Copy of your credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - Way to go?

[techtalkonline]

I just wanted to see what those in the know think about this. I honestly do not remember ever having signed a credit agreement with Egg. I may well have done and just simply forgotten about it, but what if i didn't sign one?

 

What i am asking is:

 

1. If no signed credit agreement can be produced, is it worthwhile pursuing this to attempt to get the account discharged?

See here -> http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/80248-tesco-visa-no-cca.html

 

2. As Egg's charges are close to the outstanding balance, is it better to just proceed with reclaiming the charges via the usual route?

 

3. I did see a template letter under the "Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner" and wondered if this letter was appropriate?

• Letter N - Ask your creditor for a copy of your credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

There was another post regarding these issues, about 90 pages long last time i looked, but do you think I can find it now? Anyway, please give your feedback on these issues.

[gizmo111]

It al depends on wht you want to acheive?

[techtalkonline]

What i wanted to achieve initially, was the refund of £796ish in charges. At the time i started my claim with the SAR to Egg, they were playing hardball and claims were taking forever to get to the court stages and then getting set aside etc, etc.

 

I then noticed the CCA posts and thought i would ask if this would be a way to get the Egg card account discharged, as at present the outstanding balance is very near to the amount i would claim in unfair charges.

 

So basically, all i wish to achieve is to get £800ish one way or another, depending upon which way was going to be quicker, see?

[ian1969uk]

In this case go the charges route, far less trouble in the long run as they will not mess up your credit record like they may do if you simply refuse to pay due to a lack of CCA.

 

Egg are also one of the companies that tend to be able to produce an agreement, there may be some issues with it but it is unlikely to be completely unenforceable.

[kopkid]

hi does any one know if i can cca any of the following;

1 sky television

2 mobile phone companys

[ian1969uk]

hi does any one know if i can cca any of the following;

1 sky television

2 mobile phone companys

 

Sorry, no.

[blencathra]

Hi I have posted 4 recorded delivery letters asking for my credit agreements the last day of the 12 is up on the 7th December 2007.

Friday

As of today i have not received a copy of any infact no response at all but one has said they will try to find it but would reply inside another 21 days way over the legal requirement. What is the next step if i dont get any response withing the 12 day requirement Cheers Dave

[blencathra]

Well thats it the 12 days are up and still no replies to my request for the credit agreement. But they kept my postal orders cheeky things.

I contacted . Littlewoods ...Capital One ..TSB and another one for a friend likes to help out. I am not giving up hell no way

 

Cheers Dave

[blencathra]

Following on my thread. Today i received a letter from Little woods (28.12.2007) Written on the 20.12.2007 In reply to my original letter posted 20.11..2007 asking for my CCA. I have since sent them the second letter saying the account is un enforceable. that was posted on the 14.12.2007 Littlewoods state that i have an assurance that my query is being dealt with and the details i gave have been passed to the relevant department. They do not even say which letter they are dealing will or any time scales. Nothing surprises me any more about

Littlewoods as this problem has been going on now since July 2005.That was the last time i made any payments. As i made them a full and final offer. with 2 choices 1 to accept my offer and cash my check or 2 refuse my offer and return my check. They cashed my cheque within a few days of getting it. then spent almost 12 months saying it hadn't been cashed

 

Cheers Dave

[blencathra]

28.12.2007 I got a phone call from Capital one in India on my mobile phone . Now i have never given them my number. and they have the bloody cheek to ask about the payment i havnt send, when they cant be bothered to reply to my letters I and then i get another statement with a late payment charge added. It seems the battle has begun and the war of attrition has well and truly started. . The 32 days are up on the 7th January 2008 then i shall remind them that are are committing and illegal act . Forward and on wards we go send in the cavalry Cheers Dave

[blencathra]

28.12.2007 I got a phone call from Capital one in India on my mobile phone . Now i have never given them my number. and they have the bloody cheek to ask about the payment i havnt send, when they cant be bothered to reply to my letters I asked to be transfered to a Uk number and they refused How could i get the problem resolved by an Indian call centre. Then i get another statement with a late payment charge added. It seems the battle has begun and the war of attrition has well and truly started. . The 32 days are up on the 7th January 2008 then i shall remind them that are are committing and illegal act . Forward and on wards we go send in the cavalry Cheers Dave

[ian1969uk]

Capital One are renowned for doing this. If you are in dispute with them they remove online access to the account and if you phone, they won't put you through to Customer Services unless you make a payment.

 

Just keep it all in writing.

[desiuser]

Can anyone point me to the 12 days rule ? Is this a new rule as I think its 40days for Data Protection.

Has anyone got a template for asking information with CCA.

If I can get some of the cards written off it will would help a lot I have tried negotiate with the lender but they were playing hard ball and making charges. In my desperation I have found this forum. I am hoping to bring the balances down even if I can get them frozen it would be an achievement.

[lexis200]

Hi desiuser

 

The 12 working days rule is for making a request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - you'll see it abbreviated to 'asking for a CCA' or similar through the site. This costs £1. The letter template for it can be found here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html (letter N).

 

I have started using the one below though as I found the creditors were missing stuff off then saying I hadn't asked for it. I can't remember who wrote the letter below, but it's worked for me (so thank you whoever it was!) It's up to you which you use - they're both fine.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

With reference to the above agreement, I require that you provide me a true copy of the credit agreement

 

I am aware that section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sets out clearly what is required to comply with my request and quote “shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it” For clarification I require a copy of the agreement, any terms and conditions from the time when the agreement was executed, together with a copy of current terms and conditions and a copy of the cancellation notice if the agreement refers to “Your Right to Cancel” within it. I also require a statement of account as laid out within Section 78(1). If there weren’t any terms and conditions then please confirm this in your response

 

I am entitled to receive the information on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00, which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I note that section 172 outlines that statements by creditors are binding where made under inter alia section 78(1) and I take this to be that any reply made in response to this request is binding upon you. Therefore you should ensure that all documents requested are supplied. Any missing documents will be considered not part of the agreement and could therefore affect the enforceability of anything you send.

 

I understand that Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1569) at regulation 2 sets out the required time frame for compliance with this request as being 12 working days from receipt

 

Should you fail to comply with my request as outlined above, I shall consider the account in dispute. I am aware that where a creditor fails to supply the requested information the creditor’s rights to enforcement are restricted until such time as they comply. I am also aware that there are certain terms that are required to be within the “Agreement” and should these terms be mis-stated or not present the agreement can be rendered unenforceable in law.

 

Notwithstanding the above, I note that the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) at Regulation 3 allows the signature box and signature, to be omitted in a copy document, but that the copy document must be a ‘true copy’. This means identical in both form and content (including all prescribed terms as required), to the signed, executed, original agreement, as presented or sent to the debtor for signature.

 

I respectfully request that you provide a copy of the original agreement signed by me that you hold on file, and while I accept that you can omit the signature box for the purposes of compliance with my request, you will be aware that any challenge to the agreement in court would require the signed copy of the original agreement.

 

If you still reject this, please provide clarification on the status of the Original Credit Agreement and confirm either that you hold the original signed agreement on file, or a copy of it on microfiche, or that you no longer hold the file

 

I look forward to receiving this information within the time frames as indicated above

 

Yours faithfully

The Data Protection one is an SAR, and this is 40 calendar days, but it includes much more information, so useful if you are going for charges or trying to find out more about your account/agreement. This is the one that costs £10. The complete request letter I use is this:

DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998

SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Mr/Mrs xxxx

 

Account No: xxxxx

 

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to personal credit cards.

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transaction and charges relating to my history with your organisation, INCLUDING credit cards and payment protection insurance. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable.

 

To clarify, I would be grateful if you would provide the following for the credit card account I have with your organisation, details as below:

 

- Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any original documents and their original associated terms and conditions you hold in support of the same.

 

- A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to my credit card account held with your organisation.

 

- Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

 

- Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email, telephone or any other format which you have entered into with me, or any other individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.

 

- Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

 

- Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £10 to cover your fee.

 

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH ANY PART OF THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROCECTION.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Do not sign anything you send to the bank/DCA with your actual signature, in order to avoid any temptation they may have to 'Blue Peter' documents to make it look as though you agree to them.

 

This is very important if you're asking for your agreement under the CCA1974, as you really don't want them to be able to turn up a signed, enforceable agreement if there wasn't one to begin with. They do not need a sample of your signature to send this out, whatever they say, but to try and avoid the extra paperwork in telling them this, it's best to put something down.

 

Some people print rather than sign, others change their signatures (add in letters, make it very different etc) to stump them, or print a background box with colours/patterns to make the possibility of photoshopping very tricky. I like to use a digital version as it means I don't forget and accidentally use my own sig. I use this site if you want to have a look - vLetter Free Font Demo Online - Try Our Real Cursive Handwriting Fonts

 

 

I hope this helps you a bit. Do remember if you start anything with any creditors to begin your own thread so that you can get help personal to your problems.

 

 

The best advice at the moment for you though would be to take a few days to look at as many threads as you can in order to try and familiarise yourself with some of the tactics used by creditors in order to arm yourself against them (you will be overwhelmed to begin with but things will start sinking in). Knowing that they are doing the same thing to many many other people can be a big help when you feel you're at the bottom. More so when you find that they are frequently empty threats, and someone will have written a suitably scathing response letter that you can use to help you along!

 

 

Lexis:)

[Dav1234]

Hi

 

I sent my letter nearly 14 days ago now and I have heard nothing back. I enclosed my £1 postal orders as required. What would be the next stage in the process?

 

Thanks

 

D.

[talbot649]

Hi there,

 

I've been reading a lot of forums on this topic and was hoping somebody may be able to summarise what to do if a creditor has no signed CCA for a credit card?

 

In my case, my partner has a credit card taken out in the late nineties, and we haven't borrowed anything on it for five years.

 

Barclaycard have given us awful customer service when we spent 12 months recently trying to get them to correct our address as statements were being sent to a household halfway across the country. We have now had enough!

 

We sent the CCA request letter on the 3rd November and have received no response back.

 

Today we sent the letter on this forum stating that the account is now in dispute, no further payments will be made, no credit reference information should be added etc.

 

If they can produce no CCA, and start collecting heavily when the first payment is mssed (January 2009), what exactly are our rights? Can we simply state this is unenforceable, and pursue them to remove anything on the credit report?

[talbot649]

Can anyone help?

[MarkieMark]

77.—(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed sum credit, within the

prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and

payment of a fee of 15 new pence, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed

agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a

statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information

to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

(b) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but

remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the

date when each became due: and

© the total sum which is to became payable under the agreement by the debtor,

and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of

determining the date, when each becomes due.

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the

amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (l)©, he shall be taken to comply with

that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under

the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the

debtor, or

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that

subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

[lexis200]

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

This no longer applies, it's just the 12 days, there's no longer a criminal element.

[lexis200]

Hi Talbot

 

I'm sorry you're having problems. You'll find you will get a better response if you open up your own thread. This way other members will be able to give you personal advice and it won't be lost in a thread that may not be relevant to you.

 

With regards to what has happened so far though, without a cca they're stuffed for the time being. You do not have to pay them whilst the default continues, however they can still continue collection activities. They can't carry out enforcement though, which I would argue is them collecting/issuing defaults etc, but they will say is only court proceedings.

 

If they really have no cca then they can not prove you own the debt. From there you can go on to (hopefully) have it declared unenforceable by a court, or possibly get them to write off the debt/accept a very small f+f offer as a gesture of your goodwill.

 

If they turn up with a cca, you really will need to start a thread and get it scanned and posted up so that other people with far more knowledge than me can advise you!

 

Either way, have a good read around on here and get a bit of info on how they will deal with you. Read through the other b/c threads and get a feel for the sort of letters/phonecalls they will start sending when they realise you haven't paid. This will at least give you more confidence when replying to them, as you'll know they are templated letters and phonecalls made using scripts - this will help alleviate a little of the anxiety you may be facing.

 

HTH.

 

Lexis:)

[desiuser]

Hi guys

I have sent of the letters with £1 and so far some have acknowledged the the letter.

First Direct want to have a new agreement signed even though we are on a payment plan and say if we don't sign the agreement they will pursue us for the balance. I see these as bully tactics and not going to let them win.

I have response to SAR from HBOS credit Card and they have sent me a copy of the form signed in 1994 and nothing else. The application for under the Consumer Credit Act refers to T&C overleaf for which they not sent me a copy.

What should I do now ?

 

Desiuser

 

PS I am using this forum for advice and action and not paying anyone I would rather this forum benefit then some comboy companies.

[lexis200]

Hi desiuser

 

It sounds to me like fd are having a bit of a paddy if they are trying to bully you with this. Would I be right in assuming they haven't supplied you with an agreement?

 

If they haven't and their time is up, on the face of it it looks quite promising as they seem to be attempting to cover up their initial lax paperwork.

 

HBOS need to get you the rest of the information asap. If they are out of time already, you can either directly report them to the ICO (Information Comissioners Office), or (this is my personal preference, although I'm sure there are a raft of people who will say it's not right, it has worked for me), write to HBOS and give them an extra 7 days to comply or you will report them to the ICO. When I did this with MBNA, it resulted in the SAR being sent by Special Delivery on the day they received my letter:D

 

I think you're right in trying to work it out using the forum rather than paying companies - it is all completely do-able! The only thing to remember is that it is very unlikely to be an easy ride, and you will have days when you feel it's not working. Just keep trying though, and come on here for support, either moral or practical, as that will help you enormously.

 

Lexis:)

 

ps - you will find you get more help if you start up your own threads on your various accounts. It just allows people to give personal advice to you, rather than getting lost in a general thread.

[tobs127]

hi can anyone tell me who the p/order has to be made out to when you request your copy of the c.c.a. you were supposed to have signed is it the company or the bank you make cheques out to thanks

tobs

[Suzannah234]

hiya everyone

 

I requested a copy of my credit card cca on 19 October but forgot to send it recorded delivery. However my cheque was cashed yesterday, but that means nothing, as most of the time cheques are cashed anyway, right? Should I send another letter recorded delivery or wait and see if they do reply within 12 days and 2?

 

Many thanks.

 

s xx

Suze

[lexis200]

Nope, if they've cashed your cheque they've got your letter and it's their own problem if they haven't read it!

 

Just wait for the allotted time then (probably) send them a letter chasing it up!