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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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GOT A COURT DATE? Important, please read......


GaryH
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Yes, actually - would you mind e-mailing it to me again? I've gone and bloomin well lost it somehow!!:rolleyes:

 

I can then add it to post #1. I've also updated it with some other new stuff in the last couple of days you may have noticed.

 

 

No problem. Hopefully you have received it now. :)

amber_ellie :)

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I have received a notice of allocation to the small claims track (hearing) on the 16th July. It says it is a back to back system which means it has been block listed. I have collected most of the information that has been asked for in this thread. I do not have the terms and conditions and am unable to get them from the archive site, can I get them from elsewhere. We were with Lloyds for years. Secondly do I need to send in all the statements or will the ones with the charges on them be enough. I have them all, just thinking about the photocopying of them all. The expert witness part, is it enough to have a completed copy of the witness statement or have I got this wrong. Sorry to do it on this thread but I don't know how to create my own. Also what does pm mean. Sorry there's a lot of questions, I feel panicky about it all but my motto is 'feel the fear and do it anyway' just want to be prepared.

Jill

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Jill,

 

PM = Private Message. Click on a user's underlined hyperlink, and a new screen will offer you the chance to send an email within CAG. Some overburdened Mods have their inboxes regularly overflowing, and any user can refuse to accept incoming mail.

 

Your are the claimant making the running, focussing only on specific charges. I see no reason to laboriously photocopy irrelevant pages of statements, unless there is any suggestion that any previous charges may have been manually refunded already, on a different page to where it was levied. If Lloyds want to make that defence, they will have to supply the evidence, but it would not look good I think, for them to make a point and score on it.

 

I also bank with Lloyds, but not claiming right now, as I have a large business loan and cannot afford to wake up the sleeping dog. The other day I sauntered into the nearest Lloyds branch I have been using (not my home branch), and in a most nonchalant manner asked for T&C for current and business account. The Enquiries Lady vanished into the depths of the bank and came back 10 minutes later, I was to make contact with my home branch (which I am not going to).

 

I definitely got the impression instructions have gone out from Head Office to all branches, on the correct way to respond to T&C requests. I did NOT get the impression that, if approached, my home branch would stonewall and refuse T&Cs to which as a partner in the banker-customer relationship I was entitled. I had the impression that the correct vintage T&C would have been downloaded by Lloyds for me. However to cover the intervening years, numerous Variations to the agreement would also come into the picture.

 

Possibly Lloyds would like the prospect of an eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation with the manager as a reminder to the customer -- is conflict escalation really wanted?

 

Jill, I see no reason why you should not try with your home branch if you are close to it, and find out what Lloyds H.O. instructions are.

 

 

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Hi everyone.

I have just read "lloyds TSB Act 1998" on the internet, there is a setion relating to chargers but was unable to understand any of it or wether it was even relevant, however i was not awere that banks had their own acts of law. we live and learn.

pen

:x if i have been off any help to you please click my scales

 

cases won

28th July Single Claim for bank charges against LTSB, £6,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement

 

18th July Joint Claime against LTSB £7,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement.

 

 

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Hi

 

I have my court date at Trowbridge on 31st August and whilst I can put together the bundles (with the help of your site - many thanks!), I am actally emigrating in early July. Therefore I cannot possibly attend the court.

 

ShouldI send everthing to all parties now and explain my position? I feel that if I do this then I am leaving myself wide open to them winning as I canot put in a defence. (I did state on the AQ that I ould be out of the country after the end of June?)

 

I have court dates for 2 out of 3 of my claim. The other one they have settled aready?

:|

Any help much appreciated!

Thanks

Ozgirl

:confused:

Oz Girl - in transit!

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Just getting my bundle ready today.

 

Do I need to print off all off these

 

Analysis of Unfair Terms in Schedule 2

 

Plus this -

 

Scots Law commission report

 

Or is it just certain pages I need.

 

also is it wotrh including the Australian Report in my bundle?? I havent included it in my witness statement so if I do use the report do I need to amend my statement.

 

thanks

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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If you are going to include Nicole Rich's Aus Report, then suggest you also point out it has been used as admissible before in Oxford court on 21NOV2006 (barcote-v-Egg):

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/93383-help-link-australian-default-2.html?highlight=barcote#post895622

 

Perhaps more convincing than an academic paper (even one sponsored by Aus Federal Government) are the T&Cs under my signature from Dublin banks quoting £3 penalty charges, in contrast to Abbey's £39. We live in a globalised world now, with Dublin only a £50 Ryanair flight away. I would suggest any judge would be 70% probable to have been to Dublin as I have, so he is likely to raise an eyebrow and form his own opinions, while the bank barrister squirms.

 

GL.

 

 

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If you are going to include Nicole Rich's Aus Report, then suggest you also point out it has been used as admissible before in Oxford court on 21NOV2006 (barcote-v-Egg):

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/93383-help-link-australian-default-2.html?highlight=barcote#post895622

Thats interesting MM, thanks. Although I was aware of the barcote case I didn't know that. Theres always been a bit of doubt in my mind over whether it would be classed as admissable or not, particularly in the Small Claims Track, so thats good to know.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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so I take it I shouldnt bother including the Australian report.

 

So do I have to include all off these two reports or just certain pages.

Analysis of Unfair Terms in Schedule 2

 

Plus this -

 

Scots Law commission report

 

 

 

And Mistermind the 2 links in your sig didnt work.

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Dublin banks £3 charge links (they move periodically):

 

http://www.accbank.ie/ul_fees_charges.html

 

http://www.aib.ie/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=ROIPersonalPortal/AIBContent_C/pp_article&c=AIBContent_C&cid=1136826345174&channel=P004

 

Aus Report:

 

BankFodder went to a lot of trouble to get the details of barcote-v-Egg 21NOV2006 judgment read to him over the phone, so BankFodder might still have that case number in Oxford Court, as it was such a rare case ending with a court ruling nominating a penalty charge price.

 

It is not definitively clear whether Egg's Nelson St Clare was in court, or it was more like Berwick-v-Lloyds without Lloyds. The judge did rule in detail however, and barcote won, thanks in no small measure to his Aus and USA academic costings. I think basically the judge upheld the Dunlop-v-Garage 1915 principle, but they struggled to assess Egg's true cost price, settling in the end for a compromise guesstimate.

 

There is little doubt barcote's Aus and USA evidence was ruled admissible and was pored over favourably by the judge, as barcote presented little other supporting evidence.

 

 

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i have a court date of 26th July (hertford).

 

statements requested in december 2006.

letter sent requesting £561.05 for one account and £578.15 for the other on 6th March.

Nothing from lloyds.

letter threatening court action sent to Llloyds on 26th March for both accounts.

Court proceedings undertaken - 17th March.

Notification of transfer of proceedings from court to me - 11th may

then notification of allocation to the small claims track hearing - 22nd May and a court date of July 26th.

 

Mine seems to be taking rather a long time and i have not had any offers at any point. All the banks letters were out of synch with mine and i am wondering if i have a court date because they were swamped with applications. I know i have to submit my papers 14 days before the 26th july, but i'd rather not have to go to court at all.

 

Any tips or thoughts as to why a)mine has dragged out so long or b) why i have a court date without even a whiff of a settlement option.

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You need to start a thread of your own by clicking here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=11

 

Title it "you v Lloyds TSB - court date received" or something like that. Reproduce the directions (from the notice of allocation) in the first post and someone will help you.

 

If your thread slides over to the next page without being answered then come back here and I'll take a look.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hi SP, one off my cases has taken the same time as yours. ie statements sent for in Dec and the hearing is on the 18th July. no correspondence form the bank or their solicitors in relation to it so don't worry, some are quicker then others thats all, July is not that long off and one good piece of advice I got was to consider the claim as being in a very high interest account. that should cheer you up, it did me:)

:x if i have been off any help to you please click my scales

 

cases won

28th July Single Claim for bank charges against LTSB, £6,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement

 

18th July Joint Claime against LTSB £7,800 WON with CI to date of Judgement.

 

 

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hi, i cant get anyT&C from the wayback site, i have got some from another thread but they just seem to be for a card not the whole account, are these any good? i need some from 2000 and some from 1990. anyone got any ideas/

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Ok,I really want to get my bundle finished off tonight as it has to be in soon. I have a few questions and would be very very grateful if anyone can help.

 

firstly, should I include the Austalian report in my bundle? If so what do I need to add to my witness statement??

 

2, If I include the Australian report do I need to include the scottish report??

 

3, Do I need to print of the whole of the analisys of the unfair terms schedule 2 or just certain pages??

 

4, does anyone have the link for the early day motion from the house of parliment??

 

5, Do I include the information that mistermind gave about charges only being about £3 in Dublin?? This to me seems like a good argument against lloyds in particular as even if they are fees rather than penalties this surely proves they are dispropotionate. Also if I do add this to my bundle,again how do I include this in my witness statement. I dont want to mess it up by saying that they are fees??

 

Thanks very much in advance to anyone that can help.

 

matt.

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Ok,I really want to get my bundle finished off tonight as it has to be in soon. I have a few questions and would be very very grateful if anyone can help.

 

firstly, should I include the Austalian report in my bundle? If so what do I need to add to my witness statement??

 

2, If I include the Australian report do I need to include the scottish report??

 

3, Do I need to print of the whole of the analisys of the unfair terms schedule 2 or just certain pages??

 

4, does anyone have the link for the early day motion from the house of parliment??

 

5, Do I include the information that mistermind gave about charges only being about £3 in Dublin?? This to me seems like a good argument against lloyds in particular as even if they are fees rather than penalties this surely proves they are dispropotionate. Also if I do add this to my bundle,again how do I include this in my witness statement. I dont want to mess it up by saying that they are fees??

 

Thanks very much in advance to anyone that can help.

 

matt.

 

Matty

 

See this post by GuidoT

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-906900.html

 

PM

  • Haha 1

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Gary, I'm just getting my bundle sorted now and i have printed off the witness statement from page 1. Is this paragraph supposed to say the A&L or should it be changed to lloyds.

 

40. If the charges are services, there must be a correlation between the service provided and the cost. The cost of Alliance & Leicester’s charges has increased substantially and indiscriminately during the time the account has been in operation. The defendant has repeatedly been requested to provide details of the costs of its charging process and has each time declined to do so. Further, at a conservative estimate their have been at least 300 claims of this nature brought against the defendant in the last 12 months. In a significant proportion of these cases orders have been made obliging the disclosure of these costs and each time these orders are breached by the defendant. If the defendant avers its charges are reasonable within the meaning of section 15, I would contend that it is incumbent upon it to justify the price by producing evidence of its actual costs.

 

sorry if i sound daft but its 3am and I am desperatley trying to get this sorted. thanks.

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Ooops! Yes your right, sorry. I modified it and added bits for someones A&L SofE, then just copied and pasted the improved version back here - I did check I'd changed it all back but obviously not!

 

Thanks, I've corrected it.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hi Gary- got court appearance this friday and heard nothing with nothing credited to my account-also I have been called into work that day on extra shift(fireman) but the account is in both my wife and my names- would it be ok if only she turned up?? any help appreciated as this court thing seems bit scary-give me a fire any day!!

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Right last minute check list, if anybody can think of anything ive missed or can add anything useful please do.

 

In my bundle I have:

 

Witness Statement (as of page 1 in this thread)

Correspondance from the court

Correspondance to/from lloyds and [problem]

List of charges supplied from lloyds

a latest schudule of charges

relevant case laws

early day motion from H.o.P

Dunlop v New garage

Martin Orton letter and some overdraft T&Cs also the Dublin banks charges rates that show them charging about £3(courtesy of mistermind)

Peter Mcnamara transcript

UTCCR,UTCA,SOGA

analysis of unfair terms

Australian report

OFT report

Scottich law comission report on penalty charges.

 

This is the order I have entered them into my bundle. A couple of things i'm a little bit unsure off is,

 

1, I havent put anything in my witness statement about the Dublin banks, do I need to??

2, Is the scottish law report relevant and has anyone else included this.

 

If anyone can help I would be very grateful, I am starting to feel as if I can see the finishing line and winning post :) .

 

thanks.

matt

Lloyds settled in full

£4010.02:D

 

Halifax CC settled

£417.00 :D

 

Lloyds PPI

£3672.15 Refunded off loan :D

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Persons enclosing Dublin banks £3 charge T&C in their submissions might as well be armed with additional information, in case a shocked judge asks supplementary questions.

 

 

Dublin vs Belfast

 

Whereas Eire banks charge £3, Ulster banks even a few miles north of the border charge exhorbitant UK rates e.g. £38, most of them being owned by mainland UK banks, see tracey_avery posting #17 below:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/94391-ciderbrian-bank-ireland.html#post878861

 

Dublin vs London

 

Eire's leading Allied Irish Bank charges £3 in Dublin, but AIB GB in London charges no less than £20, and similar in Belfast. If prices skyrocket when passing a border, what does that say about price fixing by national cartels? This is an area susceptible to heavy libel lawsuits, so tread carefully.

 

AIB London charges are unfortunately not shown in online T&C, but may well be shown in printed T&C advertised as available from AIB London branches. I do not live in London, but anybody who does, or is interested could try and pick one up, while posing as an interested account opener, from one of the following branches. But please, not to alarm AIB GB. Already Lloyds branches have stopped giving out T&Cs to casual enquirers.

 

http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/find/business/business_numbers.publisha?PCD=&REQ=20&RNG=xloc&PageBeginCount=1&PagingBack=N&PageResultType=subscribe&PreviousClassCode=&PreviousAreaCode=&PreviousName=aib&Searched=Y&Paging=N&SearchType=bus&NAM=aib&LOC=London+&STR=&AdImage=Ad1.gif&PreviousLocation=london

 

 

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Hi Gary- got court appearance this friday and heard nothing with nothing credited to my account-also I have been called into work that day on extra shift(fireman) but the account is in both my wife and my names- would it be ok if only she turned up?? any help appreciated as this court thing seems bit scary-give me a fire any day!!

Was she named as a claimant on the claim form? If so then yes, thats fine. If not then no.

 

Have you prepared your bundle? If not you need to prepare one ASAP to take with you on Friday. See post #1 of this thread and the links within for what to include.

 

Its unlikely that Lloyds will turn up to contest it so you should get default judgement - but clearly you need to prepare as if it were going to be seriously defended.

 

Witness Statement (as of page 1 in this thread)

Correspondance from the court

Correspondance to/from lloyds and [problem]

List of charges supplied from lloyds

a latest schudule of charges

relevant case laws

early day motion from H.o.P

Dunlop v New garage

Martin Orton letter and some overdraft T&Cs also the Dublin banks charges rates that show them charging about £3(courtesy of mistermind)

Peter Mcnamara transcript

UTCCR,UTCA,SOGA

analysis of unfair terms

Australian report

OFT report

Scottich law comission report on penalty charges.

Fine - athough if you check post #1 again I have added another few bits and pieces.

2, Is the scottish law report relevant and has anyone else included this.

Yes, its relevant in respect of disguised penalties and how they should be subject to the penalty provisions regardless of presentation.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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