on 2nd April, HSBC therefore now have until 16th April to respond to the claim (but as this is Easter Sunday they basically have until the 18th). I'll keep you all updated with any developments however i'm not expecting any until that date!

I've also sent an email to bank action HQ for the litigation section.

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An unexpectedly quick response, HSBC have acknowledged the claim on Weds 29th and have marked that they intend to defend all of the claim. This gives them four weeks from the date the claim was served to file a defence, I believe that this will either be the 25th or 26th April, which means that I've got around a month to wait if they decide not to defend, and if they do? Thats when the fun really begins I suppose...

 

I recieved postal notice of the above from Northampton County Court today, got to be honest the nerves are starting to set in a little however I am still 101% committed to following this through.

 

*edited after I worked out the final defence date*

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 12 years later...

This topic was closed on 03/06/19.

If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support their.

If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened.

- Consumer Action Group

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