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Ok people I need a bit of help, I am in a rather difficult situation.

I was suppose to return to australia back in early feb for work... so I filled in my form from inland rev and set it off saying i wasn't coming back.

I had a great job paying good money lined up.

I went to book my ticket home to oz and found that my card was declined. strange I thought, I am suppose to have over 450 quid in my account.

Low and behold because my account had gone overdraw two months previous i had been slugged 90 pounds.

As a result no going home for work for me.

Now as if that isn't bad enough, because i had told IR I wasn't coming back I wasn't allowed to work untill the new financial year 5/4/07.

so from early feb to now i have had no money at all. I had to borrow money for food!!!

Now as a result of Lloyds incredible fees (i have never heard of fees this high anywhere in the world) I have lost my car in oz, my house payments are running behind but i have an arrangment with morgagers, I am getting court threats for my counsil tax etc etc etc.

I put my claim in as I am suppose to, now the court papers have been sent.

I am claiming for damages because I now have to rebuild the remains of my life, and start again.

I no longer have job in aus, or car. Just house and debt.

any tips you could provide here will help me heaps.

Will I win the damages as well as the fees?

How long is it going to take?

How do Lloyds proceed in their claims?

Can I proceed with my claim from Australia if I ever get there?

and any other info please.

Holding together only just at the moment.



Ps been reading some of the other wins etc great to hear some good news.

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hello aug,:p


well you have taken the first step by claiming your charges back.


i know you have filed at court so now it depends how busy your local court is to your date.


dont forget make 3 copies of everything.


good luck not that you will need it.:D


if you need any other advice dont forget to come into chat.

keep us up to date as i am claiming from lloyds as well.


take care



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Hi Aug,


Do you mean you've put your claim in without sending the initial letters? You say you've claimed for damages - which method did you use to file your claim? MoneyClaim Online or the N1 form? Have you thoroughly researched the damages aspect before filing your claim?


Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06


GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages



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Do you mean you've put your claim in without sending the initial letters?

I have done the initial letters the first one was initiated by my branch, The people there have been as helpful as they could possibly be. Alas this is completely out of their control. They are as angry as the rest of us, owing to the fact that they cop all the wrath of people like us. Gone are the days when the bank manager made the decisions.

You say you've claimed for damages - which method did you use to file your claim? MoneyClaim Online or the N1 form?

I used the money claim online system?

Have you thoroughly researched the damages aspect before filing your claim?

I have done as much research as I can. I have used this website as well as the fool website. I have rung a solicitor for information and he has been kind enough to give me some advice and information, But thats as far as he can go. If he did any more then he would have to charge me and well just getting enough money to exsist is a struggle at the moment.

Hence the reason I am here trying to get through this and once through it to help others.


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The run down on what I've done so far ;-

23/2/7 Went to see branch re the "charges" was told email was sent and fax as well to Birmingham. I was told I should have a response in a week.

1/3/07 I phoned the bank on the 0845 no. and after much chasing was told that there was a number for CSRC in Birmingham. Other email was sent by the CSRC in Glasgow telling them to contact me.

I phoned the number I was given and got a recorded message saying leave your detail we'll get back to you. I I did just that.

6/3/07 Still haven't had any sort of response from Birmingham yet. I went back to the branch and they once again emailed Birmingham and demanded that they respond to me.

7/3/07 Phoned again same as yesturday except that this time the person who I was speaking to said someone had accessed my account from there end.

8/3/07 phoned again left another message still no response.

9/3/07 requested statements from the branch as a precaution, I could see this was going to be dragged out.

12/3/07 I got a letter from Lloyds! about time. It was the standard letter "we have received your complaint" "we're sorry...."

I also got a phone call from someone in Birmingham CSRC!!! But far from being a happy thing, the guy I spoke to had no clue what was going on and said "mike" will call me back by 12 the next day. This is noted on my computer file in the bank, The branch people showed me at a later date.

13/3/07 Phoned Lloyds at 3pm asking when "mike" (no surname given) was going to phone back. no one could find any mike in the CSRC in Birmingham (hmm I thought)

14/3/07 Phoned Birmingham again but this time their answer phone was full, I couldn't leave a message and was hung up on. More Hmmm obviously they don't check their answer phone hence no one gets back to you.

15/3/07 I got a letter from CSRC in Glasgow saying They re sorry for the problems caused and have passed my details to my area head office. I had spoken to Glasgow on previous days and they were noting on the system the nightmare I was dealing with.

17/3/07 (sat) Got the response letter from from the bank "the bog off letter" they are in the right blah blah blah. Right finally can move to the next stage. The job in australia had well and trully gone now, all I could do was persue this. Oh yeah The letter said I should apply for and overdraft... I am suppose to have one but they never pushed the button when I opened the account, But anyway cause I am a "bad customer" it was declined. Why suggest it if you know I aint going to get it. Is there any logic in that bank?

19/3/07 Sent reply letter before action. I also warned them that due to my no longer having work here or in oz I was claiming compensation and they had 14 days to reply etc etc etc. I also reminded them that the longer they took the more exensive it would be.

2/4/07 Should have heard back today from the LBA, Nothing!

12/4/07 I put my claim online in today and it was late because i would give the bank a bit extra time incase the mail was slow. I also only got the money to do it today.

And so I wait and post and stress

Am i doing this the right way and is bad customer service part of SOP in Lloyds?


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I got an Intresting phone call from Lloyds Yesterday. They have given me a small credit for stuffing up a cheque clearing and also for giving misleading information about it. I guess there will be notes on the system at the bank now, I wonder if this will have any influence on their decission pay the claim or not. Something to show the judge if and when it goes to court. The MCOL is deamed to be delivered tomorrow. little nervous but doing alright.

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Hi can you explain how you arrived at your figure for compensation? and on what basis you are claiming compensation.


Please can you post your POC. Thanks.






I am not a legal expert my advice is given without prejudice and is purely my opinion only. If you are in doubt please seek professional advice.

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Hey all,

The way I have claimed compeansation for lost income at home in Australia. If I had been home in time I would have been earning $147k pa but thats gone so I have claimed based on the old job I did which I cold slot back into whenever. The way I have claimed the 400 pounds a week is based on my takehome pay of $1k per week. When I first raised the issue with the bank in Feb the exchnge rate was hovering aroung the $2.50 to the ound mark so I based my claim on that $1000 / 2.5 = 400. so I Have claimed 400 pounds per week from th3 23/2/07. When I entered the claim into MCOL I read that the claim is said to be issued 5 days after and they have untill 3/5/07 to respond. I have based my compensation claim up untill this date. should the bank wish to proceed further down the litigation track I will ask the judge when it is heard to extend the litigation till the date that it is settled.

Wish me luck, this case could have implications for all should I win.


PS What is a POC?

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POC is particulars of Claim. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/681-4-particulars-claim-n1.html#post3551

This is in the N1 you send to the court. A breakdown of the facts of your case. Have a read :)

Abbey - *SETTLED IN FULL!* ;)

-£445 refunded after one phonecall



Lloyds - Reclaiming Charges ***WON!***

-09/05/07 - Prelim delivered

-22/05/07 - LBA sent - no response

-11/07/07 - Filed at court

- 26/07/07 - Full settlement offer!!!! Donation made ;)



Next - Trying to Sue us with no agreement! :lol:

-29/06/07 - Defence filed

-16/08/07 - AQ filed

-19/09/07 - Claim struck out!! :p

HERE and continued HERE



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My POC was short and sweet as I did not have much room in the money claim online space.

This is it word for word as put in over the net.

The Defendant has imposed charges of £30

each day for 3 days each time the Claimant

has exceeded his overdraft limit. These

charges represent a penalty and do not

accurately reflect the Defendant's

administration costs. The total charges he

is claiming is £360. Further, they are

contrary to the Unfair (Contract) Terms Act

1977 s.4 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer

Contracts Regulations 1999. para. 8 and

sch. 2(1)(e). Further or alternatively,

they are unreasonable within the meaning of

the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

s.15. The claimant claims a further

£3828.57 Compensation due to lost income

due to unable to return to work abroad.

and the claimant claims £155, interest,


The plan of attack is to get the banks to identify the true cost of their charges in the same way many people have done before. Then after it is revealed that the charges are unfair, I will then present the evedence of my employment I can go back to and the evedence to show that i could have earnt alot more had I been able to return to australia when I was suppose to.

Any other ideas?


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Hey all, Update from here is that today I had lunch with two solicitors and a board member of the OFT. Interesting conversation regarding the OFT's intrest in the battle against the banks. His thoughts were that the OFT was still unsure if they were within their juristiction to get involved with the battle. The two solicitors said that my battle plan is sound and that they are intrested in the result.

Hopefuly I might be able to get help from OFT for all of us and that I might be able to get some more information to help all in the battle. I will keep everyone posted on the any further discussions I have.

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Cool ..... :p ..... Keep us all posted.


If I have been helpful, PLEASE click the scales



You may receive differing advice as people have had different experiences. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I offer is done so informally, without prejudice & without liability.



I WON !!!!






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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your claim as it stands at the moment seems to me to be a disaster waiting to happen. For a start its not pleaded properly so you'll most likely need an amendment.


The compensation aspect is not valid in this type of claim - as I understand it, claims of this type are not designed to compensate the losses of the claimant, but to strip the gains of the defendant, and again, you've offered no particularisation for the compensation figure or any basis in law or fact whatsoever for why it should be paid.


Damages is something which you may want to look into, but it brings a much higher level of complexity to the claim, and thus a higher level of risk. It would almost certainly put your claim into the fast-track rather than the small claims track, which carries costs exposure if you were to lose.


My advice to you at the moment would be to file an amendment using proper POC as were linked above, whilst at the same time removing the compensation aspect of the claim. Whilst I would'nt directly advise you not to claim damages, I would'nt actively encourage you to either, as I don't know enough about that type of claim. If its a route you plan to go down you need to do some proper research regarding the basis in law for such a claim, and understand that in all likelyhood you would have to argue it in court - Lloyds would highly likely pay the charges and contest the damages.

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Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Thanks Gary, I have spoken to quiet a few people about this now and am getting more confused as time goes by. The friend of mine who is on the OFT board (is barrister as well) said that he seams to think that since the court has excepted the claim that they could incorporate the damages in the in the total amount, Further discussion with two solictiors who were also here on sunday, said that the bank may ask for it to be reissued but I can either do this or apply to the court stating that I already have issued the claim and the basis for the claim and that further information will be incorporated in the the brief when sent to the bank. We'll see.

Today though, I got a letter from Lloyds offering a minute amount of money compared to the main claim. When I checked my bank balance the money wasn't there. The letter stated that;

"I can see that some of the unauthorised overdrafts have been fairly minor (ie their fees put me into the red most of the time) and in view of this I am refunding a further 180 (sorry aussie computer I don't have a pound key) again purely as a guesture of good will."

I rang Lloyds who passed my datails on and in a rare display of customer service, actually called me back.

I explained who I had been talking to and that it was in their interest to prevent this going further, The lady on the other end said that this was far beyond her skope and skill and refered me via email to senior managment within the bank. She said I should receive a phone call from managment tomorrow. But even she said in an off the record statement that she wished that the banks would just give in and refund all the claims and start again. So its not just the courts and all of us that's had enough of this nightmare.

Oh and Gary, The publicity raised by the compensation case in the media really hurt the banks. Do you think that Lloyds would risk the bad publicity should I take this to court, They have gotten away fairly lightly in the media so far, besides the huge finacial burden it would put them under?If I did have to argue the case in court I could also use that is similar that is before the courts at the moment, and in particular the fact that the bank offered 4000 in compensation in an out of court settlement to the claimaint but he declined saying he wanted a precident to be set.

I am going to ask my freinds if they would be able to dig up any case history of a simliar type of claim, where as a result of an institution's error damages was paid to compensate for lost revenue.

I appreciate the feedback, I guess I will have to play this one by ear as my claim differes significantly to others.


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Do you think that Lloyds would risk the bad publicity should I take this to court


In my opinion yes I do! Seeing as there seems to be little legal basis for your claim for compensation.


Having said that I also applaud people who are prepared to take on issues that have a passion for - no matter how misguided!

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Actually there is a legal basis for the claim, The claim is for the the fees to be refunded but the comp is for the result of them taking the fees in the first place.

If the bank knowingly takes money that it is illegal for them to remove then the claimaint may claim for damages as a result, In a way it is the same as asking for any default notices to be removed. They have directly caused a finacial loss, therefore can be made by a court to be acountable for the loss. But this will be for my friends to argue should I get to court.

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Not exactly sure of the wording of the the law, but I do know from people in the know that no institution or person is allowed to cause undue finacial loss due to illegal or inappropriate actions.

in the same manner that the bank at one stage were considering a counter claim against people on the basis of finacial loss for the banks having unauthorised overdrafts. They never made it to court because once again if they did they would have to disclose there fee structure.

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Maybe it would have been a good idea to have thought of this before issuing a claim?

I do have a brain and yes I do think, I have a pretty stong legal team advising me on this. This maybe considered a test case. But that is for the judge to decide. I do have phone call due tomorrow from very high up within Lloyds. I should then be able to accertain the banks views on the claim.

What basis would you consider that a claim not be condidered by the courts?

Is there a legal rebutle for this claim?

The court has accepted the claim it is for the bank to defend, what legal basis could they argue back with?

I do think about things before they happen.

The main diffence between my claim and others is that the bank through its actions have prevented my employment at home. just like if you work and some one hurts you or prevents you from getting to work then they become liable for any loss as a result. This is why complanies and self employed people get professional indemnity & personal Liability insurance, to protect themselves.

But if I win great. if they settle, great. If I loose then I stay here for much longer and loose pretty much everything. I have to try.

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This is one of the rare times where I will wish someone luck - you are going to need it.


Do not hold you hopes up too high about the banks phoning you back tomorrow with something positive. The banks are faceless organisations and you are highly unlikely to get anywhere with them through phone calls.


If your claim get allocated to the fast track then let us know and seek advice from your legal friends. If you loose Lloyds' legal costs are likely to exceed the value of your claim and you are exposed to these.


Anyway, I reiterate good luck.

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I'm not going to spend a great deal of time on this, but I would again refer to my post above. Your claim for compensation, in my view, is invalid - not to mention embarrisingly pleaded.


You seem to be confused between consequential loss, compensation and damages. Each are seperate remedies with totally different legal meanings. Compensation and consequential losses are not available in restitutionary claims.


As it stands at the moment the bank have grounds for applying to strike out your claim, and rest assured this they will do. There is no basis in law for your "compensation" claim.

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Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Thanks guido and Gary, I will keep on track with the claim and see what the banks respond with (if they do at all). I will let you know how it all goes. I will keep posting on here to see how it all progresses. They may move for a strick out but the courts should very well ask for more information before they do this.

Seems like a battle but I enjoy a good fight.

Oh by the way, the particulars of claim is exaclty that its not pleading the case yet is it, I thought that was done it court. I would have thought that from the wording that you are stating what your claiming and why, not nessasarly stating your basis for the claim at this stage.

Should the court say I have to claim for the consquential loss or other then I will proceed as directed by the court.

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A claim for compensation as you propose would have to be based in Tort law, and it would have to be pleaded properly.


Once again, your claim will not succeed as it stands.


Oh by the way, the particulars of claim is exaclty that its not pleading the case yet is it, I thought that was done it court. I would have thought that from the wording that you are stating what your claiming and why, not nessasarly stating your basis for the claim at this stage.

Look up CPR 16.4. Your POC should be a concise statement of the basis of your claim in fact, and disclose its basis in law. Your's patently does not do this. Stylised particulars are not compliant with CPR 16.


See this thread and particularly the "amending a claim" section - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47344-ltsb-defence-claim-too.html


Good luck.:)

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!



Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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